SleepingSilence

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Penny Is the 'semi-' prefix just in case you want to move to Canada? :P

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

I actually love to watch Fox News, I have a sort of sick fascination.

Edit: Although I don't currently have cable so when I say watch I mean online. Sort of miss those store gold for the apocalypse commercials though....

@Penny

Welp. If true, pardon my slanderous assumption. But really, just watch the Alex Jones show...just clips of that make it look quite entertaining. Fox is just meandering. (I guess Tucker Carlson gets into some pretty unique convo's...<.<)

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Penny Fair enough.

Assuming you hate them, without ever actually watching them?

(My educated guess coming from nearly all the people that do that from just about everything even disregarding politics, the multiple and endless propaganda propelled by many and the fact you already used "bias" to disregard evidence. And the fact anyone who doesn't fart out money and knows what the internet/Netflix is and is a millennial, probably doesn't even have cable. But just spit balling, free feel to correct me.)

Instead, of the actual reasons I, you or others, shouldn't trust fox news and dislike them like the rest of the mainstream media...

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

This is going to sound a little weird but I think association with you is one of the few positive things I have taken from this thread. No matter how many times I try to put you into a mental box you continue to defy expectation in surprising ways. Even though we disagree violently on nearly everything it is refreshing to encounter someone that isn't a set of Fox News talking points that wishes they were a real boy.

End of positive thoughts.

@Penny

You give Fox News way too much credit when it comes to speaking rational common sense points, that anyone not trying to get imaginary victim credit to give themselves pats on the back, while the rampant suicide continues from unchecked mental health issues.

Maybe it's not a "right wing" point that gender isn't "a social construct" in any remotely meaningful way. If we want to argue a semantic difference between sex and gender as words. Fine. But you want to tell me there's more than two actual genders? Having no evidence on earth to proof that, please tell me how many genders there are?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Andreyich Yeah, no thanks. But not to press you down and have you elaborate. But enlighten me. How many genders are there? If we're getting into that argument. We should actually know the number. And subsequently, why do all imaginary genders conform to those two specific words. And transgenders, with gender in the name, only convert FTM MTF?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Blah blah blah.

@Penny

When discourse reminds you of a Ke$ha song...

If all parties are of age and consent then it isn't up to me to determine whether or not it is emotionally healthy. Plenty of traditional marriages are super unhealthy as even a cursory review of domestic violence statistics will demonstrate.

@Penny

Your first sentence doesn't matter nor respond to anything I've criticized. What you determine is moot, science and law should already be doing that for us. That logic is the reason people need to put "don't microwave your cat" in instruction manuals.

The second sentence literally proves nothing. Because nontraditional marriages have that too. And you stated the concept itself is unhealthy and since you can't counter any evidence. (or even read or try to.) I've shown how that isn't factually accurate.

Interesting how people who claim to be on the individual freedom band wagon get so squeamish when you actually apply it to something the don't like.

@Penny

This is the stupidest point/gotcha moment line, you could make in any debate. Murder isn't okay either. But yes, I still like capitalism...your point being? I'm not someone fuck my cat, just because he has the choice to do it.

Every point you make exactly mirrors the same objections which were trotted out over and over against gay marriage. I did not find them convincing them and I do not now.

@Penny

(And because you aren't trying...I'm at least throwing in one video response to save me writing time.)



Edit:

@SleepingSilence You do understand that by 'of age' we are talking legal consenting age for marriage right?

@Penny

My mistake. I misread that as age and consent don't matter, we shouldn't judge, The argument was so bare-thin. I assume the moving goal post went as far left as humanly possible.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Penny There's many, many more problems and people haven't changed...biology never changed, there's still only 2 genders. You can pretend there's not a strong argument. I find absurdly high increased risks of health, a bit concerning. It's not even close to as dangerous and in percentage of commonality. (That goes to you too, it's not even close in determining risk factor of offspring between others that aren't related, because I was already aware there was more issues, hell I already posted them. @POOHEAD189)

ranker.com/list/genetic-mutation-from…

science-facts.net/human-health/what-i…

"The third major after effect of incest is the influence that it has on the psychology of an individual. Feelings of shame, moral degradation and self-disgust are among some of the more dominant results of the act of incest.

This is partly due to the moral laws that are laid down regarding the act and also due to the connection between the mind and the body. When we look at the moral taboos, we are dealing not only with religion but also with school education, home teachings, social values and legal rules.

Morality, in the case of incest, is deeply connected with the institutes of Law, Religion and even Science.

Overall, the effect of incest on the human psyche can truly be devastating. From depression to suicidal tendencies, the consequences are astoundingly serious and this can be one of the reasons that it is considered such a taboo among all."

There's a little more to it than you claim. You aren't even backing any actual arguments with evidence here, you are literally making the exact same fallacious arguments people were mocking. You just straight up compared gays to incest...so if you find both morally and psychologically equivalent, we can't find any ground to even agree to disagree. You're being outright intellectually dishonest. You just straw-manned too...no one whatsoever has argued about forcing straights to marry gays. This is the problem with being in a bubble...

Every. Single. Link. I. Posted. (clap emoji) Had more than health in their critiques of Incest. Proving you didn't even skim any of them to any substantial degree, let alone read one. How can we have an honest conversation, of nothing but fallacious arguments and not even read ONE of the links provided NEEDED to grasp the context of the argument...

And ignoring personal anecdotes. Prove to me, with counter evidence, how great incest relationships are...you need more than "oh, but I think it should be okay, who are we too judge" when health and society worsens from it. But since you've said "Life goes on." Like you expect morality and common sense to just collapse in on itself without consequences and in 5 years marrying your dog will be on the table and with enough people, you'll not want to judge that right? Why judge anyone it if it hurts their feelings? Because that thought process is impossible to be honest about, because it's completely against human nature. And society didn't grow of the whim of the stupidest and craziest among people...

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I would hope that from my posts it is clear that I DO want to ban/take (some) guns away.

@Penny

Okay. Neato. I recommend watching that AR video I posted. To add more to your ban list. (Might I suggest all, saves the trouble of needing more laws later. *read this like a waiter recommending you the soup of the day*) Though you really should post this in the discord thread. Make both sides mind explode. Please? We'd probably both get a kick out of it? I'll give you a humble bundle of steam games codes if you at @ everyone who uses it. You can even say "I made you do it." <.< *I'm like 80% serious about this joke bribe*

Though I'll note you can't give me a 'bias' pass off, the daily mail ain't right wing. (that I'm aware of.) And ignoring the best phrase of "even a broken clock is right twice a day." It would be beneficial for you personally, to not disregard something just because of the person or thing saying it. But I digress.

If you'll allow me to be snarky. Australia "allows" guns, like Canada "allows" speech...until you misgender someone Then off to the tribunals with you heathen.

And a quick reply to that.

I start from the premise that all relationships take place between consenting adults.

@Penny

You already are too right wing for progressives at slate. And also more Conservative than U.S law. :D

(Pedophiles and age of consent laws very wildly around the globe, let alone US. To explain my sarcasm.)

It doesn't really matter if I think its mentally healthy or not.

@Penny

Society kind of matters though. And it honestly should...since you also limit consent and adults...you can't "not" judge and still have standards. Deja vu, I know I've said this before.

I've certainly met poly people who are in seemingly healthy happy relationships and traditional marriages which are clearly mental deathtraps which shouldn't exist in a just universe.

@Penny

theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015…

politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/p…

blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2012/01…

themerelyreal.wordpress.com/2012/08/2…

bigkingken.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/p…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3782180

I uh...provided more options for you this time. ^-^'

Also on tradition marriages...the thing that best guarantees personal health and happiness and financial stability being in your term "a mental death trap" I disagree strongly...

louderwithcrowder.com/facts-marriage-…

At the risk of being somewhat controversial - Incest is actually sort of an interesting case and I'd like people to keep an open mind about it. Then again not all relationships have producing children as a goal.

@Penny

I'm glad you'd like that...frankly the fact you added the caveat of being controversial...but your original quote actually doesn't exclude incest...I wonder if you've really thought about what you're advocating for here.

And to paraphrase someone else's joke. An asexual society, can't last very long. But to be more serious, we're already seeing the problems of not enough births in other nations around the world. Like...(So in short. Yeah. Sex was literally made for that purpose...And marriage was the best way to do that and not have a single parent household.)

marketwatch.com/story/low-fertility-r…

worldview.stratfor.com/article/fertil…

It creates a sort of moral double standard. I'll admit that I suffer from the same social ick factor as most people but I'm not sure that should be controlling.

@Penny

You should be. It's not just because it's "icky". Society didn't want too many of the population fucking their relatives, because babies are born risking more horrible problems with health/birth defects. To spare sounding any more politically incorrect I won't get into all the other examples that don't exactly produce offspring. Something that has potential to end civilizations...

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

I'm for polyamorus relationships being legally recognized yes. I'd frankly rather we abolished marriage as a civil institution all together and handled all the legal rights we currently assign to marriage by a civil union.

@Penny

I'd prefer the latter too. ^-^' But, yeah you have no idea (neither do I for that matter.) how bad for society that would be...and nearly impossible for the government to keep track of, while keeping marriage law the way it is...

So how far is too far for you? Incest? People marrying their 3DS? (if only this was a joke.) How about sex? I feel like when you start going..."Yeah, polygamy is probably sustainable and mentally healthy." I don't even understand why'd you deny anyone love at that point. Go full progressive. For lack of better term.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

It is a little hard to see how a regulation which would actually help would ever be considered constitutional. A system like Australia uses for example would probably have a positive effect but it would almost certainly be eviscerated by the courts (even if angels came down from heaven and forced congress, the senate and the president to sign off on it - presumably at gun point).

@Penny

Well here's hoping you never claim, you don't want to ban/take guns away.

Australia's "system" was a mandatory gun buyback program that forced people to give up their weapons and it didn't drop crime in the slightest. (I guess even it's own government admitted it's failings.)

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3562714/…

To spare everyone a link to the huffington post. Let me just post a part of an article...

"As the United States grappled with yet another senseless mass shooting, this time in Las Vegas, Australia was dealing with a gun problem of its own.

Namely, just exactly what to do with more than 26,000 firearms surrendered to authorities during a three-month national gun amnesty."

Yeah you can't "like the 2nd amendment" and think even for a split second that we should be more like Australia. Sorry, that's my own personal line in the sand...

bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/10/21/aust…