Recent Statuses

11 days ago
Current It's just another day of wishing I could regenerate like a comic book character, so I could rip out my spine and be done with this back pain. :D
1 mo ago
Welcome to Hell, and see you in Discord.
1 mo ago
Feeling that itch to write again. Not sure if this one will last, but might as well see where it'll take me.
2 mos ago
Like character, like creator.
1 like
2 mos ago
*flaps their lips with an exhalation deeper than the Marianas Trench* Alcohol.


catchamber (noun): Peculiar cybernetic sapient primate from a hypersonic lavaball.

Most Recent Posts

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So? Taxonomy is a fluid concept as constant changes appear, just as we add to our knowledge in other fields. This is again a bit of a "gee ya fucking think" moment.

What utility does believing in race and ethnicity exclusively provide? If it doesn't surpass the costs of the beliefs, it's time to ditch them altogether.
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The contents of the word atom are defined solely by humans. Ethnic variations are indeed very tangible. I only ignore what is in no way a point. If you lack the ability to make a point that is your problem.

The problem with race and ethnicity is that they're vague synonyms of categories defined solely by people, specifically people that can change views about which categories actually exist. If an oligodactyl pygmy with albinism and methemoglobinemia is born, they could be categorized as the first smurf to ever exist, and we'd have yet another bit of data to waste resources on when we have a census or similar process.

Meanwhile, the traits of atoms have pretty much been the same for over a dozen billion years, regardless of what humans thought about them.
The shooter is taken into custody this time, which seems like a new twist.
just like any word is defined solely by humans. But go ahead with the non-points.

Atoms aren't defined solely by humans, but also by their properties. Ethnicities and races are abstract, not tangible, which makes defining them in objective manners virtually impossible. But go ahead and ignore my points whenever it suits you.

cool famalam

Yeah, some free food for thought, assuming you end up holding onto archaic concepts like ethnicity and race while simultaneously becoming a space colonist one day.
that's mostly because metis despite being mixed people are considered separate/unique from either whites or amerindians.

Huh, it's almost as if ethnicities are solely defined by humans, and are therefore subjectively determined.

Enough for your hypothetical inbreeding issues to have surface over that time, particularly with the lack of the technologies and record keeping needed to avoid it. Anyway, going by

I'm pretty sure that many technologically astute Martian ethnostates would also pursue genetic engineering in less than a millennium, and that'd circumvent the inbreeding issue altogether if properly applied.

that may well be true but it wasn't said they'd be selected solely by ethnicity.

The only other selection factor in the thought experiment was a willingness to join the colony.

EDIT: Personally, I wouldn't be morally opposed to a bunch of Martian ethnicists or racists living in their own colonies without negatively affecting people.

They certainly can't become a country and claim territory, however, due to international treaties, but if their territory-free society is based on voluntary principles, have at it. I'm just concerned for the viability of their society and lineages, because they're all walking on shaky philosophical ground.

For example, what happens if the majority labels themselves as a new ethnicity or race, regardless of whether they've diverged due to genetic drift or manipulation? What if the number of new ethnicities and races created like this grows exponentially over time?
@Andreyich How ironic that the amount of ancestry necessary for benefits in the USA ranges from 1/4 to 1/16, depending on the tribe.

The British Isles and many other examples didn't exist completely independently of other biological groups, like a Mars colony would likely be. As for inbreeding, the IVF and IVG solutions would delay that, and a sufficiently sized population would extend the window for thousands of years without the need for strict breeding programs.
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Can you name an ethnostate that has imploded over shifting or vague definitions of ethnicity? I'm sure this has happened; human history is replete with failed states but do ethnostates implode over shifting and vague definitions of ethnicity with greater frequency than multiethnic states implode over violence between separate ethnic groups?

However your reply implies a rather large degree of confidence that this will occur. Have ethnostates in the past failed due to shifting and vague definitions of ethnicity that we can say with great confidence that a state must be ethnically heterogeneous in order to be stable?

Furthermore if this hypothesis is correct what happens if all feelings of racial prejudice and animus between groups in a ethnically heterogeneous state fade away and they intermarry until all ethnic differences are extinguished and they become ethnically homogeneous once again? Does the state become unstable until they can import members of a different ethnic group into their state?

My hypothesis isn't based on the behaviors of past or present human societies on Earth, given they generally don't live in metaphorical and literal vacuums. The ethnostatist Mars colony's implosion would likely be due to the subjectivity of races and ethnicities, combined with a lack of new people joining the colony and adding to its genepool. There are ways around that last part, but in vitro fertilization/gametogenesis could exacerbate the subjectivity issue, especially if the colony is isolated for generations.

After all, one of the assumptions of this thought experiment is that the colonists are objectively grouped by ethnicity. If I ask how this is done, we'll probably debate this matter for the next 5 pages, which will just prove my point.

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But when it's time to give free shit to blacks and amerindians ethnicity is a simple thing to define, unless you work for the Bureau of Indian Affairs and have to figure out what percentage of ancestry is necessary to get free shit.

Besides, Israel is working very well. Admittedly heavily at the expense of minorities the United States but well nonetheless.


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The idea is that we are currently where we are because of the foundations of Western civilization being what it is, ie based on Greek & Roman philosophy intermingled with Judeo-Christian value systems. These are, for the most part, alien in a lot of cultures outside of ours/this - hence the idea that people coming in should be let in slowly and in a controlled fashion.

That's not ethnostatism.
I suspect not but I'm interested in hearing opinions on the matter, especially arguments that object to the Magical Martian Ethnostate.

Get two racists in a room together, and you'll get 3 opinions about where the lines between any two given ethnicities begin and end. The very concepts of race and ethnicity are outdated, and it seems they provide many more cons than pros. I imagine the colony would implode over time, due to shifting or vague definitions.
I'm in.
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I know it sounds harsh, but pretty much. I mean, you don't see people wanting to flock to places such as Switzerland or Japan even though they're technically first world countries, yeah? Must be doing something right somewhere.

Ultimately I want to get rid of the welfare state or at least cut it back down to a local version of what we have, instead of the federal monstrosity that currently exists (I'm just using AU as a model, I don't know all that much about how the USA's or the UK's, for example, work). Seems like that would go a long way towards patching up the immigration issue.

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Why would I? I got here legally, not sponging off welfare, and continue to be here legally without a criminal record. Is that an issue?

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Not really - I just like to think that there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that some cultures can't assimilate into another, especially if one brings those of that culture en masse, giving them opportunities to segregate themselves from the larger population. As with anything, gradual and controlled is probably the best way forward.

Alright, but where does the ethnostatism come in, and how is it implemented?
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