Dinh AaronMk

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Awwww come on dude, let's just play :)

@Frengo

Wiliy can literally now insert himself at a distance into every other conflict and become the decision maker based on big gun diplomacy as opposed to anything interesting. He has satellites and no doubt being unfinished he will have much more that gives him the card to directly play story lines into his benefits.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

Read through the whole RP killing conversation and I must say that the RP is for story purposes and, as insane as this sounds, its also for fun and I'm not going to get everything 100% correct with technology, which is why I set out the "Fallout" like standard, its a base for what technology should be around, maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more. If I see an app that is inherently Overpowered then I will not accept it, and so far no app that I've seen is overpowered.

@MetalLover

>No app is overpowered
>Wiliy has literal ICBM's despite his claims.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

Oh, you meant the lack of civilization? Oh, except the fact every game has several developed cities around.
If a player's nation is more established than a ragtag government then what? The rest of the world is still shit.
You're worrying over nothing.
So long a player doesn't powergame it's all right in my book.

@Willy Vereb

The thing with Fallout is: most of the cities are small city-states anyways, and the possession of high-tech has mostly always been on a minority to the point that it's self-contained. Unlike here where the possession of one suit seems to imply that a nation can continue to manufacture existing ones. The materials and supplies of Fallout have been a successive series of working on what came before it. And there was only one faction capable of somehow manufacturing new stuff: The Enclave. The Institute more recently but they're on a severe small scale compared to Osaka and this RP's Denmark or your Yellowstone.

The rest of the Fallout world had to make due with reproducing what was left behind for them. No one was making any new FEV and no one was building new reactors. They were moving about pre-existing parts to re-fab what they needed.

The issue with the way it's being done here is that people are forgetting it and think they can all be NCR around the time of New Vegas; which as a passing reminder I'll toss out they didn't even build their Power Suits, they stole from the BoS who in turn adopted them from the US Army when the world went tits up. So even in the BoS' case they were recycling the previous world and were not carrying out independent, fresh manufacture.

Similarly, the capacity of the vaults was not to continue producing Pip-Boys which meant they were in a severe short supply. Some laptops here might survive but that's it: the global infrastructure isn't in place to produce more just like new Pip-Boys aren't being made in Fallout's world.

There is a rarity to Fallout's high-tech that's being ignored here when everyone can claim to have all the high-tech and produce it flagrantly.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

CNTs wouldn't even be a new, exciting, or resource-insensitive article of technology in 2080.

Seriously, 2080 is 65 years from now. By 2080, railguns and lasers won't be revolutionary, powered exoskeletons will pretty much be a mature technology, and fusion power will no longer be a novelty. The chasm between 2015 and 2080 will be astronomically more pronounced than the rift between the modern era and the 1940s (which is already mindbogglingly huge).

I'm seeing a gross underestimation of humanity's resourcefulness--specifically our capacity to actually record useful information in books (which will outlast any digital storage medium by a long shot).

@ASTA

[Another post about how the knowledge/theory of a something =/= actually being able to do it]

It's like people forget global supply chains and the manufacturing process.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>So? In spite of your "experience" this is the first time you hear about synthetic rubber? If needed we can make rubber even out of coal.
And sure, in 2080 we still use rubber seals. Especially for underground factories made to last hundreds of years.
Seriously, just stop. Nobody even cares about this detail here. This is fiction. Get your head warped around it.

@Willy Vereb

You just added a serious amount of steps to the production of rubber, at which point when you have the coal just use it directly to make raw power.

You'd need to now render the coal as a gas, which then need to be mixed with butaidiene. Then when that's all done: it needs to be polymerized with a mix of vulcanization chemicals. And where is anyone in the world going to get half of this? It's already an incredibly difficult process.

At this point, just get a fucking rubber tree. You already need the rubber to perform these processes anyhow.

You're really stretching yourself here.

Well, then you read something wrong.
For starters the GM wants a nation game with lots of interactions between players. Not a player versus faceless wasteland setting.

>Implying Fallout-like isn't in the title and most of us not in America totally aren't already separated by huge tracts of empty land that OP promises to fill with "native rebellion" for us to make our lives difficult.

Besides, talk to the players who already have power armors and laser guns here.
I don't see any portion of the setting being destroyed, do you?

The point in this is to cause a stop and reconsideration per the norms of the setting and the otherwise limited confines in respect to laser rifles.

But I'm beginning to suspect OP doesn't really read anything.

Interview the person below you

@Flightless_Soul

No, I'm too boring for that.
Slayer or whatever shitlord stuff the kids are listening to.
I may be boring, but I have standards.

Have you traveled outside of the country?
Have you ever just wanted to fuck off and leave from where you are now?
Rara or Rarara?

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

@Willy Vereb

It would also be worth mentioning that while shelters would be oriented to preserving humanity, total restoration of life prior would be incredibly expensive and entail facilities no doubt larger than need-be. It's more cost effective and relevant for something to be built with labs and units dedicated to learning how to purify water than there is to learning how to totally fab a car or cryogenically freeze air to produce argon gas for nanotube production. Caution and costs would no doubt make planners think more about how to keep dysentery from killing their descendants than how to have as many lasers guns as possible.

The rest can be figured out or re-discovered on the surface. The possible extent of in-shelter manufacturing would be the basic tools and skill for shelter unkeep with spare metal parts to keep fans and wires in check. Anything bigger would mean that you're building a more expensive shelter than need-be with some hard to produce and procure materials inside.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>Yeah, returning to the same would be impossible.
Utilizing the same technology with a different allocation of materials? Absolutely.
You seem to be under the impression that people in the post-apocalyptic world want Toyota cars. No, they just want cars.
And again, future tech+ people in the Vaults literally spent decades to work out measures that can accomplish what they want with the limited resources.
Microchips, for example. Did you know that CNT is so versatile you can pretty much forget all thoe fancy nanoparticles before?
CNT can theoretically also be created by burning coal. Yes. Of course the actual solution would be more complex and I don't wager to tell the solution to something scientists with better qualifications than me are working on right now.
Similarly, electric power. DMFC which is basically a battery converting methanol and oxygen for electricity. Sure, it'd require platina electrodes. Except it doesn't. Why? CNT. Efficiency can be a problem, too. Except CNT solves that. Dem three letters are good.
Where do you get the tools to make these? Underground CNT fab. Like it or not to house hundreds of thousands of people you practically need to build an underground city. So why stop at the base requirements? Especially in case of sci-fi.
And yeah, CNT is promised to work wonders in so many fields. The inner skeptic in me already tells that half of these would eventuall turn out to be sham.
Regardless, this is sci-fi. This is fiction. As others said we aren't making a paper on theoretical development level of people 200 years after an apocalyptic war in 2080. We write a collective story.
So get used to the pew-pew lasers and other technological elements. No, this does not destroy the setting. Again, Fallout is a longshot from the vision you depicted in your previous posts.

@Willy Vereb

The problem with the CNT proposal is that though it might be possible: it's one of those things that aren't possible without rubber. And rubber isn't produced native in much of the world. You're not going to find rubber trees in Europe, North America, and synthetic rubber or poly-vinyl may not be on the list of things to produce in oil-producing regions (they might need to fuel their cars, lights, and basic electricity needs as well).

And even without rubber you need to rely on some heavy engineering and incredibly low temperatures to pull argon gas from the air in cryogenic distillation. But then we come to the issue again that the requirements to meet may not be within reach of present societies.

Rubber and vinyl deteriorates, cracks, and becomes brittle over time. I would know: I handle and deal with this stuff when it fails. Rubber and vinyl is the all important sealant for these processes. When they're over-used and gone then so does the product of this level of refinement. Producing the correct sort of CNTs requires sealed environments either totally free of oxygen or comprising an atmosphere of inert gases.

Allowing this too all the same brings us to the point I made in response to Frengo. It shifts the story from relying on remnants to capable able-bodied nation-states, which at that point we would have already restored the pre-existing nations and it's not really post-apoc in the sort the GM appears to want anymore.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

@Dinh AaronMkYou do raise some good points yet also miss quite a few.
First off, no matter if they drop thousands or even a hundred thousand nukes across the world, infrastructure will not cease altogether. Simply put we don't ever had enough boom for that. Nowadays almost even the smallest settlement in the first world has almost complete infrastructure. At worst the series of electromagnetic pulses make less shielded consumer electronics on the surface useless which kinda sucks but doesn't even slightly effect more protected pieces away from the direct blast zone or especially whatever people save up in bunkers.

The world may shrink, key people may be missing but overall the idea of millions of modern or in this case futuristic humans would spend their time plowing the ground with no mechanization in sight is pretty much impossible. Especially not with the existence of Vaults where supposedly the said key personnel were sent to both retain the knowledge and work out a way to restore civilization once they or their descendants return to the surface.
And again, you seriously underestimate the craftines of a humans during dire times. No, they won't just stand there with open mouths and occasionally complain how it sucks they don't have any tractors.

Lastly, you use Fallout as comparison. As in the sci-fi series with pocket-sized fusion reactors, power armors, laser guns ad infinitum, robotic servants and all that jazz. These and even more "super" elements are all part of the setting. If you want a game about everyone struggling to survive then sorry because you've just visited the wrong game. Try those near-future post zombie apocalypse NRPs which occasionally pop up. In this RP we are openly endorsed to have sci-fi elements coupled with the shizoish anarchic atmosphere of the wastelands. Whether you like it or not this is a fact.

@Willy Vereb

You're also under-estimating the logistics which would make any notions of producing the same tier of technology as would have been enjoyed pre-war impossible. It's like you didn't read. Let me refresh you:

There's a difference between knowing and having the means to make shit. When the production chain and facilities to make a Toyota are gone, then no amount of a mechanical engineering degree can save that. And when you have two (possibly three) generations living in a disconnected world reading text books and manuals on how to build a Toyota Camry they're not going to know how to deal with the Fordoyta Frankensteins that are rolling about.

Neither are they going to be able to handle everything else.

And in a world where we have nations to the size they are now it'd be appropriate to admit that not everyone went into a shelter. So there's a super-minority of academic individuals in a world that rebuilt itself to survival after the modern nation-state. And in a world where all nations disappeared as they did then the amount of nuclear war had to be beyond absolute. Life can survive that: but political institutions as we know them and everything else would not. They'd be a concept on paper but there'd be no way for any of that to actually be put to work beyond a constant recycling or pre-existing parts until they themselves died.

The main issue isn't know-how, it's the supply chain. And without the logistics network behind the know-how all that knowledge is useless. Generations after stepping out of the vault many might decide to forget their previous knowledge in favor of the more directly relevant skills on how to swap out a AK-74's firing mechanism onto the stock of a FAMAS. Or how to grow food again.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

@Dinh AaronMk At the end of the day, it's a question of why are people here?

Is it for the story?

Or are they trying to win something?

Personally, I'm here for the story, and when everything is about the story, benign details matter less and less. If someone wants a legion of Brotherhood clones, armed to the teeth with railguns and an accompaniment of Metal Gear Solids, then let them. If the GM has allowed for such a thing to happen in the scope and lore of his RP, then s'all good.

For me, that doesn't change the soul of the story. The world ended, people hid in bunkers, emerged 200 years later to try and rebuild. This is their tale, not a timeline of their ascent to becoming overlords of the universe. If some horde of impossibly advanced warriors comes pouring across Normandy, then I'd look forward to the nitty gritty posts of a futile defense, and the more clinical posts of an armed resistance to an occupying force.

That's my two pennies on everything. EVER. Like literally, I think I just wrote my thesis on the Theory of Living.

But enough of that, Normandy needs to crack on with the Spartain II program. 'scuse me :)

@Frengo

Actually if people are freely marching out in the shadow of the Metal Gear Ray then it ruins the Apocalypse vibe and becomes a whole new genre of fiction.

The RP is branded as a Fallout-Like RP so I come here to expect a story involving societies nestling the brink of survival or restoration under the shadows of the ruins of the old world, where what the world was before is a phantom or a legend where the reality of the world is a much tougher, grittier thing than it was before. If people can build Metal Gears then the illusion of man's capacity being maimed is removed in favor of it being a Mech-based RP. And there is a genre for that: it's the typical Sci-Fi world where man and aliens have taken to the stars and have the capacity to construct mechs and dazzling super-structures and projects beyond the current scope of reality.

Apocalyptic fiction, in the same vein as Fallout and Mad Max represents a model of story where man is feeding off the corpse of the world before it, and the world before it hardly works as it intended. No one has the capacity for modern genetic modification and the facilities to perform the exact science of identifying and changing genomes. What this reality and story is - and should be as to be accurate to the branding - is one where people don't have this sort of ability. And with the branding of this RP doing such would be a breach of immersion.

If you want mechs on a desolate planet, I'm sure any one of the dozen of current sci-fi RPs can facilitate that. Trying to claim something like that is something that reads off as someone playing-to-win since they want the glitziest of the thing. Even inquiring arises my own suspicions.