SleepingSilence

What Are You Listening To?

Ghost in the Shell was a good movie.

@BrobyDDark TLDR. :P <-That emoticon means playful sarcasm.

You said pretty much everyone, but it wasn't nearly anyone at first. So...all of that rage comes from nothing. Almost everyone isn't 2/8 people...I didn't say you said everyone. I just said it seems, and I also mentioned how it was late. So okay, I didn't remember the CAPS words beforehand.

Calling me stupid, or at least telling me, please explain why the critics and users are wrong is somehow an extremely outlandish thing for a hesitant person to ask. Okee.

You don't want to assume, but tell me to go fuck myself. XD Just to clarify I'm not upset, and I really, really don't understand how you could be upset...didn't do anything to you...

Like what do you think the :3 emotion is? It's just a silly face. Isn't always imply straight sarcasm like the :P would...but ignoring an discussion about emoji's. Is it really sensible in the slightest to tell me to fuck myself over an emoji? Like not to continue my point but uh...the whole "anti-social" thing...and you just saying people might be defensive. I think you literally just crossed the line into exactly what I was talking about. (if the whole calling me stupid didn't do that before.)

Defensive, doesn't mean attacking...Saying go fuck yourself after someone makes a point is a literal political meme...if only we we're discussing something remotely important... >.>

I think your making this a lot more important and angry than it needs to be...in a discussion you try to match others intensity...have I been particularly intense? Pretty sure the answer is no.

I used emotes a lot, doesn't make me secretly evil...I just do it as a tick. For the whole putting words in peoples mouths thing, I have a slight feeling your doing the same, except your example was me generalizing and not calling out anyone in particular. The "You make it sound like I care" was after I was attacked. And it's pretty much the ONLY passive aggresive thing I can give you. But it was just me being playfully sarcastic...which is usually what that emoticon means...

I guess I won't assume otherwise? (the Awson often talked to people critiquing the movie) but how can you really know that either?

Oh my god, is it bad I kind of find this kinda funny the more I read? Now you're calling me a cunt...I...I feel you may need to chill just a wee bit.

And why couldn't he have done the same for me? Is false any kinder, more sophisticated and new? I feel like that doesn't go in his favor, when my point was, why couldn't he just socialize with me, instead of shutting me out?

And no, If I started calling people stupid cunts who should go fuck themselves. That would probably more likely lead to arguments...

You say Awson want to hear opinions about "who's opinions he respects, or at least wants to hear." Isn't that ALSO putting words in someone's mouth...you kind of paint a bad picture of him, while trying to imply I'm not respected or not deserving to be heard...I don't think I've ever said something so nasty to anyone on this forum...especially ones I haven't conversed with before.

And yep, you proved to me that spam is actually pretty friendly overall...did you happen to re-read what you typed before you posted it?
<.<

So yeah that was a rage infilled clusterfuck. I'm going to apologize to you, for apparently just being 'the last straw' in whatever very bad day you had. And I'm going to assume you don't act this way to everyone who has minor, albeit unimportant grips. And I'm going to call it even...Seriously though, not mad, never called anyone anything, I'm not worth the very clear amount of vitriol you used to post this.

Because really isn't worth spiking your blood pressure over me having a slightest feeling that people online don't have filters before they speak, which leads to people getting called cunts and assholes without much provocation. Which if happened in real life, the average person would probably consider them anti-social. >.>

Ghost in the Shell was a good movie.

I'm glad you guys liked the movie.

I was afraid that fans of the original would give it a far below average rating rather than the about average rating it deserves. Some are doing that.

@SleepingSilence

You seem to be completely missing some things.

Why post this thread if I didn't want to hear what you had to say? Because I posting this thread with specific instructions that I only wanted to hear viewpoints from people who have actually seen the movie. That's why you got an immediate dismissal. That SHOULD be enough for you to understand this situation.

Having a discussion with someone about something complex, when they've only heard someone else's views on it, is usually quite hollow and pointless.

@Awson

I'm missing nothing, I wasn't the only one to post something without knowledge. I'm the only one you talked back to in such a way.

I didn't know about the movie, and gave another similar topic we could of discussed it would of been instantly preferable to talk about that with you. Or you could always of told me why you liked the movie and convince me to watch instead of telling me my opinions weren't welcome because of how hollow they were.

I suppose it's not particularly important, so I'll drop it. I'll come back when I see the movie, if I do and this post doesn't vanish.

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

First of all, I gotta say that you are waaaayyy too hung up on this everyone had racist impulses thing. I'm not insulting you personally.

@Vilageidiotx

Okay, I suppose I can't really start without pointing out again. How much I appreciate how respectful you've been and how open you are about your opinions and ideals, and I know you aren't attempting to attack me on any personal level.

But I feel like I must stress, if you claim “everyone is racist” is something that you believe. Unfortunately, that generalized statement, does in fact include me. (me being someone.) So in a way you are saying you, me and everyone has some kind of “racial superiority complexes.” You're argument does blame everyone. (it isn't personal per say.) But it makes no one able to defend from such a statement or make them innocent of a pretty bad thing.

But! That was not my main point, nothing that I said was meant to be a defense for specifically me explaining why I'm not. But my opinion that racism isn't in our DNA but it's learned. Maybe at very young ages. But I believe it CAN be learned to not be racist. (in any way. Big or small.) From learning about cultures and their differences. I don't see it as something that's impossible, to learn from our (or more likely other peoples) past mistakes.

That is a basic overview of what calculus is, but that definition doesn't get into the depth of what calculus is. What I'm saying is that is that the dictionary doesn't go into enough detail to be used as a be all end all for all discussions.

@Vilageidiotx

I guess to dive deeper into an analogy...though I'm basically repeating myself. Ignoring the dictionary. If you ask different math experts to teach you the in and outs of Calculus. You will get the same/similar explanations that lead to the same basic idea. Racism, seems to be a word that no one can properly define and different people will share completely varied views on what exactly “racism” is. And that's because it's not the same.

I'm saying communities are more complicated than you are making them out to be. Because...
A: That some communities are multiracial doesn't mean all communities are. What is normal for one part of the country isn't neccessarily normal in every part. Where I live now, multi-racial relationships are very common. When I lived in Idaho though, black people in general were very rare.
B: Not everyone adapts to the community around them. "Cuck" entered the current political lexicon with Stormfront types insulting white men who don't mind multi-racial relationships, as in "White men are being cuckolded by black men."

@Vilageidiotx

I think I'm saying most interaction and actions that people exchange in are more complicated than “everyone is this” Communities and people are complicated, which make most generalizations incorrect statements...

But what your describing and what you said previously, is basically my entire point. “People in Idaho for instance, don't have very many black people in their culture. So instead of talking to them and learning about their culture...They listen to the news stories about them, the stereotypes and get misinformation and then generalize the race because of what they we're told.”

But doesn't that show you exactly what I'm talking about? Racism is learned. You can't be born believing blacks can't swim or whites can't jump...Stereotypes are learned. As I argue ALL racial biases are. If it was true that racial bias just couldn't be ignored and was just innate and not fixable. Would interracial friendships, marriages and likewise every of happened in the first place?

Not everyone adapts, but it's very very clear the majority does...because where growing as a multi-racial world, not declining...as my previous sources stated. Maybe I'd be okay with stating, that a lot more people have racist ideologies than their should be and let's say there is some kind of race problem in the United States. But it would have to take place under the assumption, not everyone is racist and something can be done about the people that are.

Cuck is a word I just can't take seriously and really I implore others to also assume it's like every other label, purely meant to silence dissenting opinions.

It's not getting bigger. It's getting smaller I think. That comes with problems too, because it means communities that were previously uni-racial are now being integrated. That being said, the current racial tension seems to have been born out the controversy surrounding the deaths of some black people and subsequent Black Lives or Blue Lives matter.

That being said, I am pretty well convinced racism is less of an issue than it used to be. Because, even though I'm afraid the push back is going to be successful and we will start to go backwards, I don't think that has happened yet.

I don't believe in paradise. So yeh, we will have something like that in the future. I don't know that race will be it, but there are other things for people to be tribalistic about.

@Vilageidiotx

I...don't know what that's trying to say...what is the problem there? That more places are becoming multiracial/cultural? I assume that's not what your saying, because it would concern me otherwise. I didn't want to touch Black Lives Matter with a 39 and half foot pole...but since you brought them up. I can tell you they have a different idea of racism then you do. And also they're another reason why the division is taking place. But let's just say, violent acts on any side is wrong and leave it at that.

dailywire.com/news/7347/7-statistics-s..

But I will argue, if you believe everyone is racist and racism will always be a problem...can discussion or anything really help or matter in something that can't be solved. Excuse my own crappy analogy, but it would be like debating the possibility of immortality. Why bother if death (racism) is inevitable? How can it get better or worse when the problem is birth and people being alive itself? As silly as that sounds, I do think it's a valid question. Because another thing about the future is that some speculate that white people will eventually become a minority. Which makes current BLM (and other political) opinions that state "you can't be racist, unless your white." and it makes those statements seem even more meaningless.

Are you talking about the AvenueQ video? I do think that. Albeit I think in many people it is unconscious, I think my examples have been largely unconscious attitudes. What I'm saying is that JonTron specifically jumped the line from the everyday sort of racism that healthy people try to control and embraced thought thoughts.

@Vilageidiotx

Okay, I thought so. Which is why I am going so strongly against that sentiment. I disagree that any racism is normal or that unconscious racist behavior exists, especially in people with family, friends and marriages with different races. I believe JonTron made mistakes too, but it wasn't because of his inherit racist beliefs. But because he isn't articulate and used to discussing politics. Which can and often does lead to people using attack methods, like Destiny who was baiting him.

Tribal as in innately prefer the group we were raised in. I don't think the specifics are DNA so much as the general tendencies. Or else, I think we are genetically predisposed to understand an "Us" and a "Them", and whether or not race fills that roll is decided by our culture.

I'll create a scenario to explain. Imagine you have some kid growing up in a multi-racial black and white community. They don't have racist tendencies toward those races because they group up with them. But a Muslim moves nextdoor. Now, I'm not saying the kid is going to go all JonTron and start yelling at the Muslim neighbor to go back to their country, because lets say this kid is consciously fine with Muslims. But unconsciously, they might have thoughts. Maybe it is vague discomfort talking to a woman in a headscarf, or the occasional "I hope that isn't a bomb" thought when they see the guy getting into his car with a briefcase. I don't think those things would be abnormal, and they wouldn't be evil, but they would be racist (or religiousist or whatever). These could be passing thoughts, something internally laughed off. But they are still racism in its seedling form. It is that kid's duty as a well rounded human being to not let those feelings fester and become active racism.

@Vilageidiotx

(Can I just point out I love how god damn unapologetically bias Google is?) But may I point out, Muslim is not a race. It is an ideology. No matter what every stupid front page of google has to say about it. Arab would be an accurate term. And how does that kid come to thinking about bombs? Is it just out of thin air? Does his brain unconsciously come up with that specific excuse as an instinctive defense mechanism? Or is it more likely based on learned ideas from the news story talking about ISIS? (The proper label there is “Islamophobic” but really, you read the Koran and what sharia courts believe and actually current enforce and then tell me their on par with religions like Taoism. :P)

Well, somebody telling racist in-jokes to people not in on the joke are fucking up a bit, socially speaking. But that's neither here nor there.

@Vilageidiotx

But does telling a racist in-joke to friends and a stranger who isn't in on the joke, simply an idiotic or dickish thing to do? Or is that act itself, a subconsciously racist act toward that person?

This isn't true. Taboos evolve quite a bit. Used to be taboo for women to wear dresses.

@Vilageidiotx

Yeah, I'd figure you'd bring something like that up. Though originally I had put “Taboo's in general” which was inaccurate, so I corrected that and put “most” to point out their were exceptions and that is an exception. But it is one exception which doesn't take away the word “most” maybe I should add. “Modern Taboo's”

The businesses largely stay here, though they do like to send the actual work abroad to make use of shittier conditions. The world's rich use tax havens to get around these things. Oftentimes the argument I've seen about lowering the corporate tax is to make sure the rich actually pay the thing instead of storing all their shit offshore.

This is, personally speaking, a sore spot for me economically speaking, because I agree with the Thomas Piketty line of thinking that we need to drastically increase taxes on the rich if civilization is going to progress in the way we all seem to expect it to, but I also think it isn't going to happen because they are rather good at getting out of paying their way. This is one of the main issues that has sent me careening way off to the far left in recent years.

@Vilageidiotx

I think most taxes in general can kind of boil down a particular human sin, that both sides both follow. Greed. I mean the basic right side is. “I want to keep all my money that I earn.” and the left. “I want someone else to pay more of their money, not my own.” Both (are simplified generalizations) but can be argued fall under a greed mentality.

But in the end, it's clear in America (and maybe elsewhere to.) The rich DO pay more taxes then everyone else combined. Outliers that cheat on taxes, happen in the minority and aren't the only class bracket to cheat on their taxes.

youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ A video about taxing/eating the rich

youtube.com/watch?v=Xj7nRc3_EG0 A video explaining taxes/tax breaks.

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/13/h..

I'm not educated enough to really get into specifically “corporate” taxes opposed to individuals.
But I think the whole, people not paying their fair share. Kind of does get into that mindset.

Scrooge mcduck holding a hundred millions dollars so he can swim in it and uses none of it on the economy, He should be able to, if he really wants...if all of it came from him providing a service and getting a profit. When thousands of others say. “I could use that money better, gimme gimme.” I unfortunately have to side with the duck in this case. It's his money...he got it likely because those thousands of people were either employed or benefited by purchasing his products.

Syria can only produce so many refugees before there is nobody in Syria left.

Also, like I said before, we won't have the same sort of crisis for geographic reasons. Syria is very close to Europe, and therefore can be reached by traditional refugeeing means. The Atlantic ocean divides the US from the region, meaning we have completely control over who we bring over and how they are positioned. People who bring up the Syrian crisis when talking about the United States are fishing for political points.

@Vilageidiotx

Well, I'd argue maybe it's others responsibilities to make their own countries better. But if Syria vanishes and get nice and warm cozy elsewhere. Do you think the mass immigration crisis ends there? You know how many other 3rd world countries that share no modern values that would probably love getting free money and guaranteed shelter? If not Syria, another country will take it's place.

But I think we are pointing out the problem that mass immigration does to other countries period...something we are currently going through to a certain extent. We look to Europe for mistakes and failures they try. So we don't do them ourselves...

That's because that particular line of thinking is a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Immigrants work jobs, and then spend that money. Once more, capitalism functions on the assumption that workers produce more than they use, since growth would not be possible otherwise. Meaning that immigrants with jobs increase the net wealth of the society.

@Vilageidiotx

But the problem arises that people who aren't citizens here are getting jobs, and taking those that could be taken by legal immigrants and American born civilians. And clearly even if it's a majority, the ones that are just coming here for the welfare system, and ones who don't want to learn the language or the rules of American Culture. Aren't benefiting the economy at all. Since immigration is increasing in America and they all seem to be following very similar patterns, why are so many unemployed and struggling to find work? If it did have an overall benefit, chances are we'd see them. But these immigrants aren't making their own businesses, to employ others and create another small circle of income exchange, their specifically taking a certain job market that a lot of younger people want and now can't get.

zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-07/15-signs..

nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why..

numbersusa.com/content/news/december-1..

No we're not.

@Vilageidiotx

Okay that link you provided is a little frustrating...because it goes into “a study”, but doesn't provide much about the study and the link to it, goes nowhere. Basically the only thing I see it that it admits our mobility has always been increasing, just slowly. And it's not worse today than it was before. But places (the only one they name specifically.) Denmark is more mobile than the united states. Aside from my immediate skepticism, there's plenty of argument against being like Denmark, that Denmark is actually behaving like the United States and people disagreeing that, that mobility there even exists.

nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/10/20/c..

money.cnn.com/2015/10/23/news/economy/..

theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/..

Well, I suspect most of us have family on medicare or medicaid. That being said, I've only ever used unemployment myself. Though I guess since I am a government employee it could be argue that I am on the public dole.

And I agree it is abused, I just feel this is another one of those issues where the abuse is unavoidable and a product of there being no perfect system, and to tone down our current system would involve hurting innocents.

@Vilageidiotx

I disagree that it's something that measures can't be done to stop certain abuses of the system. And by toning down, I assume you mean cuts. But there is toning down that can be done and have it not effect almost everyone else. Many would seem to disagree with both of us that the welfare state is a good thing at all...

heritage.org/welfare/report/how-welfar..

inequalitiesblog.wordpress.com/2012/10.. (This is about the UK and their increasingly growing negative opinions of the welfare state.)

reason.com/reasontv/2016/03/03/the-hum..

fee.org/articles/12-reasons-to-oppose-..

spectator.org/55875_five-reasons-refor.. (This is about welfare reform)

A quick bit from that link:

3. The welfare state encourages dependence instead of lifting people out of poverty. Poverty has actually increased with federal spending on anti-poverty programs. Adjusted for inflation, we’ve spent nearly $20 trillion total on “the war on poverty.” That’s more than the combined price tag of all America’s wars. Ever. From the American Revolution through Afghanistan, we’ve spent less than $7 trillion. These days, we spend 13 times what we spent on welfare in the 1960s. Guess what? In 1966, the share of the population living below the poverty threshold was 14.7%; by 2011, that share rose to 15.0%.
This spending gives people significant incentives to stay on welfare. According to the Senate Budget Committee, if you break down welfare spending per household in poverty, recipients are making $30/hour. That’s higher than the $25/hour median income – certainly more than what I make per hour.

And I will say, a lot of the welfare/food stamp stuff I see. Like the “eat on 20 bucks a month challenge” because that's all those poor people get you scum. When from personal experience I know just how wrong that is...and most people that I know are on welfare now, make more than what they'd make in a part time job. I won't say I'm okay with axing government welfare. I am more on your side in this case. But you got to see the other side and the point that, that seems a little silly.

I'm currently going through a few articles on both sides and the discussion about that welfare making more than minimum wage jobs. And I'm finding a study on one side, that honestly seems a little too high on the numbers. And the detractors that don't actually outright give any specifics. They just tell me it's super duper complex. So I'll avoid getting much deeper into it. But from personal experiences/stories and being around the ghetto and knowing how much benefits people get...I can tell you, just leaving the welfare state be without at least having a discussion about it's effectiveness and such, is a mistake.

You're probably right, in our lifetime it is probably at its peak.

@Vilageidiotx

As I read what what I wrote below, I apologize as this may seem a bit more aggressively written, but certainly not trying to be, especially to you specifically.

So do you agree that both sides of the political spectrum are behaving worse than the previous decade? Then I think it doesn't help to deny that the movement of SJW's and people of that mindset aren't a problem. (Because they're essentially, the people who you fear that may make violence merely because of your skin color, okay. People like the BLM riots or protests asking to fry the pigs like bacon, or the several stories of people beating the shit out of trump supporters or kidnapping an autistic white kid and torturing him. I mean the other political side can be criticized to. But only one extremist side is currently in more constant stirs like this and rioting and so forth.)

Whiny crybabies wanting to secede their state. Like Texas for Obama and California for Trump and those kind of “the world is over” people existed on both sides of the political coin. But I don't remember a story about hicks going up to some ghetto person and kicking his ass going “YOU VOTED OBAMA? HUH?! KICK HIS ASS!” or white men kidnapping an autistic black teen and scalping him live online...I just don't remember any of that in the news. (ignoring all the stuff that's proven fake, like every time you hear about an odd tip message, negative or not, it's basically fake.) If you get my point.

I think the Bernie Sanders left is largely fighting for rights too. Remember that the Hippies also gave us Weather Underground and the DNC Convention riots too. These things aren't black and white.

@Vilageidiotx

Not quite sure, what that implies. But once I thought Bernie Sanders may be a sincere and nice guy. But oh boy, did he prove me quite wrong with many of his statements. Like "When you are white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor, you don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you are walking down a street or dragged out of a car,"

Like seriously, as my roommate (and my personal experiences for that matter.) would love to very much 100% disagree with that assertion. Bernie sanders can legit go fuck himself.

Ghost in the Shell was a good movie.

@mdk If this is somehow a straight forward question. Want a serious answer? (Because people are talking to me?)

If it's rhetorical, a middle school-like jab basically meaning "I have nothing clever to say, but I want you to leave."

Why are so many people seemly so antisocial on this forum? :P

@SleepingSilence

Not everyone here is anti-social. Maybe awkward and defensive, but not anti-social.

@BrobyDDark

Why are you STILL still here?

@mdk

Does anyone like not see the irony here? Certainly isn't proving me wrong...

Ghost in the Shell was a good movie.

Awson wanted to share his opinion about a movie, and asked people to share their opinion about it if they've ACTUALLY seen it, and pretty much everyone but YOU did.

@BrobyDDark

Not what I said, but fair enough.

@BrobyDDark

You did say that...it also appears edited from the last time I looked at it. (But it was late when I read it.) And not really, his first post was more about shutting people up and expressing he wanted discussion. And if the next question is "why have a discussion then?" My answer is. "Why make a bloody post then?"

Some people at least said they were going to watch it and form their own opinions on it, someone even came back to post what they thought of the movie.

@BrobyDDark

I did that too. Beforehand as well. -.-

I have loads of counter points, but I'm not going to engage someone who hasn't actually seen it.

@Awson

Explain to me, how does that help? If I thought something was bad, and wanted someone to present and argument otherwise...or hell, if I was unconvinced and neutral. Why wouldn't you just say what you enjoyed about the movie? Like you tell me, why that wasn't something he could of done.

Generally, you don't start a discussion with a question framed in a way that could be construed as snide. A normal person- or, even not a normal person- would say, even if they hadn't seen it, "What were the parts of the movie that made you enjoy it?" or something to that effect. Or single out things. "What did you think of the movie's special effects?" "What were the similarities and differences between the movie and the anime?" "How many boners did you pop while looking at Scarlett Johansson in a skintight body suit?" "What was your favorite character? What about your least favorite?" And if you really think you would have gotten yelled at for asking a question...then you clearly don't have a high-opinion of the people on this forum. Why strike up a conversation with them at all?

@Awson

I asked about his opinions on off topic discussions, had nothing to do with the movie and my hesitant feelings about it. He shit on and dismissed those too...:/ And I asked him, what counter points would you have to my statements? And he didn't address them whatsoever...

If saying I'm glad you enjoyed it, is something derogatory or mocking. Please inform me how. Just because I was mostly critical, I don't think I was particularly rude. Him on the other hand.

I was answering this before reading everything, because I almost knew this would be brought up.

Why strike up a conversation with them at all?

@BrobyDDark

"why have a discussion then?" My answer is. "Why make a bloody post then?"

@SleepingSilence

Maybe if someone says, "Don't speak negatively about this movie evers!"

I can ask them about a different movie in a similar vein, and have that person go.

"I have an opinion on that, so allow me to share it with you, or I have no opinion on that unfortunately. But have you seen that movie? You should lemme tell you my thoughts about it."

Because that's what a social person would do. ^-^ Make a discussion even if it's not a direct subject to their particular topic. NOT get on a pedestal and be a high and mighty and call their opinions too low to discuss with.

I was being social, (granted not perfect, but when your rejected so bluntly at a start without a good reason. It happens.) I didn't see the movie, but I DID see reviews for it. Because I often do look at them first. Being honest and sincere about my unsure feelings, and since I was uninformed. Asked about something similar instead. Hoping (in vain) that I could still start a friendly informative discussion about something. See how social-ness/starting discussions with other people and how it works now? (or at least how I see the 101 guide on "How to be social online.") :D

Ban the Person above you

Banned for not letting someone be a misanthrope.

Men vs. Women Race to 1000

-40

Ghost in the Shell was a good movie.

@mdk Hmm...I honestly can't tell if that statement is suppose to be ironic. :P I'll probably watch it eventually, I know my other friend wants to see it. So if I see it, it probably won't be alone.

Why do people not want to do premade plots?

@Lady Selune That's odd. D: I often come up with multiple plotlines and ask my partner does the same, and we just kind of go through whatever idea we like best. That basically counts as pre-made plots. Unless it's so specific and no one allows for alters and wiggle room, I see nothing wrong with creating a "starting point" of sorts.