@Bounce Entry and Exit wound on the fourth(?) shot gives away the height and position more easily, along with the close range execution done after. Unless he was really lucky with blood splatter or took time to clean up after himself there's Heelys marks all over the table and your palm-heel's potentially going to leave some pretty interesting bruising post-mortem. Someone with the know-how could make a decent guess for weapon, position and size off of the decapitation itself too. He was done in thirty minutes, didn't miss a single shot and killed every gunman in the room before they could return fire, plus the knife's not bloodied.

So you've got size, weaponry, the high degree of training and also a decent guess at the age unless you're a little person who particularly enjoys Heelys footwear. Fingerprints and DNA would've been useless anyways, he's likely not in any databases, certainly not under an identity of any significance and it'd be ridiculous for them to run a paternity test off of Bruce Wayne just in case. XD

A good bit of detail, but it still leaves the crime scene examiner with not much more than "kid" without any further identifying detail as to gender.

The Heelys were chosen to illustrate that he's 9-10 years old though.

<Snipped quote by Dblade26>
A good bit of detail, but it still leaves the crime scene examiner with not much more than "kid" without any further identifying detail as to gender.

The Heelys were chosen to illustrate that he's 9-10 years old though.

Or a dwarf. They're probably (even in Gotham) more likely to look for someone short before they go looking for a kid.

Or a dwarf. They're probably (even in Gotham) more likely to look for someone short before they go looking for a kid.

Now I'm trying to imagine Warwick Davis cast in lieu of Jason Statham in something like The Transporter.

<Snipped quote by Sep>

Now I'm trying to imagine Warwick Davis cast in lieu of Jason Statham in something like The Transporter.

That was my intention.

---

Jinxed my OOC theory.

I'd like to pose a question to the group for discussion:

Are teenage/child sidekicks a dated concept? Characters such as Robin were originally introduced to comics in order to give younger readers someone to relate with, but characters such as Spider-Man have proven that a young hero doesn't need to be a sidekick in order to succeed. So my question then becomes, if Batman or Captain America were introduced today would Robin/Bucky still exist?

Media such as the MCU Movie Captain America: The First Avenger have displayed an updated take with Bucky being Steve's friend growing up and an ally in war without having to dress in a costume. Likewise on Arrow we've seen two interpretations of Speedy/Arsenal with neither being necessarily a young sidekick but merely younger than Oliver and thus taken under his wing. Both Roy and Thea as presented on Arrow could handle themselves but benefit from Oliver's guidance.

So what are your thoughts?

Media such as the MCU Movie Captain America: The First Avenger have displayed an updated take with Bucky being Steve's friend growing up and an alley in war without having to dress in a costume.

They used even old Bucky to justify why no-one in the Avengers have a sidekick (Unless you count War-Machine as it looks like he's going to be very sidekick in Civil War. Same as Falcon).

I think Sidekicks can still be an important part to the story. Though they are certainly becoming out-dated. There's an element of the fact that the Hero has to look after them all the time that's become less and less popular with teenage heroes/sidekicks coming into their own element rather than in the shadows of whoever started that legacy.

They provide a very important part of story-telling but it doesn't work for everyone. DC as it is seems far more fond of adding legacies and sidekicks than Marvel however.

_{Superman even has a super powered freaking dog.}

Superman even has a super powered freaking dog.

Supergirl has a cat and a horse who sometimes turns into a man and romances her.
_{I don't write this stuff.}

But yes DC is far more fond of adding legacies than Marvel is. In recent years though DC has pulled back on them thankfully but they're still rather common. Batman is obviously the most notorious example and in my opinion the one that suffers from the least amount of updating. That said in the New 52 at least Dick and Co aren't quite as young. At least I don't think Dick was made into Robin at age 12 anymore (or at least I'm hoping not). I recall reading at one point that Batman went through his three Robins in about five years and if we say Dick is anywhere between 18 and 21 he would have been at least 13 to 16 when he first became Robin so how much of an improvement that is can be argued.

Demand created sidekicks and the lack of demand has ushered in their irrelevancy.

The superheroes of tomorrow won't have sidekicks because of how fundamentally the demographics of comic book readers have changed. Plus I think for the most part the tone of comic books have changed so much that they would be out of place. We accept the Robins of the world because they have been grandfathered in. Were a character like Batman to spring up tomorrow people would say it had jumped the shark if it introduced a scrappy, young teen sidekick.

That's not to say that legacy characters are done with - just that they'll likely either be adult "sidekicks" like Bucky and/or Falcon or in their late teens. That way you still get some semblance of a paternalistic relationship whilst not stretching the suspension of disbelief too much. (See: John Blake in TDKR)

<Snipped quote by Sep>

Supergirl has a cat and a horse who sometimes turns into a man and romances her.
_{I don't write this stuff.}

@Morden Man I expect to see you follow DCs example and do some weird stuff.

But yes DC is far more fond of adding legacies than Marvel is. In recent years though DC has pulled back on them thankfully but they're still rather common. Batman is obviously the most notorious example and in my opinion the one that suffers from the least amount of updating. That said in the New 52 at least Dick and Co aren't quite as young. At least I don't think Dick was made into Robin at age 12 anymore (or at least I'm hoping not). I recall reading at one point that Batman went through his three Robins in about five years and if we say Dick is anywhere between 18 and 21 he would have been at least 13 to 16 when he first became Robin so how much of an improvement that is can be argued.

I think one of the reasons Marvel goes with Legacies rather than Sidekicks is they had a bad run with Sidekicks back in the 30s/40s, and to be perfectly honest with good enough supporting characters there isn't really a need for Sidekicks. Marvel just tend to go "Oh we'll just throw this supporting character in instead". We haven't seen the last of Legacies or maybe older Sidekicks.

Though the young scrappy teens I think are pretty much done for, except as them training to become the next big heroes.

That's how I view it, though once again my experience with DC is limited. So I await someone to come with a better opinion than mine.

My personal opinion is that the whole young sidekick wouldn't work from a newly created character nowadays. The idea of a (supposedly) sane and mature adult putting a child in danger doesn't generally sit well with a lot of people. Having said that, it can work so incredibly well. Look at Kick Ass, while clearly a parody of Robin the character of Hit Girl is awesome and can fend for herself better than a lot of the other heroes out there. (If they introduce Robin in these new films, totally the approach I'd go for.)

In terms of Legacies, Arrow does it well enough with Speedy (to the point I could see Thea taking over the show if Stephen Amell wants to go) and it's looking like the Flash is gonna head in that direction eventually with Wally West. I would say though that it only works because they spend a lot of time on these characters in a way that most films and even comics can't.

@Morden Man I'd rather not see John Blake, to me that was a bad example of the movie wanting to have its cake and eat it too but that's probably a discussion for another time :P

I do think similar-age partnerships are the way it'll go, in the movies at least.

I would probably boycott any future Batman films if Robin went the way of Hit-Girl. I honestly don't see anything appealing about a violent, crude, foul mouthed and clearly psychologically damaged child. Mindy is literally a brain washed child soldier, we're Batman to do that to Dick, Jason, Tim etc I would have a very hard time seeing Bruce as a hero. I understand that Batman is at war but at the heart of it he does care for his boys. I would argue that Big Daddy does not care for Mindy since he essentially stole her away from her mother so he could live out his own personal fantasy by transforming her into Hit-Girl.

@Lord Wraith

Oh I'm not saying you bring that damaged, psychological wreck into a Batman film! I'm saying if you're going to have a Robin, don't make them the liability that Batman has to be saving every ten minutes. Make film-Robin capable of holding their own regardless of the situation, make them the sort of person who's been trained by Batman but can do it with a grin.

@TimeMasterX The worst part is there's no reason for the Robins not to be written like that. Dick is one of the world's best acrobats even at 12, plus who knows what other skills he could pick up at the circus? Knife throwing, slight of hand etc. Jason was born and raised in the streets and can hold his own on top of being street savvy. Tim is a genius and a potential Olympic level athlete before working under Batman. At least two out of three of the above determine Bruce Wayne is Batman without help. There's no reason for them to play 'Sidekick in Defense' other than plot demands it most of the time.

@Lord Wraith
Unfortunately their competence is more often than not sacrificed to make the villain more threatening. How many times has Robin been captured and nearly killed just so the villain can look better/more evil? Ditto for Jason's murder. It was at that point in comics when they were pushing everything to become darker and so they kill Robin in the most vicious way they can think of.

Sidekicks in the traditional sense, a very young hero living and working directly alongside a mentor, are a dying breed, true. More and more, the model has shifted to young, somewhat independent crimefighter who receives some training from the mentor, may utilize the same aesthetic, and generally teams up for the bigger threats.

Ditto for Jason's murder.

I feel like Jason's murder was highly effective at the time it was done but I honestly hate the fact that they resurrected him. I get that 'no one stays dead in comics' but I really though Jason being dead was great because he served as a warning. Now that's undone, same with Damian's death. It's well known I hate Jason but likewise it's also known that Damian is one of my favourite characters (who I for some reason forgot to name yesterday...) but I really feel that Damian coming back from death undermines the effect it had when he died.

Now to go off on a slightly different tangent, I don't think Superman coming back from death undermines it at all. This is because I see Superman as a Christ or Resurrection figure. And I know I'm not the only one who sees him this way, numerous media go out of their way to ensure they put the symbolism in your head. Heck 'Jor-El sent his own son to Earth to save its people' sounds awfully familiar. The 'S' on Superman's chest doesn't stand for 'Super', it doesn't mean 'Hope' in some alien language. It means 'Savior' because Superman came to save us from ourselves. So for that reason, I think Superman rising from his grave, rejuvenated and conquering death reinforces his themes as opposed to undermining them.

And hey if you want to run with the 'Hope' theme instead, Superman coming back just shows that 'Hope never dies.'

The sidekick is largely being done away with because of the target age of comics. Comics are no longer just for little boys. They are for everyone. And people want themselves represented. You have young to old and I think that's just fine. Not every super has to have a sidekick in order to be relatable.

Plus, no one wants the be that guy who has to get saved every other issue.

Someone go post :P

I got a Colossus post sitting waiting xD

I've got a lot of school work to catch up on in the next couple of days. My posting might actually start to slow down for a few days or so. I'm sure someone else's post though with the pace of this game.

@Sep Go ahead and post. The world's not going to come to an end if you do, I'm sure.