Cu Chulainn

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@Turboshitter
I only have the very bare bones of my other Lancer concept, and it'd take me time to actually put it through into something satisfying that would actually help the team.

I'd much rather prefer True!Benkei mainly because I want to see his dynamic with the other Servants and Masters introduced so far. I'm very much aware, especially from the source it's based off of, that this roleplay is a PvE-centric one, but I'm also sure we're in it to make a story. I'm fine if someone finds a sensible way to escape Benkei's duel NP. I'm fine if the enemy has plot armor against Benkei's Dread Visage. I'm fine with pretty much everything that would make the enemy an actual threat to us. I just wanted to play as a Heroic Spirit, with all the badassery it's supposed to entail, with a character that would interact with the current (and future) cast in an interesting sort of way.

I'm not trying to power play, but it's just that, as you said, we stole artifacts that would belong to pretty strong Servants, and I myself want to play an actual true Heroic Spirit, not some obscurity that just barely manages to be qualified as one.

But if this really is too much of a conflict, I'll just find some other Lancer after all.

@vancexentan

Actually, he was designed in the same mindset as the other Apocrypha Servants, since they intended him to make him for Apocrypha before they made it into a Light Novel.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@TurboshitterImitation Benkei is a fate/grand order hero as well. I'd like to keep in mind that it is not known for it's accuracy on many servants. More over Imitation Benkei is walking off the legend of the original as well. I'll let it go if you insist on it but it is my integrity as a GM to argue points that i do, and do not believe should be brought in for which ever character is at hand.

@vancexentan

Imitation Benkei's stats were made before Grand Order. All they did for him when he was added to Grand Order was remove two of his weaker NPs and add ranks to his Personal Skills. His actual stats were unchanged.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Hmmmmmmm... honestly, I'm not quite sure what to make of this right now. I don't really object to Benkei when taken as a whole, however I'm not fond of the FC or the way Dread Visage is being utilized here. I get that it suits his legend, but the way it does next to nothing feels a bit tacked on.

Alright, how about this. I'll allow Dread Visage to inflict a stat penalty on the afflicted, but in exchange, True!Benkei should have the same stats as Fake!Benkei, or he should at least have the same STR and END. Is that agreeable, @Cu Chulainn and @vancexentan?

@Turboshitter

I'm already down to reduce his Strength and I edited it in, but his Endurance is something I'd like him to keep. He's supposed to be a defensive threat, anyway and not an offensive one. As for his Dread Visage skill, I just came up with something in the realm of making it more balanced by saying the fear is from the magic of his presumed Oni heritage, which would make Magic Resistance work against it.

@Cu ChulainnLu Bu is literally the embodiment of terror in the early three kingdoms period. The dude doesn't have a skill of that sort either. Turbo has convinced me to loose my stance on the matter and just let it through regardless but I still believe it is unwarranted. Because unlike his Diarmuid's lovespot it effects everyone, and magical resistance doesn't cancel it out only remote skills like bravery, or madness enhancement do.

Edit: as for stats I am still adamant that strength be demoted to B. He isn't a Greek, or roman super hero, and he's not a super knight like a charlamange paladin, or a knight of the round table.

@vancexentan

The only Lu Bu we've seen in Fate was a Berserker who was already said to be modified in some way due to the nature of his summoning, addded with the fact that Mad Enhancement seals Personal Skills.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@Turboshitter@vancexentan

It's a bit hard for me to think of ways to nerf Dread Visage at this moment without it being made too redundant for its rank. I'm actually a bit deprived on sleep at the moment, so it's definitely on me, but the closest thing I've thought of was making Magic Resistance also factor in to whether or not it would affect someone or not, even though it technically isn't magic that makes him look spooky.

As for its redundancy, it's actually one of the important things that are made clear in his legend. Taking away his ogre-like visage is like scraping off Diarmuid's Love Spot, honestly. It's one of those things in a person's legend that differentiates them from another hero, and it being there doesn't seem redundant in the slightest. It is a distinguishing part of his legend, so I'd rather it stayed.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>



A lot of mental interference skills impose a stat penalty, so you might wanna make note of that if this isn't supposed to do that. Though if all this skill does is make people think he's spooky, I kinda have to wonder if it's really necessary for him to have it. Are you sure he really, absolutely needs this? We can try to accommodate it if you think he does, but it might be easier to just drop it.

@Turboshitter

It's actually part of his legend that his spookiness shook the hearts of people. In some variations of it, he actually does dress like an oni in order to aid in intimidating people.



I went with the FC I chose because it makes him look pretty oni-like already.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Hmmmm... you have a point. If you want STR back up to A, you could give True!Benkei the same B+ Rank that Fake!Benkei has for END. If you'd prefer to keep his END at A+ and still have A STR though... well, I'd have to consider it, but I won't rule it out. Maybe you could nerf LCK or MAG again xP

As for the dueling NP, I'm just concerned about what happens if he traps Caster or Assassin in there because it's the first time they've fought and they have no idea he's mothafuckin' Benkei. That essentially allows Benkei to net a free kill before Black Faction catches on, and while it's hardly unfair given that this is a PvE RP, it does make my life marginally more difficult xP

Will he give chase once he traps them there or does he simply stand in one place waiting for them to attack? Can you simply refuse to fight, or try outlasting him by returning to spirit form?

@Turboshitter

I think I'll go with having a B rating to Strength, most likely. His Agility is still suck, especially for the likes of a Lancer, though. And I like where his MGI and LCK are currently. MGI because if it were any lower, he might risk killing his Master, and LCK because he was also a Buddhist Warrior Monk, and faithful people tend to have higher luck anyway. (Jeanne's was a C rating as well, despite being turned to BBQ.) A Luck nerf might make sense though since Lancer Class Containers have shitty luck anyway.

Now for the dueling NP. They could probably "retreat" in their spirit form, although that does sound like a vast oversight. Then again, Nasuverse is full of oversights. Honestly I'd rather prefer they didn't, though, as it'd turn all duels into just "kek bye bye." Plus, I don't recall any Servants quickly retreating into their spiritual form when the tides turn against them. Quickly, I mean.

Benkei's an honorable guy and probably would just go "you're not worth my time foo" if the person he forces to duel is too annoying or cowardly, and might just end it there. If not for that, I'll find a reason, because plot armor + even if it's a PvE roleplay. we're still telling a story, and I'd rather not just have the story result in "oh, all the squishy enemies died first, lol."

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

Yes but it also puts in a mental pollution element which would effect everyone with no equivalent skill of bravery. It becomes a game changer if the opponent is either too scared to fight at their best, or is overtly cautious.

@vancexentan

I suppose it's my bad for exaggerating the description of its effects, but it's not that much of a threat. In reality, it'd only really be a game changer against cowardly foes. Most Heroic Spirits tend to be strong-willed in some respect, even without a skill like Bravery, and it could be argued that some Heroic Spirits who have fought similarly demonic-looking creatures in their legend would have some sort of resistance to it. In other words, to most Heroes, it'd be more like a "this guy is pretty spooky I should be wary" rather than a "oh boy its a demon I gotta play 200% defensively."

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

The strength nerf to B would be appreciated. If you want, you may increase MAG or LCK to B. And the dueling NP isn't of much concern to me, though I would like to know if it's possible to retreat or refuse the duel. Like I said in my post above, what concerns me is exactly what qualifies as fatal for his EX-Rank NP. What wounds besides arrows might kill him standing up? Could you stab him in the back or the heart? Could you decapitate him?

@Turboshitter

I decreased his strength accordingly, although it's a bit weird that Fake!Benkeiis now faster and marginally stronger than him. Not trying to argue it, but just putting it out there that it's odd to me.

The duel is supposed to be a line-in-the-sand kind of thing where he, if we're going MMO terms, "draws aggro from a singular threatening person." In other words, it's a forced challenge. I could decrease the range, but I'm afraid of the risk of making it too weak for its actual capabilities and what it aims to represent.

As his EX-Ranked NP, you can do things like chop his head off or stab him, but remember that his defenses also raise to immeasurable proportions. A conceptual attack like Gae Bolg would do the trick, but he's basically a wall once it's up.

Also, the previous picture I posted would have worked if I went with a Not Japanese Servant, in my honest opinion. Too much Western influences on the art.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

why a japanese servant hanging around the great wall of china anyway

@Grey

Blatent racism.

@Turboshitter@vancexentan

If any balancing is needed, I could rank down his STR, since he has Monstrous Strength anyway (which wouldn't have as much of a notable effect if his Strength was that high to begin with, anyway,) but even False Benkei has pretty high across the board stats, and his own EX-Ranked Noble Phantasm that's marginally more ridiculous.

He's supposed to be a more slow and rooted Servant overall, which means he can't really abuse his duel NP. If the enemy Assassin or Caster or other squishy gets in the range of it's really all on them if they can't outrun him before he uses it.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@Cu Chulainn So fucking awesome sounding? I SEE NO NEGATIVES WITH THIS PLAN!

@Vocab

But then the gatling guns would shoot nukes, and nukes aren't fun when you're a JAPANESE SERVANT