Avatar of The Red Seelie
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Recent Statuses

7 yrs ago
Y'know with all the new Isekai concepts coming out, I wonder if there is an isekai concept for "Reincarnated as a Truck that sends people to other worlds"
3 likes
7 yrs ago
Draw 2 Cards
1 like
10 yrs ago
When your bored but don't really know why.
2 likes
11 yrs ago
That moment when you have a billion ideas and can't write them all down
1 like
11 yrs ago
I always win the coin flip... always...
4 likes

Bio

hi

Most Recent Posts

@1Charak2

Poison sounds nice...

until you forgrt your weapon is poisoned and cut open a wound in your hand so your Mana Burst (Flame) can actually do some noticable damage


Unless his poison immunity is universal, That open wound is going to be Locusta's ticket to actually win.

*E+ Endurance is irravelent if your opponents guts are on the floor from drugging them up with some basilisk venom*
@Turboshitter@vancexentan

Here is Lancer with the modifications requested.

I'm still feeling iffy about how Lancer requires a skill to further state that he's not actually a god. He never confirmed or denied that he was a God when reading back in his lifetime (or at least, it wasn't written that he did or did not). Innocent Monster also implies that his reputation as the Sun God caused his whole reputation to change in the public eye. We can't say his cruelty grants him Innocent Monster since Sadistic Constitution already does that, too. I'd just rather Lancer not have such a skill, especially in line with how Mana Burst (Flames) served as a good explanation to how he can barely access the authority of the Divine - He draws upon the power of the Aztec Divine Spirits, not his own. Additionally, he pretty much has what amounts to a whopping 6 Personal Skills if we were being real with Lancer's Riding skill.

Adding on to the reason why I don't think an extra skill is necessary, remember that these skills would provide the user with benefits. Lancer would basically have too much beneficial skills. This goes especially in line with Divinity since it has limitless applications from breaking through protection such as Protection of the Faith or Enlightenment of the Fig Tree, to giving the Servant the ability to hurt Achilles without aiming for his heel.

Basically, he already has alot of skills as is, as well as one that makes enough sense to explain where he gets the things his association with the Sun God nets him. Giving him Innocent Monster, or especially Divinity adds more power to an already pretty strong Servant, and I'd rather not do that, so if it's still under negotiation, I'd rather not have it necessary for him to have an extra skill that just says "oh he's not a god" when he already has a few that already do.

Anyway, here's Wonderwall.



You know Locusta is going to give him some real powerful poison way above his paygrade right.
"I thought he was a god"
@vancexentan@Turboshitter@1Charak2

How does an unranked skill in Divinity (False) sound? I can probably think of a more interesting name, by the way. It'll work similarly to Karna's Uncrowned Arms Mastership (which is also unranked) where until his true name is revealed, he appears to be qualified as a Divine Spirit for all effects that would detect such. (so basically a pseudo Divinity A.)


Seems fine.
<Snipped quote by Turboshitter>

I'd like to cite the more recent Fate/Apocrypha Lancer Vlad. He doesn't have Innocent Monster as a skill, or any skill that denotes to him being Dracula (with Demonic Defender of State only alluding to his real life viciousness as to how he defended Wallachia) and only one of his Noble Phantasms alludes to his more worldwide famous legend of being Dracula. This is in comparison to the Fate/Extra Vlad, who does indeed have Innocent Monster as a Skill but was summoned in more specific/special circumstances whereas Apocrypha!Vlad was summoned in a setting much closer to a traditional Holy Grail War.

Both Innocent Monster and Divinity seem inappropriate for him to have, although if it's necessary, I suppose a Divinity (False) rank might work, similarly to how Imperial Privilege at a high rank can make someone insist they're a god.
[@Cu Chul

[quote=@Cu Chulainn]


I'd say give them an honourary skill that makes it appear they have divinity but they recieve no benefit.

Purely fits with people seeing him as a godlike being.

But hes not at all
<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

After doing research on all canon Heroic Spirits who do have Divinity, I believe I have to correct myself. It's not even a denial of his supposed godhood, if we're being technical. His divinity isn't speculated, it just isn't there. He isn't a divine spirit, nor is he related to one, nor is he worshiped in the way a saint is. There aren't any cults to Pedro de Alvarado, and his skills come from what the natives saw him as. He never ascended as a divine spirit, and if he did, then pretty much all foreigners/conquistadors of his time should be divine spirits then, since he isn't the only foreigner that could have been mistook for a God due to his foreign looks.

He's not a god. He's not part god. He's not worshipped as a god. No real aptitude for Divinity. He's just drawing on the power of the legends where he's associated with the Sun God, just like how other Heroic Spirits draw upon their own legends to produce their various abilities.


Drawing on Legends (of being seen as the sun god) which you say he denies seems to counteract his personality. As drawing on that power would make his statement on not wanting to be seen as that, kinda hypocritical. So if he did have them They would probably be sealed until forced out by a command seal.

Purely put his powers are conflicting.

edit; IT can be seen similar to Lancer Dracula.

You have to force him to activate the NP phantasm.
<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

He gains his power by association, not by actually being a perceived god, as explained multiple times on his sheet. Giving him Divinity or Innocent Monster is just giving him another skill, which in turn is giving him more benefits. Technically he'd have way too much skills as a result.


If his powers are by association which he denies due to his devout Catholicism. Then half of his stuff makes no sense and seems tacked as it conflicts which his denial of god hood even a mockery of it.

You could easily shift some things around to better suit the mortal man. Just remove the mana burst (which is hypocrisy.)

Keep the second NP as him being associated with the sun god but his denial restricts it to being a NP only.

Then just have the two parameters raised by the spear have a minus modifier due to his denial.
@vancexentan

If we're being technical, the Noble Phantasm isn't specifically the horse. It's the mental interference that makes people think Lancer is a centaur when riding into battle. I even cited that as an example, if he were summoned as a Rider, he'd be able to actually use it regularly. It's like Mordred's Secret of Pedigree, which would normally seem to be a skill that belongs to an Assassin.

His second Noble Phantasm does actually match his infamy in history, and if you gave at least his Wikipedia page a read, or some other biographies about Pedro, then it'd be easily understandable how infamous he is. He isn't taught in school because of how he didn't actually contribute to history. He's known to be ruthless, even for a conquistador. One that various people made actual legends about. And if we are to compare between his NP and Blood Arthur, Blood Arthur is still arguably stronger. Pedro's second NP is basically a bird shaped giant fireball. They share the same NP rank, for one, and Pedro's NP has more factors as to whether it'd be less effective against certain foes.

Conquistador doesn't give its boosts unless you're actually in enemy territory. It's like if he were summoned as Lancer of Red, he'd have to be in the Yggdimillenia Castle or in Lancer of Black's claimed leylines in order to get its boosts. Plus, there's other canon skills that would boost parameters when surrounded by enemies, and it wouldn't make as much sense. Skills are pretty specific in what they intend. Just because he's surrounded by enemies doesn't mean he'd get the boost. He'd have to be in their actual territory in order to use it.

As for Lancer's Magic Resistance, if you read the last sentence in its description, then its plus modifier would be clear as to what it does.

@1Charak2

In the Fate universe, Heroic Spirits actually can deny certain skills, with Divinity being one of them, and yet still have another feature that alludes to such. Alexander has Divinity because he recognizes himself as the son of Zeus, and even if he didn't, due to how old he is in history, and that we're dealing with the Fate universe where gods did exist and he's from the Age of Gods, then him having a ranking in that skill makes sense. Lancer on the other hand has no cults dedicated to him, and would deny that he's actually a sun god seeing as he's a pretty devout Catholic as implied from his first NP, among other things.

And to further add to the example of denial, Vlad doesn't have 10 skills saying he's a Vampire because people said so. In fact, in the version where he denies he is a Vampire, the only thing that alludes to him being a vampire is his second NP.

If I were to give Pedro Divinity, then I'd have to rank up his Mana Burst and do all sorts of adjustments, because there's multiple citations in his sheet that say that his "divine" abilities are only a mockery compared to actual divine spirits.


Secret of pedigree can be seen as something similar to Lancelots skill that also masks who they are.

I think the entire character is one of confliction. Denies his divinity due to being a devout follower of the lord. Yet the second noble phantasm and the mana burst are a direct result of his 'divinity'. If you remove NP 2 and the mana burst. Then you have yourself the devout conquestor.

The other half is a percieved sun god, which you say he denies. Thus making those skills hypocritical.

In my opinion Cu, you should pick either the percieved sun god (which is unlikely) or the devout conqueror.

@Cu Chulainn

The thing about FATE servants is that they tend to manifest things even after they are dead. Vlad gained his vamperic qualitys not from life but from people believing him to be dracula. Same can be said for Lancer Balthory, Her Innocent monster manifested because of peoples beliefs, Shes not actually a dragon girl.

So even so he should probably have E- Divinity at the very least due to him being initially seen as the god of the sun, and most of his powers originating from that (such as mana burst flame, being the best example, which could easily be chalked up to him having due to peoples belief)

@1Charak2@vancexentan

Sorry @vancexentan, I only tagged Turbo because he wasn't online at the time I posted Lancer's sheet.

I believe his third NP reasonably belongs there mainly due to the fact that it's fairly easy to kill, anyway. His horse isn't like a normal Rider's mount, so it doesn't get beefed up stats, and it only serves as extra transportation in a fight. It's basically one of those "one and done" Noble Phantasms that will probably only see the light of day to one, maybe two fights overall in the span of the entire Holy Grail War.

As for why it rivals Balmung in power, it is because of its false divine nature. While it is still a mockery of a divine authority, it still imitates it to some effect. He was seen and partially worshipped as a Sun God, after all. Added with how he razed a bunch of temples and is famous for being a dick (which is why you don't learn about him in history class), I'd come to believe that an attack based off of pure destruction of that magnitude would be pretty formitable.

@MeteorD

The reason why Artoria doesn't have a high rank in Riding is because she has no legends regarding her mounting anything, and only has the skill because she's a knight trained in it. Pedro on the other hand does have one notable legend about him riding a horse, which is seen in his third NP. Plus, when Artoria is summoned as a Lancer, she gets an A-rank in Riding along with her own (nothing special) horse


Wheres his low ranking divinity? Due to those believing him to be the sun god incarnate. That usually grants low divinity. Seems like an interesting thing to leave absent considering he seems based more on his legend of being a god of the sun in terms of attacks.
@Turboshitter
And he's up! Probably a lesser known conquistador, but still one of the first. Has a few interesting legends around him, like how he was believed to be a god.

If my reasoning for why Riding is a class skill of his isn't feasible, I could always move it to one of his Personal Skills and he'll still meet the max amount of skills.



Can I just ask, why does he have so many NP's...? The final one appears more rider then lancer and could easily be exempt since its purely more of a defensive skill which the first one covers.

In my opinion this one does a bit much as is

*At the very least give him the terrible lancer luck*
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