[OOC] The Savage And Subservient (SleepingSilence x KatherinWinter)

[KatherinWinter]

Well I had a couple of ideas in the tunnels

She reached out and touched Bastian's paw. She didn't know much about magic but she could see that the woman's magic was similar to his. But she didn't think that meant that she was on there side. Liz hesitated a minute before expressing her concerns. "Bastian what did moving the horse and wagon accomplish? The guards will know you have it. I don't know where this tunnel goes. Do you?"

I was planning a trap but that didn't work out. When I asked if the things Bastian were seeing were illions caused by the fog I had an idea to use that to reveal alittle of Liz's past but it was all internal and had nothing to do with the fog. I dropped hints in the IC. I do not plan out the story ahead of time. If I have an idea I will hint at it through the character's thoughts or actions. If my partner follows than I will develop the idea. If not I let it go. Yes the beastkind I introduced could return but he won't. There is no point.

[SleepingSilence]

Well I had a couple of ideas in the tunnels <Snipped quote> I was planning a trap but that didn't work out. When I asked if the things Bastian were seeing were illions caused by the fog I had an idea to use that to reveal alittle of Liz's past but it was all internal and had nothing to do with the fog. I dropped hints in the IC. I do not plan out the story ahead of time. If I have an idea I will hint at it through the character's thoughts or actions. If my partner follows than I will develop the idea. If not I let it go. Yes the beastkind I introduced could return but he won't. There is no point.

@KatherinWinter

Okay, I'm under the assumption since I asked to bring up every other time, that one example is your answer. So you're saying I ignored that in IC. So let me bring your post and mine, side by side. And I'll examine that.

Liz frowned at how the woman was talking to Bastian. The beastkind wasn't stupid. Maybe rash but not stupid. Rash maybe but not stupid. He survived in a world that she barely understood. She didn't like the way the woman treated Bastian but she didn't care say anything. It was the first time that her status, rather than her lack of courage, stopped her from doing something. Liz mught not be able to stand up for herself but she had stood up for others in the past.

She reached out and touched Bastian's paw. She didn't know much about magic but she could see that the woman's magic was similar to his. But she didn't think that meant that she was on there side. Liz hesitated a minute before expressing her concerns. "Bastian what did moving the horse and wagon accomplish? The guards will know you have it. I don't know where this tunnel goes. Do you?"

They couldn't really afford the delay but something wasn't right here. Liz didn't know what it was. She thought they needed to stop and evaluate the situation. Moving the wagon accomplished nothing as far as she could see. It only delayed them which couldn't be a good thing. They needed to be ready for whatever was at the end of the tunnel.

@KatherinWinter

What this post did:

1. First paragraph is just character building and your character's own thoughts.

2. The character expressed mistrust and uncertainty of the women's behavior and action. Which makes rational sense, though you describe her as naive. (I suppose it would be strange if I also didn't acknowledge this in IC.)

3. And asked a question about the tunnels and made a statement about the guards. (So for me to ignore this in IC, I'd have to not acknowledge as a character that a question was asked/statement was said, right?)

The fog pouring from the tunnel’s exit, growing thicker like standing beside a blazing fire. The direction it headed was obscure as the woman’s explanations. Bastian looked down at Elizabeth, blinking, not knowing how to answer that. He was aware “Peddler” was a seldom used code name, for his beastkind friend. A well kept secret, meaning the assassin had to know him well enough for that. The sole reason for coming down here relied upon how much his friend allies could be trusted. His instincts were poorly balancing on a fine wire, high above the ground, wavering the longer he stood around. Only staying confident that he had made the correct decision, from his refusal to be wrong. He smiled at her, looking at the assassin, giving her a reserved stare.

“Although it remains speculation on my part. I’ve been told before that the assassin guilds have allied themselves over the past decade, which lead to them combing their resources and wide access to underground pathways. Impressive underground tunnels that are interconnected and span across multiple forts, towns and cities. Removing mountain ranges and heavily dense forests, large bodies of water, structures and the rest. Greatly reducing their travel times over what would be considered long distances...the guards in the city aren’t actually concerned with me, if anything they’d be interested in my knowledge of this place-” Bastian explained.

“And ya betta keep ya trap shot.” The woman scorned, rhythmically tapping her foot. One, two three times, growing further irritated, wiggling her fingers and toes. She stormed over and picked up her crossbow of the floor, and briefly aiming it toward Bastian, her arm fully extended, promptly pointing it at the entrance. “Ya know, I wahz only instructed to keep ya alive and take ya near the whoresis. Do not test me.”

“Maybe it’s pointless to ask questions. Clearly this woman isn’t mentally stable, leaving may be our better option...” Bastian thought clenching his paws, despite feeling disappointed in his own grumpiness, bitter as a lemon. Merely nodding and offering to take Elizabeth’s hand, before stepping through the fog and only time would answer where they’d eventually end up...

@SleepingSilence

In my post:

1. Very 2nd sentence acknowledge the uncertainty with the women's intentions. And my character later makes it clear he's on a similar page to Elizabeth.

2. In the very 3rd sentence, I acknowledge that she asked Bastian a question and he didn't know how to respond.

3. Goes into detail about, "where the tunnel may go" "guesses its purpose" AND "mention the guards, that Elizabeth were concerned about"

What, exactly was ignored here? What did I miss? I'm seriously asking this.

---

That the thing you wanted to do, you decided yourself wouldn't work? If you thought that, I won't question it. But how is what you decide my fault here? You don't want to bring that character back, because there's no point. But you can easily make a point for him. There's a plethora of ways, I could see that character coming back in a realistic way. I don't think throwing the baby out with the bathwater is particularly helpful in terms of roleplaying. And again, if you have an idea even if it's a vague one. And you need to be certain about every idea before it unfolds in IC. You can ask me to tell you what I have planned...and I'll answer. Put a suggestion in OOC, I'll talk about it.

There's not a single time I've ever ignored the content of your IC post. I've read every, single, one of them thoroughly.

I'm sorry if you think ideas you subtly want to introduce, happen to be taken in another direction that you didn't expect. If non-linear story telling is an inherently bad thing. But it is absolutely not from me ignoring your posts.

[KatherinWinter]

Yes you acknowledged Liz's question and distrust. I am not saying that you are ignoring my posts. I can tell you are reading them. But you are either ignoring or not wanting to take the paths that I am hinting at. When Liz suggested that moving the wagon didn't accomplish anything I was indicating that I had an idea that would use the thieves tunnels to misdirect them. With the fog I thought maybe it was something that could affect like a drug that made them see things. I thought you were going with that idea until you clarified the choking scene you wrote. I have questions you in OOC every time I have had an idea. None of them have gotten every far. While you might see way to bring the beastkind back I don't. First Bastian is only going to get worse so the chances of him accepting the others help is slimer. Plus the way that character was going to help Bastian is no longer possible. If another opening happens I'll think about it but at this moment I don't see that happening. I do not plan out my RPs. I go with whatever feels right at the time. The characters control the story. I just go where they lead.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Well maybe the hinting you're doing is simply too subtle and indirect...

You thought that the tunnel and woman acting suspicions was going to turn out badly. As did Bastian. But he said himself, there wasn't any other option...(whether true or not, that didn't actually get questioned by Elizabeth. You didn't outright make a suggest, to someone use the fog against them, honestly I don't even see how that could be interpreted from the passage in question.)

And I clearly explained what the fog was afterward. And I didn't really actually see you describing in IC what you are in OOC. Elizabeth had no clear plan or suggest about the fog in question. (Or really what else to do...)

Like I don't understand why'd you design a character in IC, that can't and won't speak up for herself. Doesn't seem to know anything Bastian doesn't. But are concerned that her direction isn't being followed? She hasn't given any direction...

And I'm perfectly fine with not needing to plan everything. But when you state, "It's impossible! Elizabeth can't enter here!" in OOC. Instead of, maybe having Elizabeth be scared and not want to enter there. Or the many options to solve, you not putting your character in that scenario, through IC interaction.

Because, she can go there. You just oppose it, because you think it could potentially lead to extra suspicion and that it may take a lengthy time given your character.

Well, if that does happen, more drama and that can't be a bad thing. But this is also, his only active lead. And he can't legally enter there. What, realistically, can Bastian do? Is my character acting out of character? Is yours for following orders?

You'd said what he can't do now. He wouldn't be able to remove the collar realistically. And its fine if he doesn't know that. And she likely can't/won't be good at communication with other like-minded criminals and people she'd reasonably seen all the time in prison/previous slave work. Though that depends how her prison life was like.

Like I'm genuinely wondering if you're getting upset with my character in IC, vs anything I'm actually doing. Because you had similar concern sparked, when he didn't actually have information on those who kidnapped him and was doing work that seemed to stray from his main task. Like it was somehow, a mistake I've made.

No, both were plot related, and one has been made clear by now and its perfectly in character...

[KatherinWinter]

I told you when we started this that I had a subservient person. I told you that I was hesitant to use her because she was so meek. I don't use Liz for adventures because she is so limiting. She is a great character and she has alot of room to grow but there are alot of things she simply can't do. Liz is a quiet and shy woman. She grew up in a very restrictive and controlling environment. Being told what to do wouldn't be new to her. She was convicted alittle over a year ago so she has little experience as a slave. I am going to remove that so she can do more. I am even willing to make her alittle more experienced so that she can do more even though doing that means rewriting her history. However neither of these things change the fact that what you want Liz to do makes no sense to me. As much as I would love to I can't write something that makes no sense to me. Even if Liz knew more about the world it wouldn't help her know what questions to ask. Honestly I can only think of two. Are you the bladed beauty and do you know where the blade beauty can be found. I can't imagine someone who doesn't want the wrong people to find her answering either of those questions. Which leaves me with her talking about changing her appearance. I will have to find a way to work that into the changes I am making in Liz.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I understand her character. But you're telling me, you don't understand what I'm making her do. But it's not me, it's Bastian. Player knowledge, not character knowledge. Yes, I know and you know that maybe she wouldn't be able to do the hard task given to her and that it may not be the smartest decision and a rash move.

So what is Bastian? What is his thought process? That's the disconnect here. I perfectly understand why you're character is doing what they're doing. But you seem to be confusing, my actions and Bastian's actions.

If the actions don't seem rationally and substantiated enough. Don't just go, well I, in real life, certainly wouldn't do such a thing. Ask a different question.

Is Bastian, someone who is impulsive and often unself critical, who sees more than what Elizabeth sees in herself. (or at least tells himself that, since you look like his previous wife.) Having one single lead, narrowed down to one location and one building. In the entire expanded world, so all you need to do is find a human to go there and find ONE person, even assume it's as she given the nickname. Cuts 50% of the people in the building, if not more. Because tell me how many women are in highly illegal gambling rings. And once finding that person, likely getting the most clues you've ever had to find the thing that Bastian considers his only true reason to carry on. Someone who you know/think changes their appearance on the spot, magic we've already establish can change and alter speech. So photo's and sketches or whatever, wouldn't be practical.

Does asking her to go in a building and find this person and trick her into going where Bastian can legally go, so he himself doesn't get in trouble. Not make sense, for his character?

If Elizabeth, not you, who doesn't understand Bastian. Then have her start asking questions..."Why do you trust me to do this? This may be your only chance to find the person that knows your kidnappers!? What if she leaves and I miss her? It will be my fault." "What should I ask? Will they even talk to a lowly slave?" I mean, seriously. There's many ways for this to go down in IC.

[KatherinWinter]

I guess I was giving Bastian the benefit of the doubt. He is an experienced warrior. He should know his request makes no sense. I guess he's not as smart as I hope which makes this all the harder. But I see your point. Liz would never question anyone even with the slave limits lifted. I will finish me edits. Liz isnt going to do Bastian any good the way I created her. I should have a post up tomorrow.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I don't think I've actually given a lot of my character's backstory thus far. (Maybe I'm going brain dead tonight.) How experienced really is he? And in what? I don't see highly intellectual and thoughtful commander on his CS. He's a guy who hunt and kills wild boars. Are you just kind of hoping he's experienced in children rescuing? Convenient as it would be, not on his lifetime experience resume. xP

But the thing he's requesting makes perfect sense to him. And honestly, given his options, how many better ways does he have to do this? The point is that he doesn't know how it will work, he's a guy who doesn't have all the answers. He also clearly has made plenty of mistakes already. A warrior skilled in fighting, endurance, things needed to track down dangerous people. Yes. But, he isn't a tactician. He isn't a genius. I'd figure this had been pretty clear in how I've wrote him.

And in your own CS, your character is smart, she's hardworking. I don't see why she couldn't/wouldn't make best with the little she had and find a woman in a likely male dominated building. Through what amounts to using your time wisely and effectively...

Bastian isn't actually asking for something that unrealistic, he rationalized that the people in this building wouldn't be suspicious of you. Because its a place likely full of criminals and the beastkind revolution outside is clearly a bigger concern...He wants her somewhere he thinks will be safer for her. He's doing this out of affection. And the fact he has no other choice. He can't get to her there, without stirring up trouble. He wants to do this the legal way. (You saw how friendly he was with strangers.) Her leaving that building, outside anywhere near the beastkind crowd will get her face possibly stomped in. I really don't understand the problem with his character action, from either a practical standpoint or an emotional one.

Also, one thing on not being sure if Bastian can change for the better. Well I've already kind of hinted that he's been doubtful of himself when he thinks about not being able to protect her well. So she already is, whether knowingly or not. And people sometime change, by force after they hit rock bottom first to do it. Maybe if Elizabeth tries to understand Bastian, opens up to him. We'll get somewhere with that. But I don't think she's actually told him her name yet. But that again, shows how the characters are...

In real life would she not have told her owner her name since he directly asked? I dunno. Doesn't seem rational to me, especially if scared of him at the time. But I'm putting real life out of a roleplaying story and letting the narrative flow and go where it may.

[KatherinWinter]

I assumed he hunted more than boars. I assumed he was a bounty hunter or something. Maybe not educated or smart. But someone who would have knowledge of the world. Someone who has had a family and done a fair bit of traveling I thought he was smart enough to know how to go about funding someone. But he doesnt. I dont how anyone can think asking around sbout someone who doesn't want certain parties to find her was a bad idea. But if that makes sense to him than thats what Liz will do. If I were playing the bladed beauty and I was hiding in a place few woman went I wouldnt appear to be a woman. If she can change her appearance theres no reason to assume she looks like a woman. And thats why Liz wont just approach women. Luz is hard working and smart. But she was limited by her status as a slave. Which isnt going to be a problem anymore. The changes I made should help that. As for Bastian changing that is possible but I worry it will be too late but we will see.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Well me mentioning killing boars is playful. But he's isn't an assassin, he isn't particularly experienced in what he's currently doing. He's decently well traveled, but clearly not enough to know about the things on going now. So I think you may overplay how well the average, or even above average man would do at actually finding kidnappers, in a world of magic. Where, you don't know their names, motive, location, looks, or even what time. Because they were not stolen right in front of him. So all things considered. Given who he's up against, he's done pretty well for himself.

He was actually sheltered much of his childhood. (though I haven't really gone into that too much.)

And actually, you make a perfectly fair point. That maybe she wouldn't look like a girl. Least from cursory idea. Though, I kind of imagined the person who gets called the bladed beauty, may be a little vain. (actually was figuring to make her alot vain.) So I don't know if she'd try to make herself ugly as sin. Maybe, in a place surrounded by criminals, she feels safe because she's in the in crowd. Maybe she's not hiding at all? Note, she's only rarely known outside her cliente. (He knows this solely because he got this tip from the dead friend, who he did favors for in return.) Not exactly on every town's bulletin board.

But if Elizabeth could presume and figure out motivations like that. She could probably come up some reason for why she needed to find her. Okay, she's a bad liar. But she's attractive, sex appeal can go a long way. And maybe she'll be lucky enough to have a few horribly drunk folks there. They tend to have very loose lips. We will see what you do, you're free to take the reins on how or if you find the bladed beauty.

I'm giving you the option to take the story in your own hands, if you want. (which is a OOC reason, I wanted this event to unfold. But the idea you'd have to split up to human-only territories was inevitable.)

[KatherinWinter]

Sorry sex appeal is out. That isnt something I can do. I have no problem with the human only element. While he might not to used to kidnappers or know who he was hunting I guess I thought he would know more about trying to find people. After all I've never looked for a criminal but I have some general ideas on how to do it even without books and movie knowledge.

[SleepingSilence]

After all I've never looked for a criminal but I have some general ideas on how to do it even without books and movie knowledge.

@KatherinWinter

Believe me, you have those general ideas from fiction and movie knowledge. xP Not everyone can be an actual cop, or actual detective. This is fiction. Criminals here, don't have to even bide by the same rules as real life...

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Friend came over due to drama in life. So I may be a little occupied.

Edit: Joy. And either fast food last night got me sick, or my allergies are kicking my ass again.

[SleepingSilence]

I just wanted to point out I am making progress. I finished the second half of my post first. I wanted to detail the northern city a bit, the place you entered and the people present. To give you some backdrop, but your also more than free to do it yourself. Otherwise, give me more time/maybe another day. (Because writing while ill, is quite the process.)

Edit: Posted. Kept brief, but should suffice.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I've noticed this three times in one page, so I wasn't sure if this was just a typo. (Which I've decided to leave alone for the most part.) But "at least" is two separate words.

Still sick, but working on the post to finish it, as we speak.

[KatherinWinter]

@SleepingSilence I know but my spellcheck doesnt. I'll fix it.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Apologies. I've been gone/afk most of Easter weekend, so I hadn't realized you had posted something until now. (Nor did the site show me that I had unread posts.) And today, I just helped my roommate move back in with me and I've been started participating in a month-long writing challenge. So, I guess you could say I've been occupied. But should be able to write something soon. Might get something quick done late tonight. (If I'm not doing something with my roommate. If so, I'll do it first thing in the morning.) so I don't keep you waiting longer.

Also, fire your phone's spellchecker. (if that's what you write on.) ;P I tease.

[KatherinWinter]

I was going to ask a whole bunch of questions because this makes no sense but I think I am just going to go with it.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I had changed my mind on the direction this was going.

But I do have a sincere questions regarding this. I'm going to be frank, hopefully it doesn't come across as too blunt.

Are you enjoying this roleplay? Like, do you actually want to do this?

If you feel like this particular story isn't going how you'd like. We can always start fresh with a different idea, or a new start. I'm not opposed to such. I wouldn't be offended if you'd preferred to try something else. I always wanted this to be an enjoyable experience for the both of us.

I didn't ever mean for my word lengths to be overwhelming. I certainly don't mind shorter posts or mistakes. But a lot of what you posted in IC, had multiple spelling errors or typos that seem like the post was rushed. You've stated so many times that you feel like you aren't pleased, whether with how you feel in comparison. Or more recently telling me that you think I wasn't acknowledging your contributions. Because from the very start and now, you questioned in OOC many times about my posts in particular. Without really providing alternatives scenarios.

I don't say anything as a personal complaint. I'm just uncertain that you're liking the roleplay. I don't want either of us to do this with no motivations, or if it feels like work opposed to entertainment.

[KatherinWinter]

I will be honest I don't know where this story is going. Every time I think I do it changes. You seem to have a very different idea of this world and how it works than I do. Sometimes I doubt that we can meet middle. I am not a planner. I prefer to allow my characters to write their own stories. While you have a set path that you want to follow. That set idea makes it hard for me to be as creative as I would like to. I don't feel like I am contributing much. And not just because of the limitations that come with using Liz. I knew using her was going to be difficult. But I hadn't thought it would be this hard. I like the story. I like Bastian. But honestly I don't feel like this is our story. I feel like I am following along. I apologize for the spelling and grammar errors. I haven't been rushed. I guess I just haven't been paying as much attention as I should. Sometimes I catch errors. Sometimes I don't. My mind tends to auto correct and I don't always see them. I am working on it so I appreciate you pointing them out. I don't think that starting over will fix any of the problems we have. We write differently. I am not going to bluntly tell you my ideas. I won't direct the story like that. Especially in a world I don't fully understand.