[OOC] Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

[Cu Chulainn]

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

The strength nerf to B would be appreciated. If you want, you may increase MAG or LCK to B. And the dueling NP isn't of much concern to me, though I would like to know if it's possible to retreat or refuse the duel. Like I said in my post above, what concerns me is exactly what qualifies as fatal for his EX-Rank NP. What wounds besides arrows might kill him standing up? Could you stab him in the back or the heart? Could you decapitate him?

@Turboshitter

I decreased his strength accordingly, although it's a bit weird that Fake!Benkeiis now faster and marginally stronger than him. Not trying to argue it, but just putting it out there that it's odd to me.

The duel is supposed to be a line-in-the-sand kind of thing where he, if we're going MMO terms, "draws aggro from a singular threatening person." In other words, it's a forced challenge. I could decrease the range, but I'm afraid of the risk of making it too weak for its actual capabilities and what it aims to represent.

As his EX-Ranked NP, you can do things like chop his head off or stab him, but remember that his defenses also raise to immeasurable proportions. A conceptual attack like Gae Bolg would do the trick, but he's basically a wall once it's up.

Also, the previous picture I posted would have worked if I went with a Not Japanese Servant, in my honest opinion. Too much Western influences on the art.

[Turboshitter]

@vancexentan As for Dread Visage, there are a lot of Servants who have skills some might not think they'd warrant, so I'm willing to let it slide. Ultimately, it's a rather negligible issue compared to stats and NPs.

[vancexentan]

@TurboshitterYes but it also puts in a mental pollution element which would effect everyone with no equivalent skill of bravery. It becomes a game changer if the opponent is either too scared to fight at their best, or is overtly cautious.

[Grey]

<Snipped quote by MeteorD>

That was my idea, not vance's. As you said, there's no clear indication for what kind of parameter boost fame grants, so I went with a Rank Up to all stats.

@Turboshitter

someone find me that quote where cu gets a castle np and a blessing of wakefulness in ireland

where dat even more op mordred @

[Turboshitter]

<Snipped quote by Turboshitter>

I decreased his strength accordingly, although it's a bit weird that Fake!Benkeiis now faster and marginally stronger than him. Not trying to argue it, but just putting it out there that it's odd to me.

The duel is supposed to be a line-in-the-sand kind of thing where he, if we're going MMO terms, "draws aggro from a singular threatening person." In other words, it's a forced challenge. I could decrease the range, but I'm afraid of the risk of making it too weak for its actual capabilities and what it aims to represent.

As his EX-Ranked NP, you can do things like chop his head off or stab him, but remember that his defenses also raise to immeasurable proportions. A conceptual attack like Gae Bolg would do the trick, but he's basically a wall once it's up.

Also, the previous picture I posted would have worked if I went with a Not Japanese Servant, in my honest opinion. Too much Western influences on the art.

@Cu Chulainn

Hmmmm... you have a point. If you want STR back up to A, you could give True!Benkei the same B+ Rank that Fake!Benkei has for END. If you'd prefer to keep his END at A+ and still have A STR though... well, I'd have to consider it, but I won't rule it out. Maybe you could nerf LCK or MAG again xP

As for the dueling NP, I'm just concerned about what happens if he traps Caster or Assassin in there because it's the first time they've fought and they have no idea he's mothafuckin' Benkei. That essentially allows Benkei to net a free kill before Black Faction catches on, and while it's hardly unfair given that this is a PvE RP, it does make my life marginally more difficult xP

Will he give chase once he traps them there or does he simply stand in one place waiting for them to attack? Can you simply refuse to fight, or try outlasting him by returning to spirit form?

[Cu Chulainn]

Yes but it also puts in a mental pollution element which would effect everyone with no equivalent skill of bravery. It becomes a game changer if the opponent is either too scared to fight at their best, or is overtly cautious.

@vancexentan

I suppose it's my bad for exaggerating the description of its effects, but it's not that much of a threat. In reality, it'd only really be a game changer against cowardly foes. Most Heroic Spirits tend to be strong-willed in some respect, even without a skill like Bravery, and it could be argued that some Heroic Spirits who have fought similarly demonic-looking creatures in their legend would have some sort of resistance to it. In other words, to most Heroes, it'd be more like a "this guy is pretty spooky I should be wary" rather than a "oh boy its a demon I gotta play 200% defensively."

[vancexentan]

@GreyWell I could turn Blood Clarent Arthur into a Anti-Fortress Class Noble Phantasm (sarcasm). Just about the only thing that hasn't gotten buffed.

[vancexentan]

@Cu ChulainnAlright I'll cut you a deal: Make the description more clear on the matter of what it does, and or can do and I'll reconsider my stance on the skill. I won't say I'll change my mind but I'll think it through.

[Cu Chulainn]

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Hmmmm... you have a point. If you want STR back up to A, you could give True!Benkei the same B+ Rank that Fake!Benkei has for END. If you'd prefer to keep his END at A+ and still have A STR though... well, I'd have to consider it, but I won't rule it out. Maybe you could nerf LCK or MAG again xP

As for the dueling NP, I'm just concerned about what happens if he traps Caster or Assassin in there because it's the first time they've fought and they have no idea he's mothafuckin' Benkei. That essentially allows Benkei to net a free kill before Black Faction catches on, and while it's hardly unfair given that this is a PvE RP, it does make my life marginally more difficult xP

Will he give chase once he traps them there or does he simply stand in one place waiting for them to attack? Can you simply refuse to fight, or try outlasting him by returning to spirit form?

@Turboshitter

I think I'll go with having a B rating to Strength, most likely. His Agility is still suck, especially for the likes of a Lancer, though. And I like where his MGI and LCK are currently. MGI because if it were any lower, he might risk killing his Master, and LCK because he was also a Buddhist Warrior Monk, and faithful people tend to have higher luck anyway. (Jeanne's was a C rating as well, despite being turned to BBQ.) A Luck nerf might make sense though since Lancer Class Containers have shitty luck anyway.

Now for the dueling NP. They could probably "retreat" in their spirit form, although that does sound like a vast oversight. Then again, Nasuverse is full of oversights. Honestly I'd rather prefer they didn't, though, as it'd turn all duels into just "kek bye bye." Plus, I don't recall any Servants quickly retreating into their spiritual form when the tides turn against them. Quickly, I mean.

Benkei's an honorable guy and probably would just go "you're not worth my time foo" if the person he forces to duel is too annoying or cowardly, and might just end it there. If not for that, I'll find a reason, because plot armor + even if it's a PvE roleplay. we're still telling a story, and I'd rather not just have the story result in "oh, all the squishy enemies died first, lol."

[MeteorD]

@Turboshitter
While parameter increase is indeed a thing from regional boosts, it's been mentioned that the advantage gained can come in other forms.

The meaning of "strong" here is the Servant becoming closer to the strength, equipment of that of the legend. Through this blessing, the addition of another NP is also possible.
If Chu Chulainn had been summoned in his homeland Ireland, a castle, chariot, protection of sleeplessness, and the like would have been added probably. Also, if the magic energy of the Master is powerful, the Servant will become closer to his strength as in the legend.

Additional Noble Phantasms and Skills is one way that the regional boost can be utilized, though it would require input from the maker. Still, you're the GM so I won't tell you to alter the rules (since that would mean breaking the standard limit on NPs and Skills set within the RP) unless you feel it's fitting.

@vancexentan
Sorry, quoted you as a response since you were the one who posted the information. I didn't actually know it was your character.

EDIT: I should also note, that it specifies an increase in strength towards that of the legend, rather than a general increase. Meaning, for example, a character who is already displaying strength equivalent to that of their legend would not have that parameter increased, but likely another that stems from lesser-known legends concerning the hero.

[Turboshitter]

<Snipped quote by vancexentan>

I suppose it's my bad for exaggerating the description of its effects, but it's not that much of a threat. In reality, it'd only really be a game changer against cowardly foes. Most Heroic Spirits tend to be strong-willed in some respect, even without a skill like Bravery, and it could be argued that some Heroic Spirits who have fought similarly demonic-looking creatures in their legend would have some sort of resistance to it. In other words, to most Heroes, it'd be more like a "this guy is pretty spooky I should be wary" rather than a "oh boy its a demon I gotta play 200% defensively."

@Cu Chulainn

A lot of mental interference skills impose a stat penalty, so you might wanna make note of that if this isn't supposed to do that. Though if all this skill does is make people think he's spooky, I kinda have to wonder if it's really necessary for him to have it. Are you sure he really, absolutely needs this? We can try to accommodate it if you think he does, but it might be easier to just drop it.

[Cu Chulainn]

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>



A lot of mental interference skills impose a stat penalty, so you might wanna make note of that if this isn't supposed to do that. Though if all this skill does is make people think he's spooky, I kinda have to wonder if it's really necessary for him to have it. Are you sure he really, absolutely needs this? We can try to accommodate it if you think he does, but it might be easier to just drop it.

@Turboshitter

It's actually part of his legend that his spookiness shook the hearts of people. In some variations of it, he actually does dress like an oni in order to aid in intimidating people.



I went with the FC I chose because it makes him look pretty oni-like already.

[Cu Chulainn]

@Turboshitter@vancexentan

It's a bit hard for me to think of ways to nerf Dread Visage at this moment without it being made too redundant for its rank. I'm actually a bit deprived on sleep at the moment, so it's definitely on me, but the closest thing I've thought of was making Magic Resistance also factor in to whether or not it would affect someone or not, even though it technically isn't magic that makes him look spooky.

As for its redundancy, it's actually one of the important things that are made clear in his legend. Taking away his ogre-like visage is like scraping off Diarmuid's Love Spot, honestly. It's one of those things in a person's legend that differentiates them from another hero, and it being there doesn't seem redundant in the slightest. It is a distinguishing part of his legend, so I'd rather it stayed.

[Turboshitter]

<Snipped quote by Turboshitter>

It's actually part of his legend that his spookiness shook the hearts of people. In some variations of it, he actually does dress like an oni in order to aid in intimidating people.



I went with the FC I chose because it makes him look pretty oni-like already.

@Cu Chulainn

Hmmmmmmm... honestly, I'm not quite sure what to make of this right now. I don't really object to Benkei when taken as a whole, however I'm not fond of the FC or the way Dread Visage is being utilized here. I get that it suits his legend, but the way it does next to nothing feels a bit tacked on.

Alright, how about this. I'll allow Dread Visage to inflict a stat penalty on the afflicted, but in exchange, True!Benkei should have the same stats as Fake!Benkei, or he should at least have the same STR and END. Is that agreeable, @Cu Chulainn and @vancexentan?

[vancexentan]

@Cu ChulainnLu Bu is literally the embodiment of terror in the early three kingdoms period. The dude doesn't have a skill of that sort either. Turbo has convinced me to loose my stance on the matter and just let it through regardless but I still believe it is unwarranted. Because unlike his Diarmuid's lovespot it effects everyone, and magical resistance doesn't cancel it out only remote skills like bravery, or madness enhancement do.

Edit: as for stats I am still adamant that strength be demoted to B. He isn't a Greek, or roman super hero, and he's not a super knight like a charlamange paladin, or a knight of the round table.

[Turboshitter]

@Cu ChulainnLu Bu is literally the embodiment of terror in the early three kingdoms period. The dude doesn't have a skill of that sort either. Turbo has convinced me to loose my stance on the matter and just let it through regardless but I still believe it is unwarranted. Because unlike his Diarmuid's lovespot it effects everyone, and magical resistance doesn't cancel it out only remote skills like bravery, or madness enhancement do.

Edit: as for stats I am still adamant that strength be demoted to B. He isn't a Greek, or roman super hero, and he's not a super knight like a charlamange paladin, or a knight of the round table.

@vancexentan

The guy who was imitating Benkei had A Rank STR. Benkei not being just as strong would be absurd. And again, in the Nasuverse, consistency can eat shit (at least when it comes to Servant abilities, it seems). There are a lot of Servants who lack abilities one might think they should have or possess abilities one might think they wouldn't. It annoys the hell out of me too vance, but making a fuss about it is going to cause more trouble than letting it slide.

[vancexentan]

@TurboshitterImitation Benkei is a fate/grand order hero as well. I'd like to keep in mind that it is not known for it's accuracy on many servants. More over Imitation Benkei is walking off the legend of the original as well. I'll let it go if you insist on it but it is my integrity as a GM to argue points that i do, and do not believe should be brought in for which ever character is at hand.

[Cu Chulainn]

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Hmmmmmmm... honestly, I'm not quite sure what to make of this right now. I don't really object to Benkei when taken as a whole, however I'm not fond of the FC or the way Dread Visage is being utilized here. I get that it suits his legend, but the way it does next to nothing feels a bit tacked on.

Alright, how about this. I'll allow Dread Visage to inflict a stat penalty on the afflicted, but in exchange, True!Benkei should have the same stats as Fake!Benkei, or he should at least have the same STR and END. Is that agreeable, @Cu Chulainn and @vancexentan?

@Turboshitter

I'm already down to reduce his Strength and I edited it in, but his Endurance is something I'd like him to keep. He's supposed to be a defensive threat, anyway and not an offensive one. As for his Dread Visage skill, I just came up with something in the realm of making it more balanced by saying the fear is from the magic of his presumed Oni heritage, which would make Magic Resistance work against it.

@Cu ChulainnLu Bu is literally the embodiment of terror in the early three kingdoms period. The dude doesn't have a skill of that sort either. Turbo has convinced me to loose my stance on the matter and just let it through regardless but I still believe it is unwarranted. Because unlike his Diarmuid's lovespot it effects everyone, and magical resistance doesn't cancel it out only remote skills like bravery, or madness enhancement do.

Edit: as for stats I am still adamant that strength be demoted to B. He isn't a Greek, or roman super hero, and he's not a super knight like a charlamange paladin, or a knight of the round table.

@vancexentan

The only Lu Bu we've seen in Fate was a Berserker who was already said to be modified in some way due to the nature of his summoning, addded with the fact that Mad Enhancement seals Personal Skills.

[Cu Chulainn]

@TurboshitterImitation Benkei is a fate/grand order hero as well. I'd like to keep in mind that it is not known for it's accuracy on many servants. More over Imitation Benkei is walking off the legend of the original as well. I'll let it go if you insist on it but it is my integrity as a GM to argue points that i do, and do not believe should be brought in for which ever character is at hand.

@vancexentan

Imitation Benkei's stats were made before Grand Order. All they did for him when he was added to Grand Order was remove two of his weaker NPs and add ranks to his Personal Skills. His actual stats were unchanged.

[Turboshitter]

*sighs* As much as I want to so we can move on, I can't say you're wrong, @vancexentan...

Hey @Cu Chulainn, I know this might be asking a lot, but could we see your previous Lancer concept? IIRC, you had one for a Servant who wasn't Japanese. Failing that, would you be adverse to playing Fake!Benkei instead of True!Benkei? I normally wouldn't ask this of players, but this seems to be becoming a point of contention, and I don't want it to cause problems later on. I won't force you of course, but I will ask if you'd consider it at least.

Perhaps we should do a poll? Does anyone else besides the GMs have any opinions on this?