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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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@The Harbinger of FerocityBy the way you typed it I thought you didn't understand it, but I do legit apologize.

Anywho. I'm someone who isn't entirely white myself, and I can see your point and think that most minorities are riding the 'privilege train' way too much, and using it for excuses. However, it is factual that many people are born in positions that are less viable for advancement, which is something you did not talk about in your previous post, or this one, which is why I thought you were confused.

Look, a black person can go to a school and learn and graduate just like a white person. Sure. But black people have a much higher percentage of being born poor, and it's hard to get out of poverty once you're in it. Example:

It's much more common for an african american to be born in a poor family with little to no good guidance because your parents couldn't afford school because they didn't get the opportunity because they were black is not really your fault, and if you somehow don't 'find the courage and elbow grease' to grit your teeth, and pull yourself together enough to not help support your 6 sisters and 4 brothers who live in bad housing in order to advance yourself, then sure. You can join everyone else. However, then you need to try to get a job when you have a few white people getting your potential job because of their skin color...

Listen, if there's anyone who is can sympathize with being annoyed at liberals, it's me. I fucking go on tumblr. And I see enough radical leftists to go insane.

But that doesn't take away the fact that, even if a black person, or a woman, or anyone not a white male worked hard, they'd have hurdles white males wouldn't. You ask for them to prove they are worth it.

Why.

Why the fuck do they need to prove they are just as worthy of respect? What in all of creation makes it ok to make them prove themselves that extra mile?
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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You have very selective reading ability, @Penny. I clearly do not limit my statement or response to just those people. In fact, I believe I say something explicitly along the lines of and I quote;

These could apply to anyone, really - they are not exclusive or limited to.

Strange, it is almost as though I accounted for that argument! As if I have heard it before. If you do not want to be stereotyped as anything then do not be that thing. This becomes a problem in our day and age because there are a bunch of people running around, rushing to so called "social justice", claiming everyone but "white males" is under some kind of prejudice.

You do realize "white males" are not significant enough by themselves to utterly and wholly eclipse every other minor group in combination, correct? No less, by making this claim, you do realize this too is reverse discrimination that is somehow validated because of nebulous "privilege", right? Furthermore, this does not hold true accrosd the board at all. We have several white males in this very topic who are proof enough, living proof, that they are not living on the ritz.

This is a "feels good" argument because it feels good to blame others than overcome individual difficulties. Why change or adapt anything when I can just cry out, "He's so privileged! There is no way I can catch up in life!" and welcome applause as if I made some sort of profound revelation? It would be much too hard to do a self assessment, identify strengths and weaknesses and exploit them to my own advantage so I can achieve what I want.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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Literally everyone should be required to prove themselves. Respect should not be given, but earned.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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<Snipped quote by The Harbinger of Ferocity>

You now what is weird? White males don't have to do those things. Its almost as though they have some sort of... I dont know what the word would be. Damn if only there were a term that fit!


I love how suggesting that one group has an advantage suddenly becomes reverse discrimination. Your inability to even entertain the notion that other groups labor under different and additional burdens makes my point.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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We're talking about the fact that minorities are more likely to not be given opportunities, not how they use the terms. If you admitted they had it a little harder, you wouldn't need to give up your conservative card. I already said I think they say it way too much. But this isn't about your perception of their rhetoric, this is about that there is, statistically, a better chance for a white guy to get opportunity. No one is saying it's easy for them either. My two caucasion roommates (one of them being my best friend) got their jobs fair and square and they worked hard for them. And luckily, I look fairly light skinned enough to not have it commented on other than on occasion, so despite the fact I've lived in 5 different places and slept in living rooms and basements the past 7 years while working, I blame no one else for that.

This isn't about blame.

Do you sincerely think, that in america, minorites are afforded all of the same treatment and opportunities with the same ease as white men?
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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Why the fuck do they need to prove they are just as worthy of respect? What in all of creation makes it ok to make them prove themselves that extra mile?

As I said to @Penny, everyone has the responsibility to prove their worth. No one is excused from that. But if you really want to dispel people's mindsets, blow them away with individual qualities. Again, and I restate this, this should be the goal for anyone but especially those who think they are at a disadvantage.

If one is not willing to do something that extra mile, in any task in life, perhaps it better they might not do it at all, but that is beside the point. So to address the rest of your statement, here is my counterargument;

I do not care.

Seemingly heartless, I know, but giving anyone special treatment or added favor I find morally wrong. You can read it here from me in the past, but if there is to be any question on it, I simply am aloof to it. This is not to say I will not donate, assist or support, but that is under my own volition. I do not discriminate.

I can sympathize with having a bad start, having that scenario played out as you described it, but if you told me that was your life and what could you do to improve it, I would tell you, "Go join the military." People don't like to hear that option of course, just like they do not like to hear "Go apply for student loans, just be sure to finish your degree and do a stint of internship or volunteering to get on the job experience and possibly a way into that work place." I could sit here and rattle back arguments - I could even argue the reverse racism or misandry I have experienced because of "diversity" mandates where less qualified candidates were chosen over myself.

My point is, will be as well as I freely admit my mind will not be changed, that there is no shortage of fighting and clawing people need to do for what they want. The challenges aren't going to be the same so cease comparing them.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Literally everyone should be required to prove themselves. Respect should not be given, but earned.

Well I can agree with that, but that would mean everyone is equal to begin with. Which I would love to get behind.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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@The Harbinger of Ferocity I am not asking if you care, I'm just asking if you agree. Is it all equal for everyone. No one has said it isn't difficult for everyone. But is it equal? Just yes or no.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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<Snipped quote by Kratesis>
Well I can agree with that, but that would mean everyone is equal to begin with. Which I would love to get behind.


Every human life has equal value as a human being? Certainly.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Every human life has equal value as a human being? Certainly.

Noice.

Also a caveat, I haven't lived in a living room or basement in 3 years. It was just a few rough years after college ;P
I think moving a lot is my own fault tho...
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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Do you sincerely think, that in America, minorites are afforded all of the same treatment and opportunities with the same ease as white men?

Can you provide me with a place where these opportunities are any better? There are several places on this world where the caste system still exists by and large. To this I add that nothing can be or ever will be perfect, but the United States and what it represents in this area is damned close, if not almost perfectly on this mark. For added salt in the wound, as far as I am concerned, anyone who disagrees with that should attempt to live wherever they think this Utopia to be.

This "racism" and "privilege" game is not an argument I am going to take seriously; it certainly has no impact on those I find myself interviewing, instructing or supervising. Those who have or have not advanced did so under their own merit.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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I do not care.


Your caring or not caring does not change the fact that immigrants, people of color and women all face additional hoops which white males typically do not have to deal with.

That is privilege.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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As far as I am concerned, @POOHEAD189? Yes, and that is my answer. You know my philosophy on the matter from there and why I perceive it that way; that is the context to support my understanding.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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Do you sincerely think, that in america, minorites are afforded all of the same treatment and opportunities with the same ease as white men?


Can you provide me with a place where these opportunities are any better?


So no, but its worse other places? I'm glad we could finally come together on this.

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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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@Penny, I have told you long, long before that in my experience I have not witnessed anything of the sort. I still am and will be of the belief that individual qualities and personhood will define more than anything else. I do not believe white men have some magical special qualities others do not get - if they do, please refer me to them so I can claim what apparently rightfully belongs to me.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Can you provide me with a place where these opportunities are any better? There are several places on this world where the caste system still exists by and large. To this I add that nothing can be or ever will be perfect, but the United States and what it represents in this area is damned close, if not almost perfectly on this mark. For added salt in the wound, as far as I am concerned, anyone who disagrees with that should attempt to live wherever they think this Utopia to be.

I can agree America is a lot better than many would complain, yes. And no, things won't be perfect.
As far as I am concerned, @POOHEAD189? Yes, and that is my answer. You know my philosophy on the matter from there and why I perceive it that way; that is the context to support my understanding.

Well, that's all I needed. Appreciate the honesty.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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I will be brutally honest, even if it means bloodying the water, @POOHEAD189. I have neither shame not fear in my opinion or the points I take side in. Hopefully it gave you the insight you were looking for as well as my perception on the matter rather than any assumptions you may or may not have had.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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@The Harbinger of FerocityJudging someone is against my religion. While I vehemently disagree with you, it makes me sad. And I think changing your mind is fairly impossible, so that is that.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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@The Harbinger of FerocityJudging someone is against my religion. While I vehemently disagree with you, it makes me sad. And I think changing your mind is fairly impossible, so that is that.


Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Oh ok.
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