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    1. Cu Chulainn 9 yrs ago
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1 yr ago
Current caulk
1 like
2 yrs ago
HOLY NUTS I WAS A MEMBER OF THIS WEBSITE FOR 8 YEARS?!?!
4 likes
2 yrs ago
Okay, now I'm back.
2 yrs ago
I'm back, probably.
3 likes
3 yrs ago
its been a week and i still dont feel 24...

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@1Charak2

Poison sounds nice...

until you forgrt your weapon is poisoned and cut open a wound in your hand so your Mana Burst (Flame) can actually do some noticable damage
@Turboshitter@vancexentan

Here is Lancer with the modifications requested.

I'm still feeling iffy about how Lancer requires a skill to further state that he's not actually a god. He never confirmed or denied that he was a God when reading back in his lifetime (or at least, it wasn't written that he did or did not). Innocent Monster also implies that his reputation as the Sun God caused his whole reputation to change in the public eye. We can't say his cruelty grants him Innocent Monster since Sadistic Constitution already does that, too. I'd just rather Lancer not have such a skill, especially in line with how Mana Burst (Flames) served as a good explanation to how he can barely access the authority of the Divine - He draws upon the power of the Aztec Divine Spirits, not his own. Additionally, he pretty much has what amounts to a whopping 6 Personal Skills if we were being real with Lancer's Riding skill.

Adding on to the reason why I don't think an extra skill is necessary, remember that these skills would provide the user with benefits. Lancer would basically have too much beneficial skills. This goes especially in line with Divinity since it has limitless applications from breaking through protection such as Protection of the Faith or Enlightenment of the Fig Tree, to giving the Servant the ability to hurt Achilles without aiming for his heel.

Basically, he already has alot of skills as is, as well as one that makes enough sense to explain where he gets the things his association with the Sun God nets him. Giving him Innocent Monster, or especially Divinity adds more power to an already pretty strong Servant, and I'd rather not do that, so if it's still under negotiation, I'd rather not have it necessary for him to have an extra skill that just says "oh he's not a god" when he already has a few that already do.

Anyway, here's Wonderwall.


@vancexentan@Turboshitter@1Charak2

How does an unranked skill in Divinity (False) sound? I can probably think of a more interesting name, by the way. It'll work similarly to Karna's Uncrowned Arms Mastership (which is also unranked) where until his true name is revealed, he appears to be qualified as a Divine Spirit for all effects that would detect such. (so basically a pseudo Divinity A.)
<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Granted, but I feel like there should at least be some justification for it, even if it's just cosmetic. I mean, people in modern times don't actually believe Vlad Tepes was a vampire, and no one I know thinks Elizabeth Bathory was part dragon. Yet they have those skills regardless because at one point in time, whether past or future, that's how they were perceived by a large number of people. If the natives believed he was a god, then he should qualify, regardless of the truth or what people believe about him today (or even what his own people believed about him, as demonstrated with Vlad).

As for his horse, I'll grant that. It's unconventional for a Lancer to have a summoned mount, but it's happened before on rare occasions and without the horse the NP loses a key weakness. The NP itself also can't be modified or removed without gouging out a large part of Pedro's legend.

However, I will insist on Innocent Monster or a low, low rank in Divinity (whichever you feel is more appropriate or justified), as his connection to the sun god needs to be explained and quantified in some fashion rather than just being an informal attribute. Also, I believe his Disengage should be a bit lower, because as it is, he's better at making an escape than our resident Assassin, and that seems wonky.


I'd like to cite the more recent Fate/Apocrypha Lancer Vlad. He doesn't have Innocent Monster as a skill, or any skill that denotes to him being Dracula (with Demonic Defender of State only alluding to his real life viciousness as to how he defended Wallachia) and only one of his Noble Phantasms alludes to his more worldwide famous legend of being Dracula. This is in comparison to the Fate/Extra Vlad, who does indeed have Innocent Monster as a Skill but was summoned in more specific/special circumstances whereas Apocrypha!Vlad was summoned in a setting much closer to a traditional Holy Grail War.

Both Innocent Monster and Divinity seem inappropriate for him to have, although if it's necessary, I suppose a Divinity (False) rank might work, similarly to how Imperial Privilege at a high rank can make someone insist they're a god.
@Turboshitter@vancexentan

I explained on my previous/most recent (not counting this) post a few things in your requests, such as why skills like Innocent Monster aren't really qualifiable in Lancer's case, and the nature of Lancer's third NP in regards to his own horse. I will also further clarify that the Horse isn't the NP, but that the NP only takes effect on this specific horse. The reason why the horse is important is because this NP isn't supposed to be as reliable as it is if summoned as a Rider.

As for Lancer's first NP, I've clarified that those who fail the Luck check get a pretty hefty Agility rank-down to symbolize them being on their knees; they're slower, but it's the possibility to escape is alot higher. As for the quantification of the Luck Check, stat checks in Fate are pretty ambiguous as a whole, so it's hard to find a number for them. It'd probably entail the luck check equivalent to its Noble Phantasm Rank, which is B.
Apologies for the double post, but I'd like to just make a few things clear in regards to Pedro, since there are a few arguments against some of his abilities.

Firstly, I'd like to apologize if I sounded like I was argumentative. I was balancing a few other things on my end and I just wanted to back up my sheet especially since this isn't the first time I've been into conflict due to the things the Servant I'm putting up can or can't do.

As for his abilities in question

Firstly, I'm very much willing to part with Lancer's third NP seeing the circumstances, although I was arguing as to why I believe it should stay. As said, it isn't a pure mount NP, and if required, I can clarify that it is a mental effect that takes place if Lancer was on his mount, and not that it is his mount in question. His capabilities of summoning his mount is coming from how some non-Rider Servants can some their own mounts as well, with Lancer!Artoria being an example. I'll further explain that the mount isn't special in any way, save that it is special in the same way a mundane, non-NP weapon a Heroic Spirit would have if summoned is. Plus, there's multiple instances of Heroic Spirits having Noble Phantasms that seem sensible for another class to have. Like Lancelot, or even Fate/Apocrypha's confirmed best girl Astolfo, who literally has a lance as one of his NPs. (Astolfo's also to Roland as Pedro is to Cortez in terms of his renown, yet he has a whole lot of Noble Phantasms as well, but that's another argument altogether.)

Secondly, to the argument of his skills being conflicting, they don't really seem to be so, and they were chosen within reason. He doesn't have the blood of a divine spirit, he isn't revered as a saint like Saint George or Saint Martha, and he wasn't actually worshiped. The reason why he has powers stemming from false divinity is because it's in association with his legend. Even if he wanted to be a god, which he probably would have given his character, he still doesn't have the aptitude for being a divine spirit. Innocent Monster also isn't something he qualifies for since it's a skill based off of distortions of one's monstrous reputation. Pedro does not have a reputation for being a god, it's just from how he was believed to be one by a few natives that adds to his legend. Mana Burst (Flames) is the closest thing to a skill that denotes his false divinity, and his Second NP doesn't just draw from the association, although that association is a core part of it.

For Lancer's second NP, the reasoning behind its measured power is due to multiple factors. 1, it's a false divine authority based off of Lancer's association with the sun gods, and true divine authorities are much, much stronger in power. Lancer's able to draw upon the associated powers that his false divinity entails purely because it associates to his legend. 2, it's also a culmination of his destructive nature. 3, I also compared it to Galatine, which isn't a sword whose legend is known very much, yet has similar destructive power to Balmung. All in all, it's an attack drawing upon divine power (even if it's false), as well as what Pedro de Alvarado is most known for; his ruthless, destructive nature.

Lastly, the reason why he has a lot of NPs is because he did quite a bit more in his legends as well as in history than a few others. Many top-tier Heroic Spirits who have less NPs have NPs that are conceptually stronger than Pedro's because they're known for their sole feats, or that their NPs are a culmination of one famous act they've gained renown for. It's like how Astolfo has a bunch, yet he isn't well known, and that's because of the many stories surrounding him.
@VitaVitaAR

Yes. Makes everything easier, since I'm on Discord more than half the time, and we can discuss which is or isn't possible faster in terms of combat
<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Drawing on Legends (of being seen as the sun god) which you say he denies seems to counteract his personality. As drawing on that power would make his statement on not wanting to be seen as that, kinda hypocritical. So if he did have them They would probably be sealed until forced out by a command seal.

Purely put his powers are conflicting.


I'd like to state that I was only using the example of "rejecting his divinity" because I actually didn't do research on the Divinity skill.

I'm not saying he's actually denying his Divinity anymore because after doing more research on the topic, he definitely does not have any aptitude to being a Divine Spirit, which is what the Divinity skill is supposed to do. In fact, seeing as how he's pretty vilified and enjoys conquering, he would insist that he is a God. Divinity doesn't come from just saying you're a god, or from people believing you're a god based upon looks. Divinity comes from actually having aptitude as a divine spirit, whether it be being a demigod, actually ascending as a god in legend, or otherwise. You can't self-suggest that you are a god, and suddenly go to the afterlife where gods go. He's drawing upon that legend of being the Sun God similarly to how Vlad would draw upon his legend as Dracula, except now that I did my actual research, he definitely wouldn't reject to being.

As for him being a devout Catholic, that was also stated in the mindset that I didn't actually do my research on the Divinity skill. Based upon his actual wanton cruelty and destructive history, he most definitely isn't a devout in the sense that Jeanne D'Arc or Saint George are. His spear was blessed, and that's because of an actual written legend that he was blessed by the Virgin Mary.
<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

If his powers are by association which he denies due to his devout Catholicism. Then half of his stuff makes no sense and seems tacked as it conflicts which his denial of god hood.


After doing research on all canon Heroic Spirits who do have Divinity, I believe I have to correct myself. It's not even a denial of his supposed godhood, if we're being technical. His divinity isn't speculated, it just isn't there. He isn't a divine spirit, nor is he related to one, nor is he worshiped in the way a saint is. There aren't any cults to Pedro de Alvarado, and his skills come from what the natives saw him as. He never ascended as a divine spirit, and if he did, then pretty much all foreigners/conquistadors of his time should be divine spirits then, since he isn't the only foreigner that could have been mistook for a God due to his foreign looks.

He's not a god. He's not part god. He's not worshipped as a god. No real aptitude for Divinity. He's just drawing on the power of the legends where he's associated with the Sun God, just like how other Heroic Spirits draw upon their own legends to produce their various abilities.
<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Secret of pedigree can be seen as something similar to Lancelots skill that also masks who they are.

I think the entire character is one of confliction. Denies his divinity due to being a devout follower of the lord. Yet the second noble phantasm and the mana burst are a direct result of his 'divinity'. If you remove NP 2 and the mana burst. Then you have yourself the devout conquestor.

The other half is a percieved sun god, which you say he denies. Thus making those skills hypocritical.


He gains his power by association, not by actually being a perceived god, as explained multiple times on his sheet. Giving him Divinity or Innocent Monster is just giving him another skill, which in turn is giving him more benefits. Technically he'd have way too much skills as a result.
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