Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Willy Vereb
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Willy Vereb The Wordy Engineer

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@Dinh AaronMkThe point if divergence part was enough for me, that means the Serenissima gets sacked for sure.
I don't know what alternate history nation or faction I come up with yet. We'll see.
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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Considering the need for players, does the restriction for me to restrict my guys to the Baltic or Balkans still apply?

Edit: Yes, you explained that my previous app could only have worked if I had a suitable foreign patron.

Edit 2: Pre-emptive 'Understood' and 'Point taken' for if the answer to my question is 'yes'.


I don't even remember what you wanted
Hidden 1 yr ago 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

I don't even remember what you wanted


Muhammad Ali's Egypt. You restricted me to the Balkans and Baltics because Pagemaster threatened to raze my coastal cities and I decided to escalate and throw a tantrum, which though bad, was also because no one sat me down and explained that Egypt was not doing it all in a vacuum but had a foreign patron (you did do that eventually, btw).

Edit: Revised to tone down Muhammad Ali's ambitions!



Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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@Letter Bee

My points on Egypt still stand as they did before. Egypt would exist in a delicate balance of social relationships within the Middle East as was carried out by the Ottoman Empire. Similarly Muhammad Ali exists predominately by the will of the Ottomans that granted him permission to be the ruler of Egypt to begin with and ruling Egypt was a balance of maintaining that cordial feudal relationship with the Ottomans as much as it was having to fight them now and then to maintain independence at arm's reach, as with anyone in the greater Levant, Arabian peninsula, and Mesopotamia who would be as much subjects of the Ottomans as they were independent actors doing their own thing on pure vibe.

And besides the fractious conditions of this RP, the European calculus towards the Middle East and larger Ottoman Empire is always how best to use them as the foil to the Russian Empire. Neglecting the Ottoman Empire to allow them to break down too fast creates a void that the Russians could use to surge back from their punishment and bruising during the later alt-Napoleonic timeline, where even the Persians had the opportunity to nip at the Russian frontier and make gains on them after a little over a century of losing.

Internally in Egypt you have to remember that the departure of Napoleon from Egypt would have been still at best bitter, because he was not a popular figure in Egypt at all and anyone doing rapid western modernizations in Egypt could well be seen as just another Napoleon, even if they are Albanian Muslim and not French. But much of the Egyptian industrialization was fueled by European coal and would or could be very vulnerable to being leveraged that way. All those state centralizations and nationalism that Mohammad Ali did? Not only unpopular to his restless Egyptian subjects but also tasteless for European investors and parties who would source Egypt their most valuable coal to run their manufacturing depots.

A large part of this may just be an overall lack of regional players to drive competitive or antagonistic relationships towards Egypt. But skimming the app it's roughly the same as it ever was.
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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by TheEvanCat
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@Letter Bee

My points on Egypt still stand as they did before. Egypt would exist in a delicate balance of social relationships within the Middle East as was carried out by the Ottoman Empire. Similarly Muhammad Ali exists predominately by the will of the Ottomans that granted him permission to be the ruler of Egypt to begin with and ruling Egypt was a balance of maintaining that cordial feudal relationship with the Ottomans as much as it was having to fight them now and then to maintain independence at arm's reach, as with anyone in the greater Levant, Arabian peninsula, and Mesopotamia who would be as much subjects of the Ottomans as they were independent actors doing their own thing on pure vibe.

And besides the fractious conditions of this RP, the European calculus towards the Middle East and larger Ottoman Empire is always how best to use them as the foil to the Russian Empire. Neglecting the Ottoman Empire to allow them to break down too fast creates a void that the Russians could use to surge back from their punishment and bruising during the later alt-Napoleonic timeline, where even the Persians had the opportunity to nip at the Russian frontier and make gains on them after a little over a century of losing.

Internally in Egypt you have to remember that the departure of Napoleon from Egypt would have been still at best bitter, because he was not a popular figure in Egypt at all and anyone doing rapid western modernizations in Egypt could well be seen as just another Napoleon, even if they are Albanian Muslim and not French. But much of the Egyptian industrialization was fueled by European coal and would or could be very vulnerable to being leveraged that way. All those state centralizations and nationalism that Mohammad Ali did? Not only unpopular to his restless Egyptian subjects but also tasteless for European investors and parties who would source Egypt their most valuable coal to run their manufacturing depots.

A large part of this may just be an overall lack of regional players to drive competitive or antagonistic relationships towards Egypt. But skimming the app it's roughly the same as it ever was.


Persia is, in this RP, undergoing those kinds of Western modernization as a result of being the vacation paradise for exiled Napoleonic loyalists. If anything, when I wrote the app, I imagined Persia as hyper-French (more so than it was irl, where it kind of got a ton of Russian influence later on in the 19th century in the form of the Persian cossacks) where Napoleon lives on through the Shah who's a total Francoboo and generally feels the need to be competitive to Russia, the Ottomans, and probably now also Egypt.

The perfect storm of Napoleonic imperialism and the traditional Persian desire to go back to being a great power... not many folks on the borders are going to like that very much, which sets up some competition.
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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Yam I Am
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Well since this is getting necro'd and we need a Big Bad analogy, I asked Aaron and he agreed to let me to Decembrist Russia. Go nuts

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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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@Letter Bee

My points on Egypt still stand as they did before. Egypt would exist in a delicate balance of social relationships within the Middle East as was carried out by the Ottoman Empire. Similarly Muhammad Ali exists predominately by the will of the Ottomans that granted him permission to be the ruler of Egypt to begin with and ruling Egypt was a balance of maintaining that cordial feudal relationship with the Ottomans as much as it was having to fight them now and then to maintain independence at arm's reach, as with anyone in the greater Levant, Arabian peninsula, and Mesopotamia who would be as much subjects of the Ottomans as they were independent actors doing their own thing on pure vibe.

And besides the fractious conditions of this RP, the European calculus towards the Middle East and larger Ottoman Empire is always how best to use them as the foil to the Russian Empire. Neglecting the Ottoman Empire to allow them to break down too fast creates a void that the Russians could use to surge back from their punishment and bruising during the later alt-Napoleonic timeline, where even the Persians had the opportunity to nip at the Russian frontier and make gains on them after a little over a century of losing.

Internally in Egypt you have to remember that the departure of Napoleon from Egypt would have been still at best bitter, because he was not a popular figure in Egypt at all and anyone doing rapid western modernizations in Egypt could well be seen as just another Napoleon, even if they are Albanian Muslim and not French. But much of the Egyptian industrialization was fueled by European coal and would or could be very vulnerable to being leveraged that way. All those state centralizations and nationalism that Mohammad Ali did? Not only unpopular to his restless Egyptian subjects but also tasteless for European investors and parties who would source Egypt their most valuable coal to run their manufacturing depots.

A large part of this may just be an overall lack of regional players to drive competitive or antagonistic relationships towards Egypt. But skimming the app it's roughly the same as it ever was.


It's a direct copy-paste as I was using it as an example; not a formal submission. I haven't made a decision on whether to re-apply yet; as you said, Egypt's position is more precarious than the app presents it as, even with a foreign patron.

But as it appears that I'm no longer restricted to the Balkans or Baltics, that widens my options, assuming I do decide to join and find a nation that fits the narrative(s) I want to tell.
Hidden 1 yr ago 1 yr ago Post by DELETED32084
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Well, in the words of the famous British General Lee Roy Jenkins “Let’s f*cking gooooooo!”
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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Spain is losing its Colonial Empire to Revolution, correct?
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Spain is losing its Colonial Empire to Revolution, correct?


It would have basically already lost pretty much everything in South America
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

It would have basically already lost pretty much everything in South America


Early loss of the Philippines is in the realm of possibility, yes?
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Early loss of the Philippines is in the realm of possibility, yes?


Not even in the scope of the RP.

@Yam I Am
You're good to switch to the Decemberists chief
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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by TheEvanCat
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Early loss of the Philippines is in the realm of possibility, yes?


Just play the game by the rules, buddy. Make it make sense. Does your idea make sense? Does it play the game? No? Easy.
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

Not even in the scope of the RP.

@Yam I Am
You're good to switch to the Decemberists chief


Understood.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

Just play the game by the rules, buddy. Make it make sense. Does your idea make sense? Does it play the game? No? Easy.


Point taken. I'll either take Egypt after all or be the Papacy or maybe Bavaria.

Edit: It depends on what narrative I want to tell.
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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@Letter Bee

Technically, Bavaria is taken


Technically, yes. Saxony was folded into Prussia in this timeline as well, right?
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Technically, yes. Saxony was folded into Prussia in this timeline as well, right?


If you can give a good reason for it to be either or, so it shall be. All the German states aren't going to be on the map because fuck that
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Hidden 1 yr ago Post by Letter Bee
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<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

If you can give a good reason for it to be either or, so it shall be. All the German states aren't going to be on the map because fuck that


Hmm, I am also considering Prussia and Hannover.
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by TheEvanCat
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Put together a character list on the application sheet since I understand that a lot of these names and relations can get rather dense.

Lotta dudes doin' dude shit. Doesn't help that half these guys are related so they've all got the same names.
Hidden 1 yr ago Post by DELETED32084
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@Dinh AaronMkdo you mind reviewing my sheet? If you’re good with the history still, as per the original approval, can you please modify the world map so I don’t have some wanna be “U-S-A! U-S-A!” player diving in there thinking it’s all hunkydorie please?
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