Dinh AaronMk

Oi, politidorks, hit me up with some nuanced articles you've been reading lately.

Portland Anarchists fight the Deep State and potholes.

you wake up. it is the medieval ages again. what do you do?

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
A lot can change in a few decades. 35 years of 2% annual growth doubles your population. Other groups may join yours, or mimic your ideas, too. Also, every immigrant and citizen raised by ignorant parents can be a vector for syphilis and tuberculosis.

@catchamber

This implies neighboring tribes outside the ethnic group would be responsive. While the aforementioned Mississippi Culture had developed sedentary agriculture it was only after thousands of years of slow march and adaptation of technology otherwise developed by the Aztecs to make the march northwards.

Guns, Germs, and Steel goes into a great level of detail on this and even goes into the numbers for the progress of things such as corn, beans, and beats to progress northward from central Mexico. It took more than a few thousand years to do so, and Jared Diamond's calculations per the spread of technology on a north-south axis is some three times longer.

That put down, this assumes automatically that the moment the Cherokee pick up on and utilize KGP's technological gifts that Creek, Chickasaw, and Pawnee would quickly follow suit. Just because your neighbors have superior technology doesn't make those individuals with lesser technology follow suit quickly. This isn't including the fantastic level of socio-economic changes that the Cherokee would undergo or if the tribe he sets up with would be able to impress upon it on their neighbors; if anything they might only begin to adapt over a generation or more of trading and by the time the full fruits of his efforts come about he would have passed away irregardless of dick-rot.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
You were? Vilageidiotx's first post is blank, and I explicitly said "I'd love to see you explain how to produce all of that in a language you don't know, and get it running within your now shortened lifespan, all without googling anything." If we're prepared, we're basically aware of all recorded facts about the era, minus butterfly effects caused by our arrival. That seems cheap.

Yeah, religious conflicts are always a bummer. On the bright side, you can keep your head down and take advantage of the cushy positions clergy generally get, such as isolation from infected populations, and access to historical records. If push comes to shove, just contact local royalty, and explain how you can ensure they and their people remain competitive and prosperous with technology.

Remember: we're talking about KGP's proposal here ultimately and not the lack of proposal in the OP. By his accounts he is preparing to go back in time and willing to ignore butterfly effect and all associations. By him, he's preparing and getting educated. He's actually probably going to read a book if he's going to walk down the street to his nearby Cherokee community to being learning the language and life ways of the tribe before he heads back in time.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
If we define the Medieval Ages as 500 to 1500 AD, and Columbus reached the Americas in late 1492, you have a >0% chance of ending up in a year where there are colonists or explorers. Even if you don't, and we assume the butterfly effect doesn't alter European history, you just need to be a few decades away from 1500 to encounter Europeans.

To argue technicalities the middle ages are generally accepted at having been the fall of Constantinople in 1453 or the end of the Hundred Years War in 1453 at which time modern nationalism in Western Europe develops and we see the steady decline of the feudal order. If Columbus still leaves in 1492 this provides a certain period in which he will never arrive and packs a minimum of two generations between our arrival and his arrival. This scenario admittedly doesn't leave us much time to do anything per my first response, but it would be enough to do something minimal in the hopes of preparing, like introducing the Cherokee Alphabet centuries before the Cherokee Alphabet was actually introduced so the tribe can pass around ideas and integrate things into the long-term memory.

Prior to that we'd have time, but even assuming Columbus it's not like his landfall in the Caribbean spells doom for anything north of the Gulf, since it's not for another twenty-thirty years the Spaniards conquer the Aztecs and begin the great fucking up of shit. Even coming in on the beginning of European presence means the best thing you could do is prepare and inoculate the tribe against the dangers posed by European-borne diseases which would vastly empower the tribes; regular European realpolitik will do the rest.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
Without using a search engine, can you list 10 sources of dietary iron that are native to the New World? While that seems excessive, let's keep in mind that mismanagement and pathogens can destroy food sources.

Beans, deer, pheasant, turkey, shell fish, insects, possum, turtle, bison, wild rice.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
I get that it talks about New World organisms. But, if we're being super serious about waking up in Medieval America, one would likely want to know what is and isn't native to the region.

The only thing we mostly changed before the 20th century is killing a lot of shit.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

That's why you picked an African nation. For dem positive stereotypes.

@Pepperm1nts

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

you wake up. it is the medieval ages again. what do you do?

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
You're forgetting the part about venereal and non-venereal syphilis. If population density grows, due to urbanization, you're going to get plagues. Domesticating animals will only add to this, because people tend to live near the people that live near their animals.

@catchamber

Thing is: population growth is slow enough and the transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to full village economy and on into urban economy would be so slow you would be dead anyways. Even introducing such reforms as these means that by the time the fruits are being reaped and infectious disease can take hold in any community you yourself would most likely have passed away.

If you're in Europe, good luck knowing how to talk to people without sounding like some weird fuck. While the video only focuses on English, it isn't hard to imagine other languages being similarly changed. If you're near Christians, become a priest, and say God told you about these things. If you're near Muslims, become an imam, and say Allah told you about these things.

You realize we're discussing this on the assumption we would go in prepared, right? It's simply a matter of learning the language before diving in.

And per the priest and imam bit: heresies exist for the later and depending on when you show up the Mu'tazilites may have been so ostracized you'd be out of luck.

Good luck convincing them to follow your advice, if you look like the disease carrying colonists.

I don't think you're on the same wave-length as KGP and I where we'd be showing up before the colonists. They wouldn't quiet know what we are and the bias against the white wouldn't have set in. The hardest part would be undergoing their hazing rituals to enter the tribe when and if they realize you speak their lingo or close enough at least.

If they don't appear at a moment when they're at war with someone and the sachems are thus in control; you won't be gutted and tied to a tree with your own intestines. Then it's a matter of garnering social favor by providing for people and sprinkling in your strange wisdom to build up to the big stuff.

Maize? Yum yum, I love me some iron deficiency.

>Implying only subject in their diet

And since I doubt any of us are immune to smallpox, anyone that goes back to the Medieval Ages is basically fucked.

I'm not going to deny this.

Given that was published in 1972, you sure that book doesn't rely on organisms foreign to the Americas? It's not that big a deal, but it'd suck to get your New and Old World creatures mixed up.

This is a discredit to Appalachian culture. While there are elements that utilize European introduced things there are still natural subjects unintroduced by Europeans the books look over. Appalachian culture is after all an amalgam of Scottish, German, and Cherokee folkways fitted to suit mountain living. The books discuss everything from how to prepare food to hunting to foraging to even constructing permanent housing and crafting your own furniture.

you wake up. it is the medieval ages again. what do you do?

And since KGP is talking about the sweet sweet Cherokee than the Foxfire books would probably be his best source of information for how to survive in Cherokee Apalachia and to identify some materials that would help him. These were after-all compiled from interviews with the people who lived self-sustained lives in the region for generations, had grown to have a relationship with the land, and the books are lauded by hard-core survivalists and self-reliance junkies the 49-over.

you wake up. it is the medieval ages again. what do you do?

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
Sure, there are also penicillium strains native to the Americas, but can you identify and refine them without using the internet? It's one thing to say it's possible, but it's another to actually know how to do these things.

As for disease: I sure hope you're immune to staphylococcus, streptococcus, syphilis, and tuberculosis, especially strains from 500 to 1500 years ago. I also hope the locals are immune to all the bacteria inside of you. The pathogenic sword cuts both ways.

Also, as population density increases from urbanization, you'll have to deal with those pesky plagues. Good luck bootstrapping technology while everyone is dropping like flies.

@catchamber

The thing is with the Americas: there wasn't really anything that effected European colonists coming into the country on such a scale you would be necessarily affected. It's not like you're going to wake up one day with either of those like you might Small Pox or Bubonic Plague in Medieval Europe. TB might be a different matter, but on the whole native populations don't generally gather consistently in large populations for any period of time required to pass along some sort of contagion between people at a risky and lethal rate.

You would have a much poorer time in Medieval Europe, north Africa, the middle east, Asia, or India at this time for the general reason there are cities people move to and live in and where you might be otherwise drawn to kick off your prospective career as a totally not satanic wizard who brings strange and unknown knowledge with him, because no one knows about the internet nor are they aware of it or any other mediums by which you would have learned to become technically proficient at anything.

That said, like all the westerners that went off to join the natives through North America's history up until the subjugation of the Apache's in the early 1900's you would most likely have a fairly safe life on the basis that these diseases didn't murder the colonists the moment they stepped off their ships in the 16th century, and that rates of transmission are all together pretty low. Presumably having studied up on medical science to cure the natives of their diseases and then protect them from Western disease, and to ingrain these seemingly irrelevant practices into their cultural mind-set to establish it as a norm; you would have read up on a thing or two on identifying and avoiding having your dick rot off at least.

That said the best bet KGP might have north of the Rio Grande in influencing a native culture easily would be with the Mississippian culture which prior to the arrival of Cortez and the subsequent conquest of the Aztecs was one of the most prominent indigenous civilizations in the Americas, who were known to have made the transition into farming society from a hunting one using Maize which had managed to make its way slowly into the north and were getting around to long-term housing and large villages comparable to cities, and their own ceramic works.

The thing is though: apart from this KGP is going in blind since by the time Conquistador's made their way north these communities had been abandoned or whipped out at the head of their advance or decimated by Small Pox which had been carried north by refugees from Mexico and laid waste to the people of the Mississippi and killed them all before the Spaniards could even sick their giant fucking mastiffs on them.

you wake up. it is the medieval ages again. what do you do?

<Snipped quote by Keyguyperson>

I'd love to see you explain how to produce all of that in a language you don't know, and get it running within your now shortened lifespan, all without googling anything.

@catchamber

Given that research into neanderthal dental records reveal they ate compounds that contain Penicillium chrysogenum it wouldn't be entirely difficult to demonstrate how to further refine a product they were probably consuming anyways. And if this were a preped situation then on your end it wouldn't be much work to identify the natural sources and then go on ahead after learning Cherokee, Cree, Iroquois, or any of the Anishinaabe languages (most were regionally mutually intelligible so it wouldn't be totally alienating if you were ready to appear in Illinois but ended up in pre-Colombian Canada.

But on disease: that wouldn't be an issue. As a product of generations of local evolution and of evolution from European stock we'd have a pretty strong natural resistance to any disease from the time. We'd be most at threat of cholera or the typical urban-center diseases that flared up on a regular basis in Europe at the time. But proposing we're going to 15th century America and not Europe: the Americas would be devoid of any significant infectious diseases, unlike Europe. Key may be riskier to the natives than they are to him if he's carrying any non-symptomatic disease, or takes a horse.

Those diseases that would be most at risk to him then would be those he'd be at risk now if he were to take a walk in the woods. Even then he'd be in the clear if he wore long socks and covered himself in mud.

you wake up. it is the medieval ages again. what do you do?

Inform the peasants they do not need the shackles of their lords and plot a peasant revolt against the feudal aristocracy.

And then in doing so probably wake up the progressive peasants who'll just say, "wait for the king's son, I hear he's got some good ideas".

After The End, A Tale of Rebirth (Remake)

Chihuahua State

Ciudad Juarez

At the edge of a ruinous landscape where the El Grande begins to draw its early mark across the dry rocky landscape of the high desert. Where the wind had not blown in great clouds of dust from the north, across the great prairie lands in the far north and into Texas and Mexico, the cracked and barely readable scars of roads cut the landscape in regular plots where the ruins of adobe homes and buildings lay as mere shells of themselves, simple four walls around a floor of dust and desert sage brush with pale silver leaves. But while the landscape looked dead, closer towards the center of the city where the Rio Grande rolled wide and shallow there was life. When the wind gusts south into the barren inhospitable dry deserts it often carried with it the cackle of chickens, of old madres, and all the rattle of city and town life.

Across the Rio, where six-hundred years ago would have been El Paso Texas was yet another extension for what would be the domain of Juarez as a city. From atop its tallest still-standing towers at the city heart fluttered twin pairs of flags, the long white banner with red-stripe at its bottom, emblazoned with a black desert eagle flying over a black trumpet of the great Tabernacle State, and below in a smaller standard the coiled rattlesnake about the meat of a flowering cactus flush with fruit on a yellow field.

Here was the kingdom of Chihuahua, of a people hard and unbending to the rocks who since before their founding been tested by war and trials. It was a history of strife that spanned beyond generational count and the sun-baked concrete of a tall broken wall that once defined a border not far outside of the city stood as a dark monument that defined the suspicions that rose to there having been fighting and battles when the old world ended, and which had emboldened many people.

And this was the place where, when the men of Deseret came to liberate gave them still more power, and to not turn itself on its own had marched westward to the terrible Bay of Cortes with its sea monsters and dark water. It was said among them that they would have desired to conquer the sea, but Baja across the way had already done so and thus became their jealousy, but not their enemy.

While the march was slow and consolidating it did not take the better part of six-hundred years, not even a hundred. Within a generation they had pierced the desert and slashed to the far waters with the roar of shot and cannon. And when it was done there was such fear in the dons and príncipes that claimed in part Greater Mexico that they had sought to restrain the Chihuahuans. They were wars against the Tabernacle state, and the Chihuahuans came to carry the war themselves on their shoulders and backs. To the north, they were the iron shield against the south.

And so was the kingdom that Josiah Brown inherited, commanded. But more importantly to him: lead.
______________

A remarkable sound split the early morning air, as if called from the very frozen dew that covered every rock and stone in a diamond sheen that shone purple and black in the early morning sunlight. The sun itself had not yet risen and its light was barely an orange smudge over the horizon. The sky was still black and inky.

In the collection of Adobe barracks at the foot of the rocky hill men bound to their feet, and hurriedly donned uniforms. From atop the hill at his nest the trumpeter continued to blaze out his tune over his trumpet heralding the men from their slumber and to their ranks. And so they did, soldiering without distraction to don trousers, don shirts, and don boots. To don their blazers and throw on their hats. To clasp their armor to their chests as they went out the door. Speak and pike in their hand, or musket at their side. Hussling them on more were the drill sergeants who seemed to no less awake than they were when they had retired to their beds five-hours previous. They stood atop boxes, rode atop horses whipping the shoulders and backs of the slow with the broadsides of their swords and sneering in loud voices goaded them on and threatening them with worse than whips at their back if they did not get to formation.

At the parade ground under a covered awning, an officer in fine white dress stood leaning over a table, his wide, round-rimmed hat obscuring his face as he bowed his head to a watch in the candle light. He scribbled in a ledger with a thin piece of charcoal the minutes and seconds as each rank assembled and were filled in.

When that was done, he stood back and away to the corner, keeping his eye low as a drill officer took the stage and began to make a pronouncement in a loud coyote voice. As the regular speech was done, he ordered the brigades to run, and they marched out into the desert with full gear and jogged the desert before the sun could rise. Their breaths combined leaving a foggy wake in their trail that wound and stretched on like a snake that faded away at its tail as its ethereal body melted away into the cold morning air.

By the time they returned from their run the sun had risen from the horizon and the icy diamond dew had all but evaporated from a few still shaded spots. But now they shone like flecks of gold against brown rocks and not as silver diamonds. But when the morning came into full bloom so did these gems melt away and evaporate into the dry air, and the snake that followed the marchers turned from mist to dust. And when the men returned, the officer in the white suit took the times again, looking from his watch to each passing unit taking them down by the passing numbered badges stitched to their arm sleeves or painted on their roughened matted metal breastplates.

When they returned the same sergeant returned, made another announcement and sent them to breakfast. And the white-suited man made no indication he cared, and did not lift his head up any higher than to make a peek at them. And when the men left, he remained; but a chair was brought up to him and there at his table he was served steak and eggs drenched in a blood red chili sauce, with fresh milk mixed with beer in an undecorated ceramic cup.

When the men returned, they were exercised for an hour. Some still jogged, others went about in some other aerobic excercise. The trumpet called them back to formation and they drilled for the better part of the remaining morning until afternoon. Their muskets popping in a rapid succession of volleys at the hillside, the roaring grunts of the others thrusting with spears and pikes rising in an audible beat that filled the quiet between volleys and episodes of reloading.

It was at this time a rider came on a dusty-brown steed. A long riding coat trailing up behind him as the slender built mare galloped up to the camp, slowing to a trot and then a soft canter as the man drew near. The man in the white suit still remained at the drill yard, shaded in the cover of an awning. The rider approached him.

He was a small man, not much more than an inch over five foot with a small jockey's build. His face was narrow, almost grimmacing at each step. And like the man in white he wore a round, wide-brimmed hat shading his face and neck from the punishing sun.

“Josiah Brown, I deliver a message.” he declared in a dusty voice.

The man in white did not answer, and continued his work taking the time.

“Josiah, Brown.” the rider repeated, with a little more force.

“I am not Don Brown.” the man in white said in a low voice, turning to him only briefly as he recorded a time. He had a marbled face, cut with dust rock, and war. Soft green eyes looked up at the intruder, and then left him. His complexion was soft and caramelized.

“I am sorry.” the messenger said, bowing his head, “But I am looking for Josiah Brown.”

“The Don is here.” said the officer in white.

“Then where is he, here?” the rider asked, “I have a message to deliver for him.”

“He is here but not here to be disturbed. You will need to wait until rest.”

“Is this necessary?”

“For him: yes.” the officer in white said, recording some times as a set of volleys finished from the drill yard. In doing so, he displayed a sharp ability of observation and memory. Making sharp glances at his watch and recording numbers and sources even as the successive firing ended long before he finished taking notes.

“I was sent here on a dispatch of emergency from Don Mark of Hermasillo. The situation he says is grave!”

“All situations are grave to master Mark.” the officer in the white suit said, “But it does not change the situation. I can not summon master Josiah at this time. Your waiting will persist.”

The messenger groaned displeased. And threw up his hands in defeat. “Fine then.” he huffed, lowering to sit on his haunches as he watched the drilling continue.

For the next hour he waited as the men rotated and continued. Then a long note was bellowed from the trumpets and everything stopped. The man in the suit put down his charcoal pencil and his watch and folded his arms as the men, now relieved or morning duties began to break formation and scatter, most in the direction of the main camp to the mess hall for lunch.

From the group though came a man walking in the opposite direction, a drill master at his side as they split from the rabble and approached the drill yard's wooden stage. The two stepped up.

The one, who looked to be dressed as a newly initiated junior officer stood tall with broad shoulders who towered over his companion, a small aging man who had lost an eye. With a trimmed beard, the taller and younger man held a neater appearance than the disheveled and scarred older man at his side. “Alright, I am curious. What do the numbers say about today's performance.” the older gentleman said in a gruff voice as he went immediately to the officer in white and scanned the ledger.

“Section 2 has improved from yesterday.” he said in a low voice.

“A marked shot more in five minutes of firing.” the seated man acknowledged.

“I guess that will be fine. I'll need to go over this when Josiah's done with them.”

He stepped from the table as the junior officer moved in. Standing up, the officer in white left him the chair and the junior sat down. The messenger rose.

“Josiah Brown?” he asked, looking between the two new comers.

The man seated turned to him and looked up at the messenger. “And who would you be?” he asked in a wispy, breathless voice.

“Thomas Akron, I have word from Mark Hampton.” he said, stepping forward. Josiah Brown nodded his head.

He was a clean man, even despite the dust and sweat that caked his face. A full beard and mustache was well trimmed, and his eyes were a pure blue under fat-slickened eyebrows. At some point in the day he had coated his cheeks in charcoal dust to cut the glare of the sun, and that was even despite the visor of his cap. A heavy hooked nose dominated his face, and all together he looked at the messenger bitterly as he stepped around the table.

“Well?” Josiah insisted.

“Don Mark wishes to report that several weeks ago, men from Sinoaloa hit as far north as Obregon, and that in this episode of looting close to a quarter of the countryside south of that city was burned. He sent a party of men to pursue them, and last he heard they had entered Sinoaloa state in an effort to recover a herd of cattle these men had confiscated. No word has returned from them since, and to make matters work another party struck north just last week, seemingly in defiance. His authority and means to raise an army to properly retaliate is weak at best, and calls upon you; his governor to do something about it.”

“This is what you get for toying with Papist heathens.” the man in the white suit said, now standing with his arms crossed behind his master.

“Has he at least committed to trying to fortify the region as per my orders?” Josiah Brown said, “It is why I sent him there, to make sure the line between us and them is well defined and to not waste efforts trying to push them away. I didn't ask for a wall, for God's sakes.”

“I don't know.” the messenger said, “I only deliver what word he gives to me.”

Josiah nodded, “I will not go.” he said.

“Let him stew then.” the man-in-white said with a contemptuous snort.

“Not, to not do that, Jesus.” Josiah remarked, “I want word from a man that he at least went about to do what I requested. If he did, then I will not answer. But if he did not, I will have to fire him and deal with the matter myself. This fact is clear to me. You can go and send him that word now, I will deal with the rest on my end here and in my own time. Good bye.”

But Spam...

@canaryrose

I dunno it's been a while since I had to drive by it. I used to pass it on my way to classes when I could take them at the college campus not ten minutes from my house. But now I have to leave the county to take classes so now I never drive by that farm.