[OOC] Swordfight

[Schradinger]

If we're going back that far, you're cutting out the entire attacking portion of my post, and by extension almost all of your last two posts (due to your new movement nevating the back half of your previous post and precipitating a different response on my part). Generally, it's good etiquette in a fight to not cut back any farther than one post at most, and half a post preferably, but if you want to play hardball with the post cutting, we can do things that way too.

Up to you I guess. Things just tend to read better if half the fight isn't nullified by post cuts.

[MelonHead]

Schradinger said
We're going for peak comic book human stats here, so his physicals will need to be nerfed to fit the bill, especially since he's enhanced in every area. All of the other characters have to sacrifice something to get another thing, like how Khan's guy is the biggest and strongest but also the slowest, or how Vordak's guy is fast and strong but doesn't have the mass he needs to utilize his full strength most effectively, or how my guy has speed and power, but less strength than Khan's or Vordak's guys. In conclusion, I'd say nerf his physicals by half, and remove the magical abilities (including mist form), for the duration of the fight (after all, we're here to focus on melee, not powers). That should put him slightly below the strength or speed based characters within their area of specialization, but slightly above them outside of it. Basically a jack of all trades, master of none type fighter.

Vanarus' stats are nerfed by the fact that he's a vampire, though if no-one is using any magic then I suppose no-one will be able to capitalize on any of his weaknesses.

We're fighting in a well lit arena, so all his physical stats are halved regardless. I also assumed his stats would probably be offset by no armour. All in all, I think all the changes you asked for have technically already been made, Vanarus won't be using any magic (even if he could, which he can't in a well-lit arena.)

As for the penalty for his well rounded stats, he doesn't have the capacity to take hits as well as many characters because his strength is simply supernatural, therefore I'm sacrificing defense for strength and speed.

[MelonHead]

Schradinger said
If we're going back that far, you're cutting out the entire attacking portion of my post, and by extension almost all of your last two posts (due to your new movement nevating the back half of your previous post and precipitating a different response on my part). Generally, it's good etiquette in a fight to not cut back any farther than one post at most, and half a post preferably, but if you want to play hardball with the post cutting, we can do things that way too. Up to you I guess. Things just tend to read better if half the fight isn't nullified by post cuts.

Also, post cutting can't extend any further than your previous post, you get one post to react to changing circumstances, after that the actions are locked in. It's how the whole 'game of chess' thing works, if you set in motion events further back that lead to a killing blow there isn't much an opponent can do about it if they overlook the danger early on, when the move is in its infancy.

[Schradinger]

He is only going back as far as his previous post, but he post he just made changes almost the entire thing, as well as most of my last post. It's almost a complete re-write of his last post, rather than just cutting one part. That's why the line seems blurry to me. He described (I'll just pick a number instead of going to actually count) let's say seven actions, but with his new post only one of them is still applicable, and I didn't actually interrupt him in my post until his third or fourth action.

[Schradinger]

MelonHead said
Vanarus' stats are nerfed by the fact that he's a vampire, though if no-one is using any magic then I suppose no-one will be able to capitalize on any of his weaknesses.We're fighting in a well lit arena, so all his physical stats are halved regardless. I also assumed his stats would probably be offset by no armour. All in all, I think all the changes you asked for have technically already been made, Vanarus won't be using any magic (even if he could, which he can't in a well-lit arena.)As for the penalty for his well rounded stats, he doesn't have the capacity to take hits as well as many characters because his strength is simply supernatural, therefore I'm sacrificing defense for strength and speed.

Ok, so it's bright light that weakens him? Not just direct sunlight? In that case, with the concession that he can't use any of his magical abilities, I'd say he's good to go. Just make sure he starts in a neutral position and doesn't spawn right in someone's blind spot.

[GreivousKhan]

So ya, Schradinger has to post before I can, then Lee, and so forth.

I guess killing the elf is up to me since I'm closes? Geez that's quite the body count right from the get go. :K

If elf guy is really gone anyway.

[GreivousKhan]

Schradinger said
If we're going back that far, you're cutting out the entire attacking portion of my post, and by extension almost all of your last two posts (due to your new movement nevating the back half of your previous post and precipitating a different response on my part). Generally, it's good etiquette in a fight to not cut back any farther than one post at most, and half a post preferably, but if you want to play hardball with the post cutting, we can do things that way too. Up to you I guess. Things just tend to read better if half the fight isn't nullified by post cuts.

As a side note, you can't technically cut post actions at all unless,

A, the person used an 'If' statement.

B, the action is literally impossible to complete due to preconceived assumptions no longer being true, which is kind of like a If statement in itself.

[MelonHead]

GreivousKhan said
So ya, Schradinger has to post before I can, then Lee, and so forth. I guess killing the elf is up to me since I'm closes? Geez that's quite the body count right from the get go. :K If elf guy is really gone anyway.

If the elf is gone I can quickly edit into my post striking her down, technically she would be standing near where Vanarus 'spawned'.

[MelonHead]

There we go, the Elf is eliminated and now I can get to murdering you slowly with a sword Khan.

Or LeeRoy, if he can't find another dance partner.

[Schradinger]

GreivousKhan said
As a side note, you can't technically cut post actions at all unless, A, the person used an 'If' statement.B, the action is literally impossible to complete due to preconceived assumptions no longer being true, which is kind of like a If statement in itself.

If that's true, then Vordak wouldn't be able to change anything in his previous post that would have happened before my feet hit his chest.

So we've got two schools of thought on the issue. One that says anything in the previous post can be altered, and one that says it can only be altered if it was written with an "if" statement or you're interrupted by your opponent. Anybody got a link to somewhere that would tell us which is more commonly accepted?

[Vordak]

Well, IMHO, the former leans more towards the natural course of action, as one often alters their actions in order to outsmart their opponent. On the other hand, taking actions only according to the 'if' statements made prior offers strict moderation and overall less dodgy posts.

[GreivousKhan]

MelonHead said
There we go, the Elf is eliminated and now I can get to murdering you slowly with a sword Khan.Or LeeRoy, if he can't find another dance partner.

MURDERER!

[GreivousKhan]

Schradinger said
If that's true, then Vordak wouldn't be able to change anything in his previous post that would have happened before my feet hit his chest. So we've got two schools of thought on the issue. One that says anything in the previous post can be altered, and one that says it can only be altered if it was written with an "if" statement or you're interrupted by your opponent. Anybody got a link to somewhere that would tell us which is more commonly accepted?

You know in the old guild there was a helpful guide in the arena about the standards and rules used.

To bad that was lost along with everything from old guild. Someone needs to write that back up.

[Schradinger]

Vordak said
Well, IMHO, the former leans more towards the natural course of action, as one often alters their actions in order to outsmart their opponent. On the other hand, taking actions only according to the 'if' statements made prior offers strict moderation and overall less dodgy posts.

That's just it. If we use the former method, I could essentially re-write my entire last post to the point that I never actually jumped at all, then you could re-write your current post completely to do something else that wasn't originally thought of, and the fight would never get beyond the first attack, with every post being retconned by the next. It's a terrible way to conduct a fight. In my view, using the "no changes unless interrupted or using an if statement" method makes for much cleaner duels that have a better flow to them, without as much hassle regarding the legality of move alterations, and that's the method I'd prefer to use (especially since it's also the closest to what I first learned).

The idea that an opponent can completely take back everything in their last post in order to respond in a way that they originally couldn't and gain an advantage they would never have had just makes me cringe, and seems overall extremely dodgy. It's like fighting someone who can rewind time and try again every time they make a mistake.

All that said, I'm going to exercise my co-thread-starter privileges and enact the "no alterations unless interrupted or using an if statement" rule. Vordak, would you be willing to edit your post with that in mind? It just seems the most logical way to go, and I'd be asking the same thing even if it wasn't my character that was involved. So it's not just because I don't want to get cut in half, because I wouldn't anyway. ;)

[Vordak]

What about setting only alteration of a current action as the highest plank? No complete re-writing, you go on with what you started with (unless said actions were mentioned only in a hypothetical manner), slightly tuning them when needed. No complete re-writing and action cancellation, which would mean that the fight inevitably goes on, yet more diversity in actions.

Yes, i don't want to re-write the post. But that's not because i cant find another way to beat ye down, m8! >;3

[Schradinger]

That sill leaves entire posts open to being completely re-written. Take yours as an example. You wrote an action, then I created a response to that action, then you altered the action you initiated, without any prior indication that you would do so, which then will force me to completely re-write the action I took because the circumstances that led to it no longer apply/exist. Basically, you altered things so far back that almost my entire post becomes useless and voided.

If you write something as a definite event, without using an if statement, that should be exactly how that event happens unless it's physically interrupted by another writer. You were probably trying to create a scenario that was easily variable, but when you used definitive statements like "Meats did this, then followed up with this" and didn't use an if qualifier, you cemented those actions into the story, and they could only be altered by actual physical interruption from me. This is the exact reason we're doing this. To bush off our dueling skills and learn from our mistakes.

So I'd really appreciate it if you could edit the post. I understand that you don't want to lose what you wrote, but it's a difficult post to understand in the first place (im having a hard time wrapping my head around that first move and the narration towards the end) and it IS technically not legal. And the only way for us to improve is to fix our mistakes. That, and I'm a little OCD about my fights. I hate having useless posts cluttering them up, and that's essentially what our previous two posts are right now.

[Schradinger]

Not to mention the fact that my carefully laid out three post trap that should be impossible to avoid at this point was circumvented and nullified by an illegal move. That stings a bit... Having all that effort and planning negated by what essentially amounts to a cheat code (rewinding time to get out of a situation you couldn't get out of otherwise).

Point is, I lose a lot more if you don't edit the post than you lose if you do. :(

[Vordak]

Okay, that wasn't the only trick i had in mind. You might like this one even less than what i have right now. >;D

[Schradinger]

As long as it doesn't break the rules or laws of physics, go for it. :)

[Vordak]

Done.