[OOC] History Generator [Open 'till the end of time]

[ClocktowerEchos]

Good point. Any volunteers?

Humans are good. So, our group of merry men finds themselves where? Coastal tribe? Inland tribe, maybe focused on woodworking or working the land. Depends on what kind of advantages we want them to have. Bountiful food resources, or maybe mining metal for infrastructure and military (if we have one). I suppose we could give them everything they could want. Pretty much start out with a golden age of advancement, get things going.

@AccursedBiscuit

First off, I recommend everyone go read up on some ancient world history. Things happened for a reason and Rome didn't just become and empire a la Deus Vult, they had several things go their way because of thier location, enviroment, etc etc.

If we are going to be starting at the very beginning of civilization, they are going to be basically nomadic herders or hunter gathers but I guess it can be said that they are a group of nomads who've just decided to settle down. In which case they would be also certainly coastal or river as they could either have plentiful fish or good soil to farm on.

If I'm going to be quite honest, it seems are you thinking this as less history and more of a scrubbed version of history often presented by games. Early on, the concept of military was something beyond thought and infrastructure was limited to hovels of varying sizes and dirt roads. In short, history is a lot more complex than what you might think.

[Shayd]

I can keep track of anything that you all feel is necessary, although we're kind of doing that here.

I'm for humanoids, but I'm not sure I'm for a RP without any magic lol. But first things first, right?
@AccursedBiscuitI'm liking your ideas. Both tribes.

[Shayd]

Humanity began to fight when they began to feel a sense of ownership over something worth defending. With tribes, this could be as simple as their hunting/gathering territory, their resources. While there wouldn't be an organized military, in a modern sense, there would be fighting and conflicts.

[AccursedBiscuit]

If I'm going to be quite honest, it seems are you thinking this as less history and more of a scrubbed version of history often presented by games. Early on, the concept of military was something beyond thought and infrastructure was limited to hovels of varying sizes and dirt roads. In short, history is a lot more complex than what you might think.

@ClocktowerEchos

I was just thinking big picture, trying to get a sense of where we want to take this. Of course cause and effect is a large part of how these things come about. Besides, there's nothing saying we can't go off the books a little.

Humanity began to fight when they began to feel a sense of ownership over something worth defending. With tribes, this could be as simple as their hunting/gathering territory, their resources. While there wouldn't be an organized military, in a modern sense, there would be fighting and conflicts.

@Shayd

I like that. Maybe they noticed a lot of edible food growing on a coastal plain, and the waters were practically jumping with fish. They couldn't help but stay. They knew this was home.

[ClocktowerEchos]

Humanity began to fight when they began to feel a sense of ownership over something worth defending. With tribes, this could be as simple as their hunting/gathering territory, their resources. While there wouldn't be an organized military, in a modern sense, there would be fighting and conflicts.

@Shayd

If we're talking early, early human history, no there was not. There was barely any organization, all "armies" were basically levied warrior war bands, not soldiers. The difference between a soldier and a warrior is that soldiers can still function with mediocre leadership while warriors cannot. All forms of warfare was either raiding parties or raid defenses, collected in a short time for that particular act of aggression or defense, they are literally just levy militia. Standing armies would not be and professional soldiers would not be for a long time coming.

When talking about this in the context of this RP which we're starting off as HG nomads who settled on the coast, there would be no territory disputes. They would be too concerned about their daily grind of survival to worry about their power compared to neighboring lands. Also, HGs don't have "territory", they are basically nomads and nomads by definition have no set boundaries.

[Shayd]

Then I suggest we decide right now at what period of development our so-called people are.

[SpookySquid]

As far as the map goes, do you think we could maybe have just one huge circular ocean that takes up about 1/5th(ish) of the world? This would leave the end of the map without the ocean essentially barren at first. It would also make for some interesting competition, especially earlier on.

[ClocktowerEchos]

<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>

I was just thinking big picture, trying to get a sense of where we want to take this. Of course cause and effect is a large part of how these things come about. Besides, there's nothing saying we can't go off the books a little.

@AccursedBiscuit

The thing is, with history you have to go by the books in a way. History is the greatest chain of cause-and-effect to ever have existed. The rise of Hitler can be tied to Franco-Prussian relations in the 1800's. The rise of communism can be linked to the invention of the steam engine. Modern Europe has its roots in the fall of the Roman empire.

I was under the impression that this was supposed to be soemthing of a serious and realistic approach to writing out a history.

I like that. Maybe they noticed a lot of edible food growing on a coastal plain, and the waters were practically jumping with fish. They couldn't help but stay. They knew this was home.

@AccursedBiscuit

Small note: most edible crops grow further inland naturally. You wouldn't see wheat growing naturally all that close to an ocean, on a lake, maybe.

[AccursedBiscuit]

Hmm, start with a sizeable town to get to the interesting parts faster? They've got most basic technologies discovered, like farming, keeping livestock, etc. How do our villagers react to outsiders? What kind of politics do they use?

[SpookySquid]

Hmm, start with a sizeable town to get to the interesting parts faster? They've got most basic technologies discovered, like farming, keeping livestock, etc. How do our villagers react to outsiders? What kind of politics do they use?

@AccursedBiscuit

Right now, I'd say no leadership. They simply live together to conveniently trade with each other whenever needed.

[Shayd]

Hmm, start with a sizeable town to get to the interesting parts faster? They've got most basic technologies discovered, like farming, keeping livestock, etc. How do our villagers react to outsiders? What kind of politics do they use?

@AccursedBiscuit

I do agree that we should start with at least some level of settlement, as to provide opportunities for conflict. There could still be environmental conflicts, if we started earlier, of course...

[AccursedBiscuit]

The thing is, with history you have to go by the books in a way. History is the greatest chain of cause-and-effect to ever have existed. The rise of Hitler can be tied to Franco-Prussian relations in the 1800's. The rise of communism can be linked to the invention of the steam engine. Modern Europe has its roots in the fall of the Roman empire.

I was under the impression that this was supposed to be soemthing of a serious and realistic approach to writing out a history.

@ClocktowerEchos

I get that. So, what do you suggest we put into our books?
There weren't any real boundaries set. Basically, we just decide together, freeform. You want structure and realism, Shayd wants magic, and we have yet more people to voice their opinions. I'm sure we can work something out.

Small note: most edible crops grow further inland naturally. You wouldn't see wheat growing naturally all that close to an ocean, on a lake, maybe.

@ClocktowerEchos

Different evolutionary timeline. Different plants to eat and avoid, different animals with different behaviors to hunt or run away from. It's the greatest sandbox ever!

[SpookySquid]

Small note: most edible crops grow further inland naturally. You wouldn't see wheat growing naturally all that close to an ocean, on a lake, maybe.

@ClocktowerEchos

True, but there is fishing. Plus, we would still need bodies of fresh water. Perhaps have a few of those, but this ocean would contain the only salt water. Perhaps we could have a small colony that adapts and is able to drink salt water that lives near there?

[Shayd]

@SpookySquid That's an interesting idea!

[AccursedBiscuit]

Maybe someday they can learn how to get the salt out of the water, and make it drinkable. Then, they could have excess salt they could trade as a luxury item for things they need. I know that's a little ahead of where we are, but just a thought before bed. G'night guys.

[ClocktowerEchos]

<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>

True, but there is fishing. Plus, we would still need bodies of fresh water. Perhaps have a few of those, but this ocean would contain the only salt water. Perhaps we could have a small colony that adapts and is able to drink salt water that lives near there?

@SpookySquid

Different evolutionary timeline. Different plants to eat and avoid, different animals with different behaviors to hunt or run away from. It's the greatest sandbox ever!

@AccursedBiscuit

And this is precisely my issue with this direction, we can claim that because of different evolutionary timelines means that our bog standard human can do anything and the world can literally be crafted for them. Drink salt water? Ok! Survive in freezing cold temperatures? Still fine! Can go months without eating? Evolution baby! How about animals that are naturally plump and juicy and fat for us to eat? Why the hell not!

There is no sense of urgency in situations like this, things should be based on how it works by science and not what we want. If that was the case, I could claim that a much of space elves have established a colony here on this planet and decided to purge every living thing because it is the "greatest sandbox ever!"

[Vordak]

<Snipped quote by SpookySquid>

<Snipped quote by AccursedBiscuit>

And this is precisely my issue with this direction, we can claim that because of different evolutionary timelines means that our bog standard human can do anything and the world can literally be crafted for them. Drink salt water? Ok! Survive in freezing cold temperatures? Still fine! Can go months without eating? Evolution baby! How about animals that are naturally plump and juicy and fat for us to eat? Why the hell not!

There is no sense of urgency in situations like this, things should be based on how it works by science and not what we want. If that was the case, I could claim that a much of space elves have established a colony here on this planet and decided to purge every living thing because it is the "greatest sandbox ever!"

@ClocktowerEchos

Exactly. While, i, personally, have nothing against non-standart human species, they need to be well thought-through before they make their arrivance. They should have their separate character sheets, really.

Things like drinking salt water could be balanced out by having the filtered salt build up within one's body, causing eventual poisoning - tinkering with such things is not necessarily going to take away the grit and realism. Magic and alternate humanoid species can be done well within such a setting, and i'm certain each of us has seen multiple examples of that being done.

Also, how about something completely different? Say, a nomadic tribe that travels the world, interacts with various different settlements and crosses a multitude of biomes - this could serve as a sort of exploration device, to help actually map out the world we're working in. I'm not opposed to having an already established settlement, but how does this sound as an idea?

[Shayd]

Exactly. While, i, personally, have nothing against non-standart human species, they need to be well thought-through before they make their arrivance. They should have their separate character sheets, really.

Things like drinking salt water could be balanced out by having the filtered salt build up within one's body, causing eventual poisoning - tinkering with such things is not necessarily going to take away the grit and realism. Magic and alternate humanoid species can be done well within such a setting, and i'm certain each of us has seen multiple examples of that being done.

Also, how about something completely different? Say, a nomadic tribe that travels the world, interacts with various different settlements and crosses a multitude of biomes - this could serve as a sort of exploration device, to help actually map out the world we're working in. I'm not opposed to having an already established settlement, but how does this sound as an idea?

@Vordak

As to the first point, I do agree that any strange and unusual abilities that are created must have an underlying (and well thought) explanation. There has been a lot of debate in the past day about realism-vs-creative license. I guess the limitations depend on whether we are building an alternate Earth or a unique world.

The second point is a very clever idea. I like it. Using one tribe as our perspective to travel and discover the world around them. It establishes a point of view from which to begin.

[ClocktowerEchos]

here's a map idea I found.

[Shayd]

@ClocktowerEchos I like it. I can work with that