[OOC] War of The Angelic Trio

[Dracogenius]

@SleepingSilence -- Posting can take awhile, but as stated before, I don't expect the roleplay to be fast-pace. Though, if adaptations have to be made (I don't imagine in current time, but perhaps later on if the turn-order or four day wait presents more problems than imagined), I suppose I can make them... I wouldn't do such without everyone knowing. That'd be rude.

Given that there is a turn order for people to post, yes. If player 3 fails to post for their turn and they are skipped, they will have to wait until it is their turn again to post. Though, this is probably where and when the issue of turn-posting starts to arise; player 3 may be needed for the given situation, such as they are playing with the most interaction at the moment, or about to do something that could change the roleplay's course... I'd like to think someone wouldn't miss their post then, but if it calls for their post being important in the very moment and everyone else agrees, I'll let them post. In exchange, they now have a new turn in the post-order. Such should be discussed OOC since it's a thing that we all should be aware about.

I don't wish to bend over backwards on my rules, but I suppose I can if there is a majority in agreement.

For your turn-order example with eight days, if two players do not go, say 4 and 5 do not go, and they do not say anything about not being able to post (they remain silent), then it can take eight days before 6 can post. If 4 pops in and says they'll post, then players will still be waiting up to four days for 4 to post, implying that 4 takes all those days. If 4 realizes that they can't post in time and let's everyone know in OOC, and allows to be skipped, then I really don't see why we should be sitting around for four days -- then will be the start of 5 to go, and they have 4 days to respond. But yes, implying that two players go silent and use up their four days, it can take eight days for a response. That's pretty long, but I'd like to think such wouldn't happen. Four days is a good amount of time, even if one only ends up making a rough draft outline for others to play along with; I understand that someone may write faster or slower than another, but four days should be a generous amount of time to write the minimum of two paragraphs.

Yes, and I suppose you may be right, but I will be sticking with the rule for now. As much as I would like to expect more to join, I simply can't plan it. Especially now the roleplay is off the ground, I'm not sure how many would be willing to jump in. I don't like to depend on the possibility of it either. It's not promised.

Here's an idea that crossed my mind, but iffy about

You don't have to throw all your characters into one post I suppose. I can make arrangements to have each character a player has to go in a different order... It sounds chaotic, but can be done. In example with Wisp's characters, maybe they want Cordelia and Ichabod on one post and Picard and Auberon on another. Or have all four of them in separate posts. They can do that, but their posts will still be part of a turn order... And once they do this, I don't wanna see them condense all their characters back to one post. So, if anytime you have characters possibly interacting with each other on long or short period of time, then... In general that'd be a kinda bad idea, given the circumstances, but I suppose since I have now put the offer on the table and if a player finds it easier that way, then be my guest to have separate turns for characters. Though, two characters can't be directly next to each other in post order; there has to be player between the one playing more than one character.

I believe this can get messy fast if someone has a post that should be combining characters. I don't want to give the player a turn advantage by the means of "well since these two characters did that in one post, and my next post should be the other character, so i can do more of this with these two characters!". So, I might shove that idea back into the closet, but it's a thing I thought of and players, if so interested, may contact my co-GM about. They'll gladly make a turn-order list just to keep track of this.

I have to head off to lessons. I'm sure this only complicated things, but I tried.

As for everyone else, when I return from lessons and a bit of packing I shall post my response (now including pings! Wow!).

[SleepingSilence]

@Dracogenius Once again, I appreciate the response.

The only thing I will say, the idea of adding a character restriction AND order on top of the original turn order will probably not fix the problem, it will only make it worse. Because if you work that into my characters for instance, trying to limit each turn's post to one character (or whoever was posted first.) That being Eros, Erebus would need to be solely in the second post and since he was going to have a conversation with Eros in my next post. Splitting up characters in a turn order would make my conversation between the two characters literally take forever to complete. It would frankly cripple Wisp or anyone with even more characters than that. And coming up with some weird restriction like these two characters, and these two the next. Would make things unnecessarily complicated.

Also I didn't elaborate on my other idea, because I forgot and didn't feel like writing more. But I'll make it clearer. Yes, you would have to actually explain the rule, before doing it. So everyone signing up would be aware of the rule. It's usually was done for people were busy during certain days and just wanted a friend to post from them. Though I usually use it, to make people characters that drop out of the RP, make their exit or die horribly so people reading have a smoother read and not have characters that appear and never show up again. It's done to make the crazy people that read others RP's to enjoy it more, as it makes it a more cohesive narrative and it gets rid of loose ends. Long going RP's tend to have, that 'one guy' dropping out midway, like so many RP's have. So letting the character being controlled and removed from the RP, instead of just letting whatever they were doing drop suddenly. Is what that idea is meant to achieve, you can't actually do it here because it wasn't apart of the rules. I'm just saying I've heard of RP's with certain rules, but I've never quite seen an enforced turn order. But like I said, I'll see how things go.

[Wisp]

@SleepingSilence
Honestly, I'm not seeing the complication. People shouldn't relying on interacting with their own characters - sometimes it's unavoidable, but we all have other characters we can interact with. Aside from the fact that I post for all of my characters in a single post, I counted the interaction between Picard and Cordelia as Picard's post, and Cordelia's post just continued off of it. So there was no problem with having my two characters interact and it therefore doesn't "cripple" me or "literally take forever". It's a simple solution - the dialogue is restricted to a single character's post, since they're your own characters and you're not waiting on anyone else. Then you move on with the rest of your post for that character!

[SleepingSilence]

@Wisp
You're not seeing the complication of what? Turn order or his other suggestion. I could show you how absolutely convoluted it could become...and I wrote far too much to respond to this, so I limited it to parts, in case I misread parts of your post.

Turn Order.

Okay, under the assumption you think adding a character turn order, isn't adding to the problem. So you see nothing, that could become an issue?Like nothing? At all...? Alright, I didn't bring this up because I didn't want to press the issue, but one of the MANY problems, is just how much is discourages, other people from joining in...(especially the character turn order idea.)

Just with the post turn order, with the 7-8 people in this roleplay, say the 9th (newest) person joins in the RP. But, the last person to post was Draco (being first) That means, to follow the proper rules, he would have to wait for (8 players, 4 days each.) Over a month. To be okay with posting...How is it not completely clear how absolutely absurd that is?

His suggestion to make a character have a turn order, along with posting order

Now, let's add in a character rule/turn order on top of that. Let's go with the simplest single character per post. For just everyone we have right now.
1. A B C D E
2. A B C D
3. A
4. A B
5. A
6. A B
7. A B
(These is based solely on character section, with each letter representing another. To balance it out, people with more characters would have to post quicker but can't just post twice in a row. So balancing it would reasonably look something like this...)
1A 2A 3A 4A 1B 5A 2B 6A 1C 7A 2C 1D 4B 6B 1E 2D 7B

If that doesn't already look beyond fucking complicated...NOW add another person...with three of their own characters...Where would they be put in the time line?

Imagine trying to have a character conversation, when you have to wait for 5-10 different posts, to get to that specific character. With that order in place, my Erebus would have to wait for six people to post, and if it still applied to the 4 days rule. Yes, adding more complications would probably make it more complicated...

Just assuming of course.

AND EVEN IF, you were to say, split your character count up. Say people with 4 characters, post two of the same each time. If your one character, needs to talk to the other one (from the other post).

So, 2. A/C followed by B/D. Are your turn order posts. A has to discuss something with D.

You have to now wait, god knows how long. And your 2nd character has to find something irrelevant to do. Which just drags the RP, reading the RP and the writer down.

More about turn order.

So, I'm fine with just leaving on the turn order, even if it still has it's problems to be perfectly honest. (like having new players, eager to join but literally cannot post. Which the first post of the RP, is usually when they are the most likely to enjoy it. And all that limitation does, is to most likely stop people that are accepted from posting right away.)

You also don't see the problem of people having to write in turn with 4 character's every single time? Don't you think that could become tiring and you not having actual plot important things for certain characters making the writing involving them, complete fluff? And you can't really say it was easy, because it took literally forever for the RP to start. :P

Specifically because of the turn order, and it almost makes my point for me. Draco was busy, but it makes sense the GM, should post the first response. But no matter how ready you were to post something, nothing could get done...I don't know if he used all 5 characters. But having to write for more characters, will obviously take more time. And creating people to make more posts, will also take more time. So by either forcing one character to go at a time. Or by forcing every character have to post, in your turn's post. It is wasting time for everyone else.

Also while you may have a point, that MOST role plays shouldn't require your characters interacting with themselves...certain theme's in RP's may make it FAR more likely for that to take place, and adding king's and people of authority and soldiers. It wouldn't make any sense for their to be zero personal character interaction since this RP is entirely based on ranking. For instance, Erebus and Eros. Since soldiers should be constantly going back and forth, in order to follow their kings various orders.

This is just in case you said, one character should talk per post...If not ignore this...

So youe saying 'limiting one character talking per post', makes my next idea. Of a conversation between my characters over strategy and character building, AT least take 3 posts. So one for Erebus to speak, another for Eros to respond. Erebus to tell Eros go away and him to leave without replying again. So, that would cause, me to wait (since I'm 5.) For 1,2,3,4 (Erebus post) 6,7,1,2,3,4. (Eros reply.) 6,7,1,2,3,4 (They both leave). Would cause me to possibly wait up to 64 days...To finish one single conversation, that could be all done in one post fairly easily, if multiple characters can speak per post. >.>

[MonsieurShade]

If I might pop in here for a second? I've always just operated under a self imposed "wait two posts before posting again" rule. The only times I would typically fail to post again after the aforementioned two posts would be either because A: I engaging in dialogue or actions with one specific person where others could not respond, B: I had no idea what to post, or C: I was busy. In the case of the last two I would usually make mention of the issues at hand. I find that waiting for 'X' amount of posts to go by before a person posts again rather than having a turn order is one of the easier ways of getting things to remain smooth. The tricky part is to make sure everyone is properly tagged in a post and/or ensure that two people interacting are not doing so in a manner that would be considered important for plot reasons/ severely interfere with things chronologically. The tagging posts bit is fairly simple, just clicking the mention/quote button will do, though the chronological issue might be a bit more difficult. In the end I find that the best way to solve that issue is by having interactions that have been frozen in place for a bit be mentioned and treated as though they occurred in past tense before having the characters transition over to what ever may be happening currently.

[SleepingSilence]

@MonsieurShade Yeah, usually most people try to self censor themselves with posting, to not flood the IC too much. Two posts before you go next is a pretty fair way to go. Usually try to do something similar.

Well, one thing I've seen this forum do often, to solve a problem of interactions by collabing and posting into one big collab. But this RP pretty much forbids that with it's turn order of posts. Though even that kind of goes into some questions I could ask, like they both posted twice, So will they have to do that every single time? Probably not, but it didn't really help. I agree it would be easier, avoiding an exact turn order and the normal common sense approach is easier to remember and gives newbies the ability to jump in at any point. But that's also just my opinion.

(This isn't for you.)
Actually I know of another possible response I may get, like what they meant was something different and I can actually say the other possible option won't work well either. That character turn order meaning. If someone had 3 characters, lets say. A B C. You could post them all in one post or not, but they'd have to be an order lets say B A C. So B would be first, in your post than A. etc. But if we did that with my two characters. Eros was first, so that means Erebus would HAVE to be second.

So to implement this idea. Eros would have to respond to questions that Erebus hasn't asked yet. As Erebus will call him to his throne room to ask him questions, I'd have to respond, to put answers before writing the questions, that would be a literal nightmare to read. So that doesn't work, and is incredibly complicated too...

[Dracogenius]

I looked at this, I stressed. I looked back at this, continued to stress. I absolutely cannot tolerate anymore of this. Cheers, I suppose.

---

@Wisp @MonsieurShade @Cubix @AimeChambers @urukhai @SleepingSilence

Rules have been updated. Read them. Specifically the following:

Respond with two relevant paragraphs when you post for each character. There is no posting order, but do not over-post.
A paragraph is three to six sentences long.
Whatever over-posting is to you, don't do it.
Only GM and Co-GM can push time along in the roleplay.
You do not get to say if it's the next day, evening, afternoon, and so on.
Romance and violence will be limited; do not go overboard.
PG-13; Kissing is alright, no sexual content present.
No detailed gore.

No more turn order. I don't know what over-posting may be to you, but just don't do it. Space your posts out as you see fit. I already have a slight dread in having to trust people on this decision. The other rule is present for players' comfort and reading.

No player will advance time in the roleplay; only GM and co-GM can declare when a significant amount of time has passed (a time period that is considerably going from morning to midday, or 9 PM in the evening to 5 AM). Yes, two paragraphs minimum for each character, and that's final. If anyone has any questions, comments, or concerns... I suppose you can PM me, but no promises that they will not go ignored for a little while.

I do not plan to change rules anytime soon after this, and in fact would prefer not to. If clarifications must be made, I will make them. That is all. Back to writing up my IC post. Thank you for your time and eyes.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dracogenius I apologize if the discussion was stressful, didn't mean it to be. Read the rules and they're perfectly understood.

[MonsieurShade]

@Dracogenius I'm also sorry that this has become a point of stress to you. I've read the update as well.

[Dracogenius]

It is fine. I'm far more calmed down than I was before... I forgive both, assuming it was not within your intentions.

I posted just now, but would like to make a quick note on things (specifically for those pinged in my post already, @Cubix & @urukhai)

Though Cubix posted before urukhai, I found it easier to write in that Rancor would appear after Olifina and Hadrian due to the entries presented. The last portion of urukhai's post has them already present in the room, ready to be interacted with, and within Cubix's post, Rancor is knock knock knocking on Heaven's door. Well, not literally, but still knocking. I still also know that Serenity, AimeChambers's character, is still present, and given that urukhai's post didn't seem to touch on Serenity being there but Cubix's post did, I went with my best assumption that Olifina and Hadrian were present before Serenity and Rancor.

I apologize if I misread your post, urukhai. I reread it a couple times and decided that my best take on it was to manage with this specific order. I hope this didn't create any problems for you.

In other news, Valentine's post isn't present because he's waiting on Auberon's response to arrive (assuming it's in the middle of being sent) and Caymdahr's response (no rush; just explaining why Valentine isn't being touched upon just yet). I apologize to Wisp if they are stuck without anything for Cordelia at this moment. Cordelia knows how to twiddle her thumbs though, right?

In other news, I hope you all are proud of me for one particular line in my response. Now, I shall proceed to paint my dragon-y nails until more posts arrive.

[urukhai]

I read the new rules and sorry if my wording made some confusion, twas not my intent

[Cubix]

I detected a pun, and I am not sure how to feel about it.

[Dracogenius]

@urukhai -- No worries! It hasn't brought too much confusion just yet. Though a little bit more clarification will be nice whenever you can, but just keep that in mind for next time.

[AimeChambers]

Nity must find a good way to eavesdrop without being caught! <(^w^<)

[SleepingSilence]

@Dracogenius I apologize, but I think I may also drop out of this RP. I have various reasons, but mainly because I have another group I wish to RP with which will require more time, and to your own admittance, this role play will go at a slower pace and I just wanted something a little faster. I figure it won't cause too many problems in the story since your characters are involved with pretty much everyone's beside mine. So I'll just delete my first post, and continue on without me.

Sorry for the inconvenience, hope everything goes well. ^_^

[Wisp]

@SleepingSilence
We're sorry to hear that! While it is a little disruptive, with you playing an important role like you are, we're glad you didn't wait to tell us! The roleplay is only just starting, so there's not much inconvenience, don't worry!
Good luck in your endeavors!
Also, can you possibly edit your CS post? Just so nobody new who joins gets confused!

[Emma]

I would love to be queen of the kingdom of Lucifer.

[Wisp]

@Emma
That would be fantastic! This roleplay could definitely use some more queens!
(We look forward to a character sheet!)

[Emma]

Ok I was Planning on making the Queen of the Lucifer Kingdom: the daughter of the Original king (Fallen Angel Lucifer/Hades) and his wife the (angel or curse human??) Persephone. I would be taking bits and pieces from the original greek myth. But the queen I am making would be called Melinoe as based off the greek goddess too...

Does that work for this RP?
And if it does work, what race would Melinoe be: Demon, Human, Angel, curse or blessed?

[Wisp]

@Emma For easy reference, I'm answering everything in bullet points! If you need clarification, let me know!

• I'm afraid your idea won't work in this roleplay, as interesting as it is. Hades and Lucifer are not interchangeable here. Lucifer is an archangel, and Hades is a god. In terms of power and what they are, they're vastly different in this roleplay.
• Lucifer and the other archangels never ruled the kingdoms that hold their names - the kingdoms were just named in their honour.
• The ruler of the kingdom of Lucifer specifically rules by power - it's a monarchy not ruled by family line, but by whoever fights their way to the top. Sometimes, though, a family line can be powerful enough to hold the throne for an extended period of time.
• For future reference, children of demons and angels work like this; their children are always human. A human child can be possessed by either an angel or a demon, but the child of an angel or demon will always be human, regardless of their parentage. That human child can also be either blessed or cursed by an angel or demon.

I was thinking - if you really want to have a character that's the child of a pair like Hades and Persephone, you could have a demon and a cursed/blessed human that had a child, who would be human, but then was either cursed or possessed by a demon, or maybe even blessed by an angel. It's always interesting to consider a demon parent cursing their own child, though. With that power, she'd be able to hold the throne in Lucifer, as long as whatever her power/ability is happens to be able to be weaponized.
(Her parents could even be the former king and queen of the kingdom - why they would give up the throne is up to you.)