Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by rush99999
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If I can get my NS done and accepted on time, I'd like to be part of the 1st event.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Yurnero
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Currently at work right now, but I'll echo rush99999 above. If I can prepare and have a nation accepted before the RP begins then I volunteer to be part of the first events.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by DELETED32084
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Alright, trying this again!



Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by rush99999
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[Nothing to see here]
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by DracoLunaris
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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IC is now up and the first even has fired. Nothing super heavy weight, just something to get us started. If you have been given permission to post in the character tab and have done so feel free to post whenever. I'll be putting up an Argentum Knights post in the next few days and you can expect the next event to be on next Friday (this one will be a bit more... involved).
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by DELETED32084
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CS updated to reflect some more fluid storyline in the culture section.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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Artur, you rat bastard!
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Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Yurnero
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W.I.P.

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Slamurai
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@YurneroYou should join the Discord chat, where the vast majority of OOC talk takes place!
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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A number of players has brought to my attention a trend regarding crossbows that they find concerning. This trend being the desire to use lever-action, pump-action, or any kind of semi-auto crossbow. After discussing the matter with the concerned players I find myself sharing their concerns, thus I have decided to ban the use of any of the aforementioned crossbows (this includes bolters and any other similar weapons). I am aware that ancient china did use a type of semi-auto crossbow in RL, however these weapons had a number of serious issues (that players tend to be unaware of or simply choose to ignore) and I feel that the threat of 'tech creep' both warrants and necessitates this ban.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by DracoLunaris
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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@Willy Vereb We've got two problems: 1) I don't recall giving you permission to post in the character tab and 2) your military uses pump-action and lever-action crossbows, both of which are explicitly banned. You will need to remove those crossbows, or bolters as you call them, and resubmit your sheet for approval before you can post ICly.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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@Willy Vereb We've got two problems: 1) I don't recall giving you permission to post in the character tab and 2) your military uses pump-action and lever-action crossbows, both of which are explicitly banned. You will need to remove those crossbows, or bolters as you call them, and resubmit your sheet for approval before you can post ICly.
1.) You gave me explicit permission to post my sheet on Sunday or Monday. I asked you in the chat. Discord is a bit messy to scroll back that far with the message feed but you also have the search function for a good reason.
EDIT: I actually found it. Not sure if this link format works but we'll see:
discordapp.com/channels/3790804108036…

2.) Pump-action and Lever-action are both are as old as the ancient ages, even for weapons. Your decision to ban them basically also removes Gastraphetes and Chu-ko-nu, among others. In addition neither weapons are semi-automatic, that applies to weapons that load the next round by themselves. Blowback operated action was the first such example and from that you can guess how very different that would be.
In addition there's a difference between pulling back a pump for a gun, where it only requires enough force to load the next cartridge, and for a crossbow. In a sense banning pump action is the equivalent of prohibiting bowmen to draw back the bowstrings.

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Crispy Octopus
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2.) Pump-action and Lever-action are both are as old as the ancient ages, even for weapons. Your decision to ban them basically also removes Gastraphetes and Chu-ko-nu, among others. In addition neither weapons are semi-automatic, that applies to weapons that load the next round by themselves. Blowback operated action was the first such example and from that you can guess how very different that would be.
In addition there's a difference between pulling back a pump for a gun, where it only requires enough force to load the next cartridge, and for a crossbow. In a sense banning pump action is the equivalent of prohibiting bowmen to draw back the bowstrings.


@DarkspleenJust ban clip and magazine fed weapons. Chu-ko-nu were useless at anything but extremely short range and were only ever used storming keeps. They have abysmal armor penetration. For a crossbow to be remotely useful against even lightly armored troops it needs a draw weight heavy enough that a magazine is only a hindrance when it is drawn.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

@DarkspleenJust ban clip and magazine fed weapons. Chu-ko-nu were useless at anything but extremely short range and were only ever used storming keeps. They have abysmal armor penetration. For a crossbow to be remotely useful against even lightly armored troops it needs a draw weight heavy enough that a magazine is only a hindrance when it is drawn.
I feel it's kind of redundant to ban magazine fed crossbows, too. Chu-ko-nu weren't useless, they just aren't used the same as other crossbows. Their design also had lot of inefficiencies that could've been streamlined if they became more widespread, I suppose.
Anyways, what I wanted to say is that magazine fed weapons aren't really much better than loading the next round by hand, it adds convenience and better portability. Also they aren't really overtaking an archer in terms of effectiveness.

Lastly, being afraid of somewhat higher rate of fire is an ahistorical concern. Ancient battlefield weapons couldn't afford to spew thousands of ammunition per hour or anything crazy like that. Neither doctrines of the time had much to build on increased rate of fire. It was convenient but not a game changer. In case of repeating crossbows as you said rate of fire came at the cost of power. You needed relatively light draw weight to make it feasible which of course made the weapon weaker.

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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@Willy Vereb Honestly I am not terribly surprised that I gave you permission to post in the character tab and then promptly forgot (hence my wording). And now that you mention it I do recall doing so, so my apologies.

Here is my concern. I explicitly banned something and instead of approaching me and trying to inform/convince me that the ban was premature or inappropriate you instead decided to outright ignore my ruling. This is not something I'm cool with.

For now lets do this: you may post (as I gave you permission to post in the character tab), but do not make any mention of lever action or pump action crossbows/bolters. DO NOT TEST ME ON THIS.

I have seen your argument here in the OOC in regards to those types of crossbows and will give it some consideration. If you want you are more than welcome to broach the subject in discord.

To everyone else

I'll be putting up the next GM post (and probably my first Argentum Knights post) sometime today. I am considering making the week of Christmas be something of a vacation, meaning I won't expect you all to post during it, but that's something we can address in the next week.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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@DarkspleenI don't wish to talk about it much because then it'd just sour moods and might even lead to antagonizing people.
We actually talked this out on discord in your absence. It seems certain people imagined my Bolters as rapid-firing siege weapons and then accused me because of their own misconception. You reacted to that and probably the result.
Also just like how you forgot about accepting my NS I didn't read about you banning said weapons when I posted my sheet. Although I kind of did ignore it after hearing the details. I apologize for that.

Anyways, please message me in Discord whenever you're online. I am working in irregular shifts, have multiple devices which might be turned on even when I am away so I am usually running Discord in invisible mode. So unfortunately you can never tell when I am up.
But I can surprise you. Especially since I have a minor case of neurosis and my sleep schedule is a mess.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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@Willy Vereb After looking at the info you posted here and in Discord I have decided that your argument is with merit and that am willing to chalk up the weapons in your sheet as you 'interpreting the rule as a countermeasure to rapid firing weapons and thus not viewing conventional crossbow designs incorporating pumps or levers as actually breaking the intent of the rule'. This interpretation was, in fact, correct (in that I wanted to prevent rapid firing weapons) and I take the blame for rashly implementing a poorly thought out rule and further writing it in a confusing manner.

I will be rewriting the rule to make it clearer sometime tonight. I am not quite sure what it'll entail exactly, but will probably follow the lines of "Don't have rapid firing weapons." Very likely the rule change will also include a lifting of the ban on pump-actions and lever-actions, but I won't promise that at this time.
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