Raineh Daze

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Well in that case the increased physical endurance is a side effect of the magic. Since the Dragonslayer cuts through magical stuff, the item would be relying solely on its own physical durability, and if that weapon is a common weapon made of common materials, it wouldn't hold out for more than one hit.

@IncredibleBee

But whilst it can simultaneously cut two separate things, the different parts would be supporting one another--you can't cut the magic unless you can cut the physical, and you can't cut the physical unless you can cut the magic. If the magic simply amplifies the physical effects, you can't cut either, and you'd get a stalemate.

<Snipped quote by Flamelord>

Technically still 20001 because of the fact that all the minds are linked in the first place. Just sayin'.

>changing topics let's do this

@PKMNB0Y

I believe you've got 10031 too many minds there.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

Strangest question is why they'd need the gun to correct for them by experiment 10032.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

It's actually rather simple inference. Ganishka's projection during the dock fight right before the boat was made of magic. Guts hurt that by stabbing it with the Dragonslayer. Now, spells and enchantments are also made of magic. Therefore, cutting it with the Dragonslayer will produce the same effect.

@IncredibleBee

There's actually one thing that's the problem, though, from the example I've been thinking about: what if something IS magical, but the magical effect is simply making it physically more durable? I've not been proposing that magic makes something inherently undamageable. More a 'is it ignoring the magic'.

I think we've been arguing over two separate points.

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

Or a strong melee fighter capable of getting on common ground with Guts. Guts will probably come around if the person talking to him can evoke fond memories. Like someone based off his comrade Griffith, for example.

@Earnest Evans

Someone like Griffith is the opposite of what we need.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

This is semantics. According to @IncredibleBee's interpretation of Guts, the Dragonslayer harms magical things. Interpreting that quote as "Dragonslayer can harm magical things only if they can't be hit by mundane weapons" and, beyond that, something like the Dragonslayer would sunder a pickaxe like the one this nameless character has, regardless of whether it's got an enchantment or not.

If it's enchanted to be unbreakable by mundane weapons, then logically the "anti-anti-mundane" effect should take effect.

@Earnest Evans

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

That was clearly a fancy way of saying "The sword can hurt magic stuff now." Mundane, nonmagical weapons can't typically hurt ethereal spirits or cut through mana; the Dragonslayer can do and has done both.

@IncredibleBee

That's not clear at all. It goes beyond the realm of "Well, this can hurt things that would be immune to a plain steel sword" to a conclusion that only makes sense with an unstated assumption of Berserk cosmology, how magic functions interacting with said cosmology, and further implications when tossing random magical effects at people.

It's a bit of a jump from being able to cut through something that would ignore a mundane weapon to being able to negate magic spells and cut through enchantments. Most cases, the enchantment's an intrinsic part of the item; if you can't cut the item anyway (because it's supposed to be too tough for that), the enchantment making it tough isn't going to go.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

In the face of powers like these, I feel like an antimagic melee weapon isn't a ridiculous concept.

@IncredibleBee

And it didn't seem antimagic at all until it became relevant, which is more problematic than knowing what people can do beforehand. That the mechanism exploits something that only applies in Berserk and would allow it to destroy things that can't be destroyed is an issue. (Excalibur comes to mind as a specific example)

I think what we're missing is how @IncredibleBee had "The Dragonslayer destroys magic" listed on his character sheet all this time, and he's not even the only character with a weapon that ignores defenses, either. If we had any issues with this, it would have been best to call them out beforehand

@Earnest Evans

Exact quote: "By slaying countless monsters, the sword has taken on magical properties, and can now harm magical beings that can't be hurt by mundane weapons". It isn't explicitly negating any magical anything.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Superman is listed in his Character sheet as being so physically strong he's "able to destroy small planets". You're telling me that's allowed, but an antimagic weapon isn't?

@IncredibleBee

I have no input on character acceptance, or any idea when he was accepted.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

I thought it was obvious that you'd need to be choosy when sending someone to greet Guts more than basically anyone else, more so when he pulled out the death threats. At the very least, I'd thought you'd read up. I don't recall you asking if it was a good idea to send a specific type of character, either.

@IncredibleBee

Er... Berserk's a bit long to read up just to try and work out what won't set Guts off. Not to mention not everyone's cup of tea. XD

Also, I instagibbed her like a faceless mook NPC because she kind of is one. No character sheet, and no real details. She doesn't even have a name.

@IncredibleBee

That's because there was no chance for them to give a name. If they're on their own, not attacking you, and trying to talk, you're above 'faceless mook'--or if they bring along mooks of their own. When one post is specifically 'no, they're not dead', it's pretty clear from context they're not a mook.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Lost Cause>

If it didn't, wouldn't literally every magical character be useless outside their home dimension?

@IncredibleBee

It's the other way around: it stops effects that exploit specific weaknesses in a setting from applying universally, without unduly affecting the people using the magic. Being able to cut through anything and everything remotely magical because of a quirk in the definition of an enchanted item in Berserk is horrendously powerful--especially when it comes to destroying items that are literally irreplaceable.

Plus we still have no idea what the deal with the hammer actually is, other than 'is hammer, magic is involved'.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Actually it does matter because the Dragonslayer cuts physical and magical materials simultaneously, by virtue of being a physical weapon imbued with astral properties.

@IncredibleBee

I don't follow the logic. Where did I say, anywhere, about magical materials? If we take a hunk of iron, and do magic to make the iron impervious to damage, cutting on a different plane of existence won't help.

Massive Multiversal Crossover

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

So what you're saying is I have to cut through magic by cutting it? Which is what I was doing anyways.

@IncredibleBee

What I'm saying is that you're not going to automatically succeed at cutting through a magical item. If the 'magical' part is something like 'nigh invincible', then it doesn't matter if you can cut something that isn't even physical.