[OOC] The Savage And Subservient (SleepingSilence x KatherinWinter)

[SleepingSilence]

(Posting delay for obvious reasons, and having friends over.)

@KatherinWinter That's what I figured. It's unfortunate, because I really have been trying to avoid that. I guess the question is, would you like to start over again or do a new roleplay instead?

It seems like you need a more straight forward plot line. Maybe we can checklist and line up plot elements in preparation, so you never feel lost. I'm willing to put the effort in, to make that possible. If you wish to contribute more, but feel like you can't in the direction I'm taking the story.

I guess that's why I asked, if you prefer leading or following or mixing story lines. Usually it tends to go either/or, because otherwise unless you're very used to role-playing. It will get confusing. I'll admit, I'm adding a lot of things to the plot. If it feels convoluted because I'm trying to make the world live outside our characters, I didn't intend for such.

Because, I'll say you've kind of set yourself up and sort of put limitations on yourself for no real reason. You made a character that won't make decisions, won't speak up. Which in itself doesn't lead to IC, actions in changing the story.

And you don't usually add any outside character details, environments or otherwise. So you can't effect the IC world, if you don't try adding to its overall shape. You also don't/rarely want to work with NPC's I've created, but not for my sake. Because I wanted this to be both our story. You could easily change the direction through NPC action, character action, environmental IC action. But you say you don't want to. Which, you don't -have- to. But if not doing anything, makes you feel like you're not getting involved enough. Well, there's an relatively easy fix for that...

If you don't like a story element I'm doing, or want to add your own. Like I've said. I'm about as free-going in IC story building as possible. But if you don't like the feel of randomness or strange/odd coincidences or plot elements in your fantasy. Then my suggestion to start anew and make a step by step plotline layout is open to try. We can always come back to the story if we wanted to.

[KatherinWinter]

I don't think starting over will help. I am not sure if a new story would or not. My plots are very vague. When I created this plot the idea was to a Beastkind to lose their child (or family but child works best) and need a human to help them. The second character just needed to be human. I put slave in the description because it's a popular choice and I have a couple characters that can play that role. Everything else was up in the air. Generally the beast knows who took their kids. They have a trail to follow but Bastian doesn't which is fine. I can lead but I don't mind following if I understand the world. Ideal I prefer both parties to take turns but I know that isn't always possible so I try to do what seems best and most natural for my character. I don't mind you building a world. But many of the elements seem to have no role so it seems like a waste of time and effort. I put in a character that seemed to fit what you were looking for. I only have one female who can be described as subservient. Even without the slave limitations Liz's personality presents many challenges. She is shy so doesn't approach people she doesn't know. She has no confidence in herself. She is inexperienced. But one thing she does bring is that she will fight for others. But Bastian hasn't needed her only strength, besides healing. I add NPCs as needed. I only add as needed. Worldbuilding isn't something I have a lot of experience with. It isn't that I don't like what your doing. I just don't always understand where you are going with your post. If I don't understand what is wanted or needed it is hard to react. I don't expect you to control everything but I also don't want to take control since your character is leading mine.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I apologize for not directly @ mentioning you in posts, makes it take longer for you to realize you've been messaged.

When I created this plot the idea was to a Beastkind to lose their child and need a human to help them.

I put in a character that seemed to fit what you were looking for. Liz's personality presents many challenges. She is shy, has no confidence, inexperienced. But she will fight for others. But Bastian hasn't needed her only strength, besides healing.

@KatherinWinter

Even when we we were in the discussion phase of the story. I mentioned my character is a good fighter. The reason he needed a human plot-wise was certain sections/places had restrictions on Beastkind. Obviously needing someone resourceful, cunning or social to do what he couldn't do in those areas. So, I'm fine with the challenges Liz put into place. (Because I made my own IC challenges, in form of a curse. I also hoped that my character could help push your character out of some of those weaknesses. As I intended the same.) But you should be aware giving the antithesis of what he needed would lead to IC complications.

Her strength is fighting for others? How so exactly? She's already been in several situations were Bastian needed her to do something likely out of her comfort zone. Or times where standing up for injustice could have happened, but didn't.

We've established she doesn't actually know how to fight. When people attacked the horses at the stables, she really didn't say or do much. (granted it was a swift action.) She froze when confronted with people robbing Bastian's cart. Which again, was fine and made sense.

But she's hardworking, and was given one task that he required her for. (That was inevitable.) Going to this city which restricted Beastkind access. Then you told me in OOC, that action was impossible and couldn't be done by your character. The one action that very much required your character's help. Helk, even when Bastian was being too temperamental toward the stranger beastkind (your npc) Elizabeth could have been a bit assertive and persuasive in convincing Bastian to accept his help. Fighting for someone (verbally) that clearly needed it. But didn't, and she still behaved very passively and stayed out of the way.

Generally the beast knows who took their kids. They have a trail to follow but Bastian doesn't which is fine.

@KatherinWinter

My question would be, if you were a child-napper. The one with those kids in question is seemingly blood thirsty, fast and powerful. Would you attempt to take those child right in front of his face? Or when he was gone/away? And if away, would you be foolish enough to leave a note explaining who you were in great detail? Especially, in a world of magic. The fact that Bastian doesn't have all the answers. Not only is better for drama/story sake. But it just makes more rational sense to me, especially since that lack of information gives him the desire to seek help in the first place. But I digress.

He always had a trail. It just wasn't as straight forward. But we were at the point where I actually was going to give us that trail, but at the same time I wanted to introduce the romance aspect and push the curse further. (If/when we continue, you'll see.)

I can lead but I don't mind following if I understand the world. Ideal I prefer both parties to take turns but I know that isn't always possible.

@KatherinWinter

Here's the thing. I've purposely tried giving you several points that I left vague, in order for you to branch into your own world-building and designing your own scenarios and characters. Elizabeth going to the Northside by herself. In IC, it made sense for it to happen. The story was built for this, it wasn't random. And OOC, it gave you a perfect opportunity to craft the story how you wanted and change the story and move it to an unexpected direction. But you absolutely rejected the idea and seemed to completely give up on the idea without having an IC fix.

If you didn't think she could do the task given to her. Another option you had aside from talking to Bastian about it. Is to have something else happen instead. Have someone connected to my kidnappers somehow be here, and attempt to kidnap you too. It would force me in (OOC) to change the stories direction. And in IC, Bastian would reasonably go to a restricted area to rescue her. There's so much, in many parts of the story that you could have added something like that. But consciously decided against it.

I don't mind you building a world. But many of the elements seem to have no role so it seems like a waste of time and effort.

@KatherinWinter

Almost everything I've created has had purpose/builds the world. Here's things I've added thus far. (in simple terms.)

1. A long-time friend who has given Bastian the trail to find his kids, useful supplies and learning about the slave trade which he used to acquire you. (I also even gave a plot reason for him to be in that city, because he was babysitting his mad brother.)

2. A cursed item/necklace. (A character flaw, a way to progress through challenges and create problems, and plot related. Also possibly will add to romance.)

3. Assassin Guild (Plot/Character related. Pushed plot forward. Tied into the curse, his friend and my character's father. Can use tunnels in story for quicker access to far away areas.)

4. Character that changes face/appearances. (Gives an even stronger push against why "Bastian should just know his kidnappers on the spot." So only supports my case, and it also is an element in just about every magical fantasy story. So not exactly out of left field. Also was going to use this character to get concrete information on Bastian's kidnappers.)

5. An uprising between Beastkind versus humans? (Makes perfect logical sense given how the world seems racist and exclusionary. I'd argue based on history and how most fantasy stories tend to work out. It would be outright stupid for this not to be apart of the eventually plot. Even if only used a backdrop.)

What elements specifically feel like a waste to you? If you get into specifics, that may be more helpful. So I can rationalize them and we can come to an understanding...

Worldbuilding isn't something I have a lot of experience with. It isn't that I don't like what your doing. I just don't always understand where you are going with your post. If I don't understand what is wanted or needed, it is hard to react.

I don't expect you to control everything but I also don't want to take control since your character is leading mine.

@KatherinWinter

Well I didn't have problems with you not doing a lot of world building. I didn't have problems with a typo here and there. I've said plenty of times, if you add or contribute in a way that's going in a different direction. I'd be more than happy to follow along and work with it in IC. (at least how my character would react to it.) I'm easygoing and can pick up the slack and still try to make the story/RP an enjoyable experience.

The problem comes in, when I feel things are questioned. But not in any curious way, that just comes across as rebuking ideas without actually coming up with solutions or suggestions of one's own. Like telling me that you think less of the character, for not knowing his kidnappers. Which seems a touch cruel.

But if it was you, and if it was actually a criticism of how I built the story. I think I've done more than enough in IC/OOC to justify that position. And really, the only counter was "this is how it was done before." But it didn't tell me how similar the rest of the story was, and why it would make sense for him to know his kidnappers with detailed information. Yet despite having such a wealth of information, not have already stopped them/be in hot pursuit and have the time/thought to randomly grab an inexperienced slave to assist him?

Or when I was told that you didn't think I was reading or properly reacting/acknowledging your posts. So that implies, I'm at fault for something. (Which I'm fine with concerns or mistakes, but they need to be well explained.)

But I was essentially accused of not putting in the basic effort required to roleplay. By not reading your posts carefully enough. Which also implied that you were reading your posts. But when my thought is, "Actually, I am putting in effort to reading the posts enough to notice all these grammatical/spelling mistakes." So, it feels like a kick in the teeth when I'm being told I'm not putting in basic effort to read the posts, when I question if they're being reread. Because if they were, I figured some of these mistakes would be edited out.

I hope you understand why/how I'm concerned in this roleplay. I want to know that we're both putting effort into this, because were enjoying ourselves. If you have something holding you back. I want to eliminate those barriers. So far, it really seems like you've had trouble going along with an introduced plot element that hasn't been outright explained. Which is why I suggested a less vague and focused/detailed narrative that has most the plot laid out. And, if it helps. I probably have an answer for just about every question you may have...if you want to know before it happens in IC. You've asked before, and are free to ask again.

[KatherinWinter]

I don't agree that it was obvious that your character would need someone resourceful and cunning. Especially with a title like the savage and the subservient. You can't have it both ways. I have a female who is cunning but she wouldn't have been a slave. Although I might have been able to make her one. I have a woman who is social but again not a slave. Getting into places that the Beastkind can't doesn't require any special skills. I assumed, wrongly, that she would be getting supplies or gathering information from specific people.

Liz's strength is fighting for others but he hasn't needed her to do that. At the stables she was prepared to defend the horses even though she isn't a fighter. She had even grabbed the arm of the mage closest to her. There was no clear threat when Bastian's wagon was moved.

Going into the city alone would have been hard but doable. That wasn't the problem. The problem was that she was expected to something I had no logical way for her to do. He didn't say go to this person and ask these questions. Instead he sent her into a gambling hall to find someone with a bounty on their head. Finding someone like the Blade Beauty isn't as simple as finding a butcher or even a boundy hunter. Someone with the reputation of the Bladed Beauty isn't going to be easy to find nor is asking usual "How do I find such and such" going to work. Once I had a way for Liz to search for the Bladed Beauty that made sense given the reputation of the woman I would have done so without an issue. But in the situation described not even my criminal character would have been able to do what Bastian wanted.

My beastkind didn't need help. He was offering help. There was no reason to fight for my beastkind. He didn't need Bastian. He wasn't asking for their help. He simply wanted to offer his aid.

I didn't expect the kidnappers to take the kids in front of the Beastkind. However there are usually reasons that people get targeted for kidnapping which would give the Beastkind leads. Were they taken for revenge? That tells him where to look. Were they take for money? That tells him where they might go. Depending how much time has passed since his kids were taken he could pick up their trail using his sense of smell. Right now he seems to have nothing.

I would have taken control of the northside when Liz went off alone IF I had some clue how this world works. But things that seem logical to me don't seem to work in the world you are building. Taking control means understanding the world. I don't understand the world we are in. Liz was a slave. In ever book I've read that comes with restrictions as well as a way for others to identify them. I will not change the course of the story. I hate when people do that. Especially when I have a clear goal. You seem to have a road map you want them to follow. So I am following that.

1. Bastian's long term friend didn't give them anything. Atleast not much. Not enough to make him an influential part of the story. They could have gotten that information anywhere.

2. I am undecided how this curse will affect the plot or the relationship. I don't fully understand it yet.

3. You don't need an assassin's guild to have tunnels. But I can see how the tunnels cut the travel time down. I have no problem with that.

4. If Bastian's kids were taken for revenge he would know who took them. If they were taken for money he would know where the kidnappers were likely to go. He would also know them because he should have their scent. Especially if his kids were taken from his home.

5. The uprising makes sense but I doubt it will have much of an impact on the story sense Bastian doesn't care one way or the other.

Whenever I do this plot the Beastkind has a suspect. Bastian doesn't have to know exactly who took his kids. But he seems to have no suspects. He is going off of rumors. That is a terrible way to try to find someone especially in a world like this one. When I question something it is because I am not sure I understand what is wanted or needed. I want a clearer understanding of what is happening so that my character can react. I don't mean to come across as critical but I can't always follow your train of thought.

I don't think you are picking up my ideas. And I admit they are subtle. Maybe too subtle. I don't like pushing the plot. Especially when I am not sure that my idea will help or hurt. I don't like it when people push the story away from the main goal of the plot. Especially when the character is suppose to be SUBMISSIVE to the other character.

[SleepingSilence]

I don't agree that it was obvious that your character would need someone resourceful and cunning. Especially with a title like the savage and the subservient. You can't have it both ways. I have a female who is cunning but she wouldn't have been a slave. Although I might have been able to make her one. I have a woman who is social but again not a slave.

@KatherinWinter

Assuming our characters have to follow a strict and linear path based on the title that already has a additional explanation given in IC to describe the inhabitants of the world in a general matter. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Even so, Bastian has clearly shown to be someone to rush into things and his impulsivity is the antithesis of thoughtful planning. It don't think you need someone book smart, and maybe someone in a cell wouldn't be well traveled or knowledgeable about the world. And you don't lie.

It does me question what she did do while imprisoned...she had to have done or learned something that would be useful right? Like pickpocketing, or picking a lock. Yes, having brains to go with brawn, and someone who can make rational plans would be immensely useful...

Liz's strength is fighting for others but he hasn't needed her to do that. At the stables she was prepared to defend the horses even though she isn't a fighter. She had even grabbed the arm of the mage closest to her. There was no clear threat when Bastian's wagon was moved.

@KatherinWinter

I misremembered that scene. You're correct. Though, that still shows that I most certainly have given you chances for you and her character to shine or stand out.

Going into the city alone would have been hard but doable. That wasn't the problem. The problem was that she was expected to something I had no logical way for her to do. He didn't say go to this person and ask these questions. Instead he sent her into a gambling hall to find someone with a bounty on their head. Finding someone like the Blade Beauty isn't as simple as finding a butcher or even a boundy hunter. Someone with the reputation of the Bladed Beauty isn't going to be easy to find nor is asking usual "How do I find such and such" going to work. Once I had a way for Liz to search for the Bladed Beauty that made sense given the reputation of the woman I would have done so without an issue. But in the situation described not even my criminal character would have been able to do what Bastian wanted.

Liz was a slave. In ever book I've read that comes with restrictions as well as a way for others to identify them.

@KatherinWinter

Nothing is undoable in a fantasy story/setting. Let's make that clear.

Not every action characters do need to pay off in their favor. Maybe characters will make bad decisions and pay for them. But the only problem is if it was out of character for either to do what they did. And it wasn't. So there is no problem with Bastian hoping that his partner could do the unthinkable.

But practically, his assumption was you'd not only be safer in the northern side of town. (Not a completely incorrect/out of place thing to do, for him to have you go to where he thinks is safer.) So even if you debate, could she have done what she was sent to do at the northside. There's literally already an additional benefit for her to go there. (In Bastian's eyes.)

Remember again, in dialogue. She is NOT well known, she's known by her rare clientele. She's basically known more, in this city by the people and nowhere else.

But disregarding that, you yourself are on their side. A criminal in a place full of criminals. You're acting like she'd stand out because of her criminal necklace. But she's going to an illegal gambling ring. She's in good company. She also has the whole beastkind uprising that the humans in the city are now protesting in the streets together for such purposes.

My beastkind didn't need help. He was offering help. There was no reason to fight for my beastkind. He didn't need Bastian. He wasn't asking for their help. He simply wanted to offer his aid.

@KatherinWinter

You are thinking from an out of character prospective, not Elizabeth's. Yes, that beastkind offered help. Though intruding and being sly wasn't the best way to approach someone who just a bit ago got thrown down a waterfall by another suspicions aid. (who again, he couldn't merely turn back.)

Though if he also was troubled and in a similar situation I can't imagine he didn't also need or want allies/reinforcements. So it would be bizarre for a kindred spirit to not need any help of his own, but give up and permanently do so when he knows kids lives are on the line. (and he'd have to assume Bastian is just a worried parent.)

So disregarding questioning that characters morals and actions. Elizabeth didn't have a trust issue with your beastkind. She promised to help Bastian, she wanted to help Bastian. She obviously knows of the danger, knows Bastian's reckless and wants to be freed. So Elizabeth has every reason to convince Bastian to have him cool off a little and accept the help. Saying you didn't see a reason why Elizabeth should since it's Bastian's screw up (not mine mind you, he acted perfectably in character) Seems more petty than Elizabeth actually seems to be.

I didn't expect the kidnappers to take the kids in front of the Beastkind. However there are usually reasons that people get targeted for kidnapping which would give the Beastkind leads. Were they taken for revenge? That tells him where to look. Were they take for money? That tells him where they might go. Depending how much time has passed since his kids were taken he could pick up their trail using his sense of smell. Right now he seems to have nothing.

@KatherinWinter

He already was able to assume to wasn't for money, because no evidence and note was left. Nor had he been contacted. I've already described this in IC. It would only give him answers for revenge if he had a clue who wanted vengeance on him.

And for the record, his kids are being kidnapped for reasons that have nothing to do with him. But his father. (he's kind of important, hence why I bring him up multiple times. 3 times is a pattern kind of deal.) But he doesn't know that, and it makes no sense for him to have answers in this case.

He had a lead given to him from his friend, that lead him to the city that had another lead that will actually have the names of the kidnapping victims. Frankly, in a magical world with all that can happen. He's actually making pretty decent progress all things concerned. Even if it is, favorable luck and unfortunate circumstances. (which is kind of the curse in a nutshell.)

I would have taken control of the northside when Liz went off alone IF I had some clue how this world works. But things that seem logical to me don't seem to work in the world you are building.

@KatherinWinter

We are both supposed to be building the world. That is the point. We agreed upon doing this before we started.

I will not change the course of the story. I hate when people do that. Especially when I have a clear goal.

You seem to have a road map you want them to follow. So I am following that.

I don't think you are picking up my ideas. And I admit they are subtle. Maybe too subtle. I don't like pushing the plot. Especially when I am not sure that my idea will help or hurt. I don't like it when people push the story away from the main goal of the plot.

@KatherinWinter

The red and blue statements are in conflict. You don't want to change the story because you don't like that. You don't want to introduce ideas because you're aren't sure if they'll work. BUT. I'm the problem, if I cannot somehow go in a direction you yourself claim you aren't making on purpose. So what else can I reasonably do?

If you don't want to push the plot, in general. I would have been fine just doing the story/plot myself so you wouldn't have needed to worry about it.

But my biggest contention is I'm confused on all the questioning of my character and story (like it's connected to me personally.) Like seemingly getting insulted by Bastian's actions toward your NPC character. Throwing that idea, like a baby with the bathwater. Because Bastian who was already -not- in a good mood. Was grumpy because a second stranger acted suspicious and interrupted their journey. You have not provided a single world element, character, or detail that I haven't acknowledged in IC.

Especially when the character is suppose to be SUBMISSIVE to the other character.

@KatherinWinter

I'm sorry but I already explained why this is a cop-out. You can still control the story without using Elizabeth to do it. You could add drama through environment or characters.

While I'm at it, "suppose" to. Doesn't even mean you "need" to. Does any real human/character do things without a hint of protest or defiance? But that doesn't need to be answered, because it isn't relevant. (like the character's role in the story has anything to do with how a world/plot can shape.)

1. Bastian's long term friend didn't give them anything. At least not much. Not enough to make him an influential part of the story. They could have gotten that information anywhere.

@KatherinWinter

He not only gave him the single piece of information that allowed him to continue the journey. (he gave Bastian his first real lead.) He gave him information regarding the slave trade, that got him interested in going to you. (So he's the reason your character and mine were introduced. And he gave Bastian the money to pay for Elizabeth too.) He has given us a second horse, a bigger wagon and many extra supplies. (some of those can/may just come up later.) He isn't the only connection they have to the assassin guild's. But Bastian's thinks that's the reason they've helped and will continue to help him. So for a character impaled and killed quite quickly, he was pretty darn helpful.

2. I am undecided how this curse will affect the plot or the relationship. I don't fully understand it yet.

@KatherinWinter

One thing I was considering introducing was, you being able to calm Bastian down exceedingly fast and enable him to better control his curse. Through affectionate action and words. This makes sense because, A. Bastian has dead wife problems and you look just his wife. B. When you kissed, Bastian felt something special. (Bastian is clearly bashful/comfortable around her too.) But wasn't going to bring it up yet, since it was an odd circumstance. C. It is a romance story, and Beauty and the Beast is a nice parallel. D. Adding another reason why he picked you, and how they'll both need each other in the story/plot.

3. You don't need an assassin's guild to have tunnels. But I can see how the tunnels cut the travel time down. I have no problem with that.

@KatherinWinter

But the assassin guild is connected to his father and the curse and the kidnappings. So it's plot relevant, and it was clearly foreshadowed that, that wasn't the last time they'd be seeing the guild in the story. But out of all the places, to assist kidnapping (that's bigger than he is aware.) Also, while fast travel could have been done in other ways. Since I had more planned. It just makes more sense that out of any place to have widespread underground tunnels, would be a place with powerful influence.

5. The uprising makes sense but I doubt it will have much of an impact on the story sense Bastian doesn't care one way or the other.

@KatherinWinter

This was something I didn't plan on really expanding too deeply into. This was purely for world building and gives a sense that going anywhere unfamiliar will likely be a rather dangerous place. But it also isn't wrong to have a world that lives outside your characters interactions.

Whenever I do this plot the Beastkind has a suspect. Bastian doesn't have to know exactly who took his kids. But he seems to have no suspects. He is going off of rumors. That is a terrible way to try to find someone especially in a world like this one. When I question something it is because I am not sure I understand what is wanted or needed. I want a clearer understanding of what is happening so that my character can react. I don't mean to come across as critical but I can't always follow your train of thought.

@KatherinWinter

Bastian was given a lead by his friend. He knows this Bladed Beauty lady has connections with his kidnappers, she's done work for her rare clientele which also gives her more likability to remember and know more information about the kidnappers, and he figures correctly that she's in her home city, where she's safe. (and as you can now tell.) Is kind of trapped at, due to the massive mob of uprising Beastkind at the entrance. Bastian doesn't know why or who took his kids, because that was the intention of the criminals. They do not even want Bastian at all. He doesn't factor into any of his enemies plans. They wanted the kids. (At least that was the direction I intended to go.)

I apologize if I come across in a negative way. I understand that I haven't explained much. I figured like most stories, information would be shown in IC. In due time. I can understand now that you'd prefer me to give you a detailed explanation OOC before moving forward in IC. So you can more easily follow along and I'd hope give you confidence to contribute to the story itself?

So, I also apologize the long stall of this roleplay. If you wish for me to continue by starting off with an explanation of what my next several post intend to accomplish. I can post such things and continue the roleplay. And get back to posting in IC more regularly.

[KatherinWinter]

Sorry about the delay. This took a long time to write.

I have five solid characters. I always use the one the best fits the role described in the plot. The fact that you wanted the second character to be subservient limited my choices. Yes I could have pushed for a different character but I chose not to. I rarely do because I have a character for each role.

Yes Bastian rushes into things but that specifically mean that he needs someone who is capable of planning, well traveled or knowledgeable about the world. Even if my character was all those things there is no reason for Bastian to listen to her.

Liz pretty much sat and watched people while she was Liz isn't a criminal. Not everyone who goes to jail is a criminal. She could have learned lots of things if she had chosen to do so but I saw no reason for someone like Liz to learn those skills.

No I suppose that not every action that they take has to pay off. I don't mind failure. It can help people grow. If you want Liz to fail I have no problem with that. But this seems like an odd time and place.

Liz and I both agree that she is probably safer in gambling establishment. But it still doesn't tell me how she is supposed to find this person. Even if the Bladed Beauty isn't well know, which I seriously doubt from your description, she is know enough that she would have a bounty on her head. Which means she isn't going to be visible. Liz might look like she belongs but she really doesn't and she knows it.

Actually I was talking about Liz's point of view. My beastkind never asked for their help. In fact he clearly stated that he wasn't there to get aid. Yes I could have had her push more for my beastkind to give them information. But from Liz's point of view Bastian wasn't going to be willing to listen and my beastkind didn't seem to need them so it would have been a waste of time they couldn't afford.

My beastkind is alot like Bastian. He doesn't trust easily. He has a good idea of who has taken his son and where they are headed. He thought he could help someone who didn't seem to have those answers. But he wasn't going push. Either Bastian wanted to hear why he thought he could help or he didn't. It didn't change my beastkind plan one way or another. I don't see them crossing paths again but we will see.

I don't know what makes you think that Liz knows the danger. I don't so I don't see how she could. Nor does she see him as reckless. She has known him only about a week. While not all his actions make sense to Liz she thinks that has more to do with her lack of knowledge than anything on Bastian's part. She thinks he is a skilled and experienced hunter.

The fact that he doesn't know why his kids were taken confuses me. He has no suspects or leads. He is basically running around hoping to find a clue. For all he knows he is going the wrong way. Once the trail goes cold he won't be able to find his kids.

Oddly Bastian's father being linked to his father really does connect him to my Beastkind. My Beastkind is sure his father, who is also linked to the assassin's guild has taken his son.

I assumed that Bastian was from the city where he got Liz. I assumed that he had some clues to follow about who had his children or where they went. I assumed he knew about the slave market and decided that he needed a human to go where he couldn't (again based of me playing the Beastkind.) I think I should have clarified alot more before picking my character but I don't like planning everything before starting.

I suppose that the two statements do sort of conflict. When I am playing the second character I don't like to take control of the story nor do I like adding things unless I think they can help the plot or character development. I haven't seen many opportunities for either yet. And I know that is as much my fault as yours.

I am sorry if you take my questions as an insult. They aren't meant that way. I am trying to follow your train of thought. Which because I hate it when my partner takes the story in a directions I didn't intend to go. It is one of the reasons I hesitate to add things. I don't want to take away from Bastian's story.

I don't want to control the story. Nor do I have any idea how to do so in this world. None of the things I think exist or will happen don't. I until I have a clear understanding of this world I am not going to control it.

Liz is a pushover. Is one of the few people who will do almost anything without protest or defiance. She rarely hesitates more than a minute or two.

<Snipped quote by KatherinWinter>
Yes Bastian's friend gave him money but as a hunter he could have gotten that anywhere. The rest I agree with.

<Snipped quote by KatherinWinter>

Eventually Liz might be able to calm him down but I really haven't seen a need for her to do so. She did try to caution him in the tunnels but he acted like he knew exactly what was happening so she backed off.

<Snipped quote by KatherinWinter>

I am willing to see how the assassin's guild plays a role later. Right now I see them as nothing but a way to cut travel time.

<Snipped quote by KatherinWinter>

If you aren't intending to use the conflict to progress the story or build character it's just background noise that adds to the confusion. Which is fine if you want to a unneeded drama.

<Snipped quote by KatherinWinter>

Do you mean Bastian or his friend knows the Bladed beauty has connections to the kidnappers? Honestly I don't see how either is possible. Bastian is clueless as to who has them or why they were taken. His friend might have knows the assassin's guild was involved but seemed to have no other information.

[SleepingSilence]

Sorry about the delay. This took a long time to write.

@KatherinWinter

It's not a problem at all. I'm glad you've been discussing this with me. I appreciate the time given. Hopefully after I'm done reading the post, we can come to a resolution for this.

The fact that you wanted the second character to be subservient limited my choices. Yes I could have pushed for a different character but I chose not to.

@KatherinWinter

Okay. One of the problems I've been having that's lead me to have a bit of hesitation is the idea I'm causing something (when I'm really not.) Even if it's a simple misunderstanding, and I'm sure it is. But that just happens to be a pet peeve.

You're again basing the idea that your character needed to be subservient because of the title. But as I already noted, that title didn't refer to the main characters but was a motto describing the typical structure of society, particularly in that city (and elsewhere.)

But I also want to add, that we both picked our character's personality traits before I ever created the title. It is 100% not my issue that you created a very shy and submissive character. The plot you created was about a beast and a slave, and we both (by our own nature) selected the typical traits you'd expect those archetypes to have. You being shy is solely your creation and it's becoming your own problem, that I wish wouldn't be shifted onto me. (even if inadvertently.)

If we want to combat her extreme submissive behavior in IC, that's fine. I plan to do that with my characters impulsive and rash behavior. It very soon will bite him in the ass...

He needs someone who is capable of planning, well traveled or knowledgeable about the world. Even if my character was all those things there is no reason for Bastian to listen to her.

@KatherinWinter

Well you wouldn't know, if you never try. And just maybe his soft spot for you would give you more control over his decision than she thinks. And my character may be unself-critical. So you're right that simply telling him, he's wrong when he's making an error, probably won't work. But, you still can make different plans or provide suggestions.

He sought help after all. He must be at least partially aware of his own limitations. A man can only be so stupid or stubborn, and Bastian really isn't either of those things.

She could have learned lots of things if she had chosen to do so, but I saw no reason for someone like Liz to learn those skills.

@KatherinWinter

That I just don't understand. Like I don't want to say what your character can and can't do, it's your character. But the way you rationalized that to me, doesn't add up. If Liz didn't learn literally anything in prison. (Doesn't matter if a criminal or not. She'd still adapt to survive, she's a human and that's what they do.)

Now, you could make it that she tried to learn many things but wasn't good at them. Or her conditions were particularly comfortable or poor that she couldn't have learned such things/didn't feel pressured to do such things.

But the way you describe your background scenario is. "Yeah, in prison Liz could have learned to do many things that would have improved her life inside the prison, so anyone hardworking like her would of course learn/do it. But I (as the creator) didn't want her character to grow in that environment."

...Why? You don't even provide a reason why a hardworking girl, who didn't commit a crime. So not like she was plagued with guilt. If she could have gotten smarter, stronger and more criminally and social adaptive in prison...why didn't she? The best answer I can provide with no context, is so ended up in comatose or such a state of shock. She actually didn't do those things, but then realistically you couldn't say "she could do this" if she wasn't mentally stable enough...

No I suppose that not every action that they take has to pay off. I don't mind failure. It can help people grow. If you want Liz to fail I have no problem with that. But this seems like an odd time and place.

@KatherinWinter

This is the first time he's ever done something like this, or your character for that matter. I think it's not only perfectly reasonable to be the time they screw something up...

And this is the point where he's at his last chance to get any new information. Like most points in the story thus far, he hasn't really had another/better choice. So him being unfamiliar with not only, who he's up against, what he needs to do and even the state of world and the stability of its citizenry. I think he's lack of knowledge should come with a reasonable cost...

Liz and I both agree that she is probably safer in gambling establishment. But it still doesn't tell me how she is supposed to find this person. Even if the Bladed Beauty isn't well know, which I seriously doubt from your description, she is know enough that she would have a bounty on her head. Which means she isn't going to be visible. Liz might look like she belongs but she really doesn't and she knows it.

@KatherinWinter

My changes, have already put some of this into account. So you'll see, in quite a flash what I intended for the direction to go. I also intended the pace to slow down, after this. So we could possibly build on character and romance. Since we haven't had nearly any character building stuff.

Actually I was talking about Liz's point of view. My beastkind never asked for their help. In fact he clearly stated that he wasn't there to get aid. Yes I could have had her push more for my beastkind to give them information. But from Liz's point of view Bastian wasn't going to be willing to listen and my beastkind didn't seem to need them so it would have been a waste of time they couldn't afford.

My beastkind is alot like Bastian. He doesn't trust easily. He has a good idea of who has taken his son and where they are headed. He thought he could help someone who didn't seem to have those answers. But he wasn't going push. Either Bastian wanted to hear why he thought he could help or he didn't. It didn't change my beastkind plan one way or another. I don't see them crossing paths again but we will see.

@KatherinWinter

I'm okay with how that scene turned out overall. I just want to make sure you understand it was within character. I guess the idea the Beastkind, being so confident with information but not wanting to push it. Feels off. Because if he was a kindred spirit, and doing this out of genuine kindness. I feel like you'd push past the father, because kids lives are at stake. He was being an asshole, but he hadn't actually done anything to him yet. So it's not like his life was in danger. He didn't even really try talking him down that much.

So, if he really was going to waffle/turn over that quickly. Why would he insist on coming with them, when he made a similar threat not to approach and go in their ride when he did the same thing. Was he working on a three strike rule? I'm fine with not knowing the answer. I can reasonably understand all sides involved.

I don't know what makes you think that Liz knows the danger. I don't so, I don't see how she could. Nor does she see him as reckless. She has known him only about a week.

@KatherinWinter

This is just a little silly. She wouldn't know the danger? How much danger has to be around her before she understands that? Bastian even warned her plenty of times. And even if she thinks Bastian is capable and experienced. She's already had her life threatened in his pursuits, when he wasn't around to protect her.

He may even be naive to knowing just how big the danger is. But not knowing about the danger, specifically in the city in question. When she saw the dead body and fight with someone's head being smashed in. (when in contrast, the other city had a few drunk people throwing rocks at horses.)

I think, you'd need to be blind, deaf and dumb to not have the danger switch light on in this particular city...(or when you're told that you're going after people who kidnapped children. Not exactly a walk in the park.)

The fact that he doesn't know why his kids were taken confuses me. He has no suspects or leads. He is basically running around hoping to find a clue. For all he knows he is going the wrong way. Once the trail goes cold he won't be able to find his kids.

I assumed that Bastian was from the city where he got Liz. I assumed that he had some clues to follow about who had his children or where they went. I assumed he knew about the slave market and decided that he needed a human to go where he couldn't.

@KatherinWinter

The bladed beauty still is/was the lead. I've said that many times now. He is not just wandering aimlessly, he's work was only to aid him in getting more information. Unfortunately for him, his lead didn't have much known about them and had the ability to change many things about themselves.

I never really made clear where he lived. So I can understand that discrepancy. But Bastian certainly seemed oblivious in the beginning about the slave trade happening there. So if it's frequent and routine, it could also show he doesn't know a lot about where he grew up. Or that he didn't live there. Why was he there if he didn't? Well the whole friend was important to the plot thing, again goes hand in hand.

I haven't seen many opportunities for either yet. And I know that is as much my fault as yours.

@KatherinWinter

But is it? I don't wish to say I'm blameless. But I've done several things to outright push you into changing or adding your own elements to the story. But you didn't. Or rather chose not too.

I think you choosing to never change the plot, because you've said/implied many times that you won't/don't do these things...

So I cannot for the life of me, figure how that is even remotely my fault in anyway...

I am sorry if you take my questions as an insult. They aren't meant that way. I am trying to follow your train of thought. Which because I hate it when my partner takes the story in a directions I didn't intend to go. It is one of the reasons I hesitate to add things. I don't want to take away from Bastian's story.

I don't want to control the story. Nor do I have any idea how to do so in this world. None of the things I think exist or will happen don't. I until I have a clear understanding of this world I am not going to control it.

@KatherinWinter

I understand that the current explanation, as far as I'm aware. Goes like this...

"Well you've sort of made the lead/story up yourself, regarding the first lead, transport and the destination, which makes sense because it's your character's quest. So you having/using that information makes perfect sense in IC. However, since you have the lead at this current moment. I don't want to add any details or anything at all that might, possibly, come into conflict with ideas you (may or may not) have. So because of how we both chose to set the story up. I'm feeling unsatisfied, because the character I made can't really do much to effect the story. And I'm confused about certain plot elements, that I cannot reasonably asked to be clarified in IC or OOC. But the story that's been introduced by you, I will make no effort to mesh or fit any additional narrative in. Because it will make the story more difficult to follow?"

Is that where we're at? Because if the problem is "I won't attempt to go with the flow and help with the story/roleplay, because plot." I'm more than happy to change that plot...

I don't want you to think even for a second that anything I'm doing is making this unpleasant for you. Because I have no fun, if you aren't...

If you generally really don't like creating complicated and spun narratives for roleplaying, but want to do this. I can always (like I said.) Immediately explain what I'm doing in a scene and how/what will happen in them. I feel it kind of ruins the mystery and the unknown that's suppose to be in roleplaying, but I can do it. If it makes you more comfortable.

Or, if your lost and want to know if something will work. Literally just ask ahead of time, instead of "subtle hints" that I will still point out I've acknowledged every single one of. Just say "hey, I wanted to do this." or "Hey, what did you want to happen here?" Almost every answer you choose, I can make a right answer in roleplaying.

I'm fine if you aren't that flexible, but you have to pick if you actually want control of the story direction and the responsibility that comes with it. Or not. It's not just Bastian's story.

You don't need to take away from Bastian's story. Introduce something that makes it Elizabeth's story too. (I plan on making her a lot more crucial for Bastian, with like I hinted at. It's up to her to keep his curse at bay.)

Yes, Bastian's friend gave him money but as a hunter he could have gotten that anywhere. The rest I agree with.

@KatherinWinter

Yes, but you also asked from the very beginning. "Why did Bastian do a random odd job, when his kids are missing?" Aside from the obvious of, he needs a place to eat and stay too. It also was back payment for the information he had been receiving, he had been doing a lot of work for his friend. Because he'd be even more lost without his information. He didn't have time to just do any old work for money. And money wasn't the only thing Bastian was receiving when he was helping his friend with those contracts.

Eventually Liz might be able to calm him down but I really haven't seen a need for her to do so. She did try to caution him in the tunnels but he acted like he knew exactly what was happening so she backed off.

@KatherinWinter

Don't worry. If this continues, you'll very soon see why he needs to control his curse when it goes out of control...(Though even then, she's seen what happens when he pushes too far and his rage. I'd expect she'd want to calm him down, for her own safety in general.)

Here's another point of contention and confusion that I guess my explanations weren't clear enough about. The tunnels. You pointed out, and said I might not have paid attention to what you said. Because Elizabeth warned Bastian about the oddness of the situation and distrusted the girl's "help". And you further pointed out. "Why did Bastian deny my beastkind's help? When he just did what the girl said?"

This was clearly shown. Bastian also didn't trust the girl and responded to Elizabeth's concerns. But the exit was blocked off. He literally had no other choice. And his stuff was gone, so he had incentive to get it back. But he had the choice when it came to the other beastkind. (And he really wasn't pushed to show what would happen if he denied the help.) If the exit wasn't blocked off, he might have very well went back up those steps...

I've cleared up this point of confusion before, like many other times that I still feel, you still feel that somehow something was done out of spite...(or even just went unexplained, like a plot hole.) When it's clear what drove these actions...(least to me.)

If you aren't intending to use the conflict to progress the story or build character it's just background noise that adds to the confusion. Which is fine if you want to a unneeded drama.

@KatherinWinter

I guess it's on the eye of the beholder. Yes, it's background information. But it's not useless or purposeless. It shows a blueprint and likely pattern of how every place they go will not meet their expectations and be filled with danger...you think an uprising like this would merely be contained to a single city? Well if the characters think that, I plan to give them a rude awakening...

It's not remotely confusing when it's something that would be dead-end obvious to occur in a story like this. If you argue it didn't need to be included. It kind of did at this time, because it directly involved our characters into the plot and it's something that tends to put pressure on the both of them. I wanted no place to feel safe for the characters.

Claiming it's unneeded drama, either needs the war to A. Not be related to our characters and allow them to grow from it. (When I intend the opposite to happen.) B. Be toothless, in the sense that it will never actually endanger our heroes. Like if I brought up a war happening in a place that we never ended up going or something.

Do you mean Bastian or his friend knows the Bladed beauty has connections to the kidnappers? Honestly I don't see how either is possible. Bastian is clueless as to who has them or why they were taken. His friend might have knows the assassin's guild was involved but seemed to have no other information.

@KatherinWinter

His friend knew that, and Bastian doing work for his friend. Gave him the same information, he also was given character descriptions/sketches based on the last times she was seen or spoken about. But her pictures and those details are useless, for obvious reasons.

You wouldn't understand why an assassin's guild would have reasons/a purpose to seek information regarding a criminal who change change appearances? Or do you just don't see his friend as competent enough to get that information on his own? (The later, might even be right. So that begs the question, who did give the friend the information and do they know more than they're letting on?)

The friend was apart of the assassin's guild. I'm certain I said this before. (even the IC hints at that.) But you seem unaware of that? So making that clear.

---

So, what I was going to do for my next post involved the woman who challenged you to explain herself. That she knew who you were with. Spies had been keeping an eye on the gates. The reason it's a ghost town up north is because all the nobles abandoned the area, evacuating to safety to another town, before war strikes. They've also already stopped the poisonings because they've put a great amount of focus and effort into doing so. And have reinforcements from that town coming here. The beastkind rebels are unfamiliar with this town, most invaded here not so long ago, and they will use that to their advantage. So a huge group of the beastkind rebellion gets crushed and they believe the rebellion in general will get squashed before it's even started.

So, she knows that Liz and Bastian are strangers. And aren't part of the rebellion, the spies seeing Bastian helping the civilian being attacked. The challenge she places on you, assuming you seek information. Is giving you answers to help you. Since she herself had a troubled past, and that she always wanted to help people that have had unfortunate circumstances. So if you'd win, an answer wouldn't be hard to give. She'd lose nothing sharing such things. But if you'd lose. She'd request you and Bastian join in their efforts against the rebellion. She'd point out the human cowards standing at the gates, being used by the rebellion. Saying that "if humans will join a cause that actively wants their way of life destroyed. We can use more reasonable beastkind to retain the status quo."

This is where, Bastian comes in assuming from the information given to him. (he was right, he was being used as bait. Just not how he pictured it.) Whose already been purposely using the curse and is using it. He happens to see the poker playing woman's necklace. Which smells just like his daughter, it's crafted by him and its one of a kind. This infuriates Bastian and he violently grabs her, and demands answers. The surrounded others try to stop him, these is where all the lights in the city go out from seals that cast darkness...which were able to stay hidden because of their efforts were too focused to stop the poisonings. And humans inside, the mobs outside and the oncoming reinforcements can't see, but the beastkind rebellion most certainly can...

Bastian tears these people apart, which I can do before or after the lights go out depending how gory you or I want it to be. Bastian's fury and curse will get the better of him and he beat the hell out of her to near death. When she's revealed to not actually be the bladed beauty but her sister. The bladed beauty is the plain maiden in white. She declares that she doesn't actually help any real criminals but ones falsely accused, and she wasn't actually aware that these were real kidnappers. She was paid in his daughter's jewelry. But she know there's names and locations, because she does follow up research on all her client. Because he's killed her friends and pissed her off, also claiming that she wouldn't feel safe giving you the information. If Bastian was just going to kill them after he got it.

Bastian (who at this point will act completely different, which may give another clue that the fact the curse is fricking talking to him that something more may be going on.) will decide that if he can't get them to speak through words. He'll start savagely torturing them, and he does. He'll get the two names of the people who kidnapped his children, but before she can even disclose the locations. His anger will have already killed her by then...and that's when the curse ends.

However, Elizabeth wants to try to solve this situation. I don't know, to be fair if it becomes dark for most of it. (The bladed beauty may have a personal light spell scroll or something in handy. Just so Elizabeth can actually see...) I wanted to introduce a part where you could spend taking care of Bastian who ruined himself in that fit of rage. And maybe use romance, as a way to remind him of his wife and better times, as a way to calm him down.

Make sense? Need any further clarification? And like it? Thoughts?

[KatherinWinter]

I am not going to argue with you. I am almost sure that you either the title of the pm, which I deleted, or something in our discussion before we started indicated that you were looking for someone subservient. I was hesitant to used Liz and I know I expressed that. But you're right that was my choice. While it might not seem like it I don't blame you for the struggles I am having with using her in this RP. Actually I do know that Bastian won't listen to Liz. While she hasn't tried much she has tried twice. I agree that she didn't push as hard as she could have but that was because of limits that have been removed so maybe next time will go better. I 6019183434312138 assumed Bastian sought help because beastkind couldn't go some places. Not because he was aware of his own limitations. Yes Liz literally did 6044100582979241nothing. I think another problem we are having is how we envision the world. We probably should have discussed this more or I should have included more information. I am never sure where to put this information so it comes out coming out at the wrong time. Slavery is well known and accepted in this world. Slaves are criminals. Light crimes like pickpocketing get worked off in a year. More serious crimes have longer sentences. Criminals are marked. This is to make sure they can't just take off while serving their time. The marking is strong magic that only a few mages can do. Again to keep the criminals from simply taking off. Most slave are only in the cells of the slavers a few days. Slaves are in high demand so they tend to go quickly. Liz kind of went unnoticed until Bastian. And you're right she probably learned a few things just by watching the others but she had never used those skills so I doubt that knowledge would come to her right away. Just so you know Liz didn't commit a crime. She was framed but I doubt Bastian will ever discover that. She never defended herself. She didn't think she would be able to convince anyone that she didn't do it. She just gave up and accepted her fate. I shouldn't compare who your beastkind to mine. But the fate that he has no information or clues about who kidnapped his kids or why means he has little chance of finding them. Especially when they seem to have several days lead. My beastkind wasn't confident that he could help or that his information would be useful to Bastian. He had rumors that another beastkind was using the assassin's guild to search for his children. My beastkind thought there was a chance to that they were going after the same people and if that was the case they would be stronger together than apart. But Bastian didn't seem open to the idea and honestly I couldn't think of a way for either Liz or my beastkind to get him to consider it. If I can think of something I might bring him back but right now I don't see that happening. Liz knows that there is danger in the world but she doesn't think that she is in danger. As a slave she is beneath most people's notice. The Bladed Beauty isn't an assassin. There is no reason for her to be linked to the assassin's guild. Yes the guild might use her, her skills would be very beneficial to them, that doesn't link her to the guild. Yes I could put more into the plot. Yes I can affect where they go. No I will not do either. That is my choice. I don't like it when stories take random paths that have nothing to do with the plot. Until I think of something that helps the story or character growth I will only hint at ideas that I think might help you tell the story. If you get them fine. If you don't I will drop it. I will mention anything I really want in OOC. I do not want or need you to tell me what you have planned. If you don't want me asking questions to clarify points I don't understand than I won't. I'll do my best to respond to what I think is happening and hope that I am not too far off the mark. I don't think Elizabeth's story is going to be a part of this. As much as I hate that it serves no purpose to include it. I will watch for ways to include it but at the moment I don't see it happening. I understand why Bastian needs to control his curse. I am just not convinced that Liz can do it. Not because of her personality but his.I didn't realize the tunnels were blocked. Being tunnels I assumed there was more than one way out. I shouldn't. The uprising is fine. I don't see it's purpose but I am open to seeing how it effect the story. I will follow your lead as best I can. That's all I can do at this point. Unfortunately I don't understand a lot of what you posted for what you have planned coming up but I am not going to worry about it.

[SleepingSilence]

I am not going to argue with you. I am almost sure that you either the title of the pm, which I deleted, or something in our discussion before we started indicated that you were looking for someone subservient.

@KatherinWinter

I'm sorry, but we're kind of arguing. And I'm 100% sure. Because I actually have direct proof to the contrary, and I don't delete old PM's that are still relevant. So let me show you one of my comments.


The important bit with this, is you explaining that you don't want a weak slave.


My reply. "Yeah, I want a more rebellious slave too."


You replying to a comment, I made. Explaining how Bastian did not have good social skills and that I needed someone to aid him.


After I brought my character forward, you seemed to make the decision out of all the pre-made characters. You had nobody. So it was your decision to make them shy and unsociable. I merely said to compromise, that isn't a bad thing on it's own. If she has other skills to back it up like sex appeal or thievery. But you clarified you didn't have that either.

So let's be perfectly clear. I never had a problem with you being a shy character. But because of what I've already explained and how it could be worked around. But it was absolutely not, my idea or direction I forced (or even suggested) upon you. It was your own decision you made arbitrarily, by refusing to make/edit a character that fit the story. Which wouldn't have been a problem if it wasn't used as one.

---

I didn't realize the tunnels were blocked. Being tunnels I assumed there was more than one way out. I shouldn't.

@KatherinWinter

If you read what I wrote. They went down a large, seemingly never ending staircase to get to the underground tunnels. The door shut behind them, making it dark without his eyes. Hence why Bastian carried her.

The only other way (that Bastian or Elizabeth could see.) was the foggy tunnel that went one way and one way only...there was no separate path and even if we made one, you could be rest assured the woman who was pissed off at him would have chased them down.

---

Actually I do know that Bastian won't listen to Liz. While she hasn't tried much she has tried twice.

@KatherinWinter

Some people may need more than two subtle prods to get them to pay attention. Bastian is one of those people. And again, he very much was in an agreeable position in the tunnels with Elizabeth. One of those times, but he also had no other practical choice.

---

Liz knows that there is danger in the world but she doesn't think that she is in danger.

She was framed but I doubt Bastian will ever discover that.

But Bastian didn't seem open to the idea and honestly I couldn't think of a way for either Liz or my beastkind to get him to consider it.
If I can think of something I might bring him back but right now I don't see that happening.

@KatherinWinter

I'm fine with the character being naive in that way. Bastian is naive himself in others. So they match, if nothing else.

Story wise, if we aren't counting off screen measure like we're on a television show. Elizabeth hasn't even introduced herself to him yet. Which again, is why I wanted to use this moment in the story to pause it and build character and the relationship.

Again, I had no problem with the scene and how it unfolded. You did, because of an OOC problem that you believed I did it out of character. Following the shady girl's advice, but not the shady beastkind. But I explained how it made logical sense in character.

---

I shouldn't compare who your beastkind to mine. But the fate that he has no information or clues about who kidnapped his kids or why means he has little chance of finding them.

@KatherinWinter

If you mean from previous RP's, yes you're correct. And you keep bringing up that the odds are small in Bastian's favor like this is a monumental failure on my or our part. When it's literal rule 1 of good drama and story telling. Make the challenge/antagonist/problem as big as possible. The bigger the task, the more accomplished they'll be when they finally succeed...

He had clues, it was small. Yes it the real world, he'd probably be screwed. Good thing this is fantasy.

---

I understand why Bastian needs to control his curse. I am just not convinced that Liz can do it. Not because of her personality but his.

@KatherinWinter

Well again, that challenge is on purpose and is a good thing. Liz is a hardworker, Bastian did help and save her from a lot already. She'd try her best. And after I was going to have Bastian go a step too far, I was going to make him want to finally change himself too.

---

The Bladed Beauty isn't an assassin. There is no reason for her to be linked to the assassin's guild. Yes the guild might use her, her skills would be very beneficial to them, that doesn't link her to the guild.

@KatherinWinter

You answered your own confusion. She's "connected" to them, in the same way she's "connected" to the kidnappers. She has a very useful skill and has helped people that she likely wouldn't have if she knew the full story. Unless I misspoke. It also wouldn't make logical sense, to be working for the guild and then subsequently be ratted out by them as well. (As you would have seen, the criminals, least I planned for them to follow a "Code Of Honor" that applies to fellow members.)

---

Yes I could put more into the plot. Yes I can affect where they go. No I will not do either. That is my choice. I don't like it when stories take random paths that have nothing to do with the plot. I'll do my best to respond to what I think is happening and hope that I am not too far off the mark.

@KatherinWinter

I'll to be as clear as possible. I never minded if you didn't want to create story elements. I was fine with what you were doing. You acknowledge that nothing is holding you back from doing it. But the entire disagreement and my enjoyment ceased as a result that I was being accused of not reading what was wrote.

If you never told me. "Well you must not have read what I said." implying I'm not putting in the basic effort. When I feel basic efforts implies you do these five things. 1. Post 2. Read Posts 3. Run it through basic spellcheck 4. Skim to correct errors you find. 5. Communicate. And I knew I did those things...

You've clearly have had more problems with things I've done, but you still don't understand and have the exact same problems after I clarify it. So there's nothing more I can reasonably do.

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If you don't want me asking questions to clarify points I don't understand than I won't.

@KatherinWinter

I don't have problems with you asking questions. But the ones you had been asking are random, unimportant tangents that come across as nitpicking or backseat roleplaying...

Like one of the first questions involved "Why did he give her the motto of the city?" Why would learning that OOC be essential? And she easily could have asked in IC instead. I don't wish to bring these up, because I found them innocuous enough. But almost all the question weren't really about your character or how you wanted to world build. It was mostly nitpicking Bastian's actions, like they were mine. Like I'm not intentionally writing Bastian as a flawed character who makes mistakes.

But when you add the accusation that I wasn't reading, and add the fact that you refuse to participate in the story. But can't even make up your mind if it's your own choice, or if you want to blame me for I'm making the story in a way you can't understand. You've literally given me both of those reasons, and it can't be both. (But even, if I was somehow to blame. You also don't want to do another roleplay and become the lead instead...)

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I don't think Elizabeth's story is going to be a part of this. As much as I hate that it serves no purpose to include it. I will watch for ways to include it but at the moment I don't see it happening.

@KatherinWinter

Honestly, you haven't even tried. You've admitted to doing so. I don't think you're trying to guilt trip me or anything. But you're still stating it, without even telling me or asking me to help you mesh your story into mine...there's always a way to compromise and I've been willing to do so.

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I think another problem we are having is how we envision the world.

@KatherinWinter

The problem we're having is you created a strict narrative track that you don't think I'm following, that you literally gave not a shred of background information of. But you didn't want to lead the story and have make active efforts to counter directing the story when I give you the rope...

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The uprising is fine. I don't see it's purpose but I am open to seeing how it effect the story. I will follow your lead as best I can.

That's all I can do at this point. Unfortunately I don't understand a lot of what you posted for what you have planned coming up but I am not going to worry about it.

@KatherinWinter

But that's not what I wanted. And it's not what you wanted. And if you aren't following any of the plot, this will only be bound to happen again. I'm not blaming you. I'm not blaming me. I think the best we both can do is maybe try again sometime. But I can't find this scenario fun to continue and I can't imagine all of this has been enjoyable for you either.

I'm sorry that I couldn't find a way to make these easier for you. Or if I seemed rude in my frustration of how this was unfolding. I liked roleplaying with you, and I hope we can do it again in better conditions in the future. But this will have to go on hiatus, if the plot can't be followed or understood by the other person. And the fact that they can't understand it, is forcing them into a situation they won't even do anything but follow. (and since they literally, don't follow.)

This will become a one-sided train-wreck, where neither person is satisfied. So I'm putting this RP to rest. If you wish to continue and have someone else take my place, I give you full permission to do so. I honestly hope to roleplay with you again in future. Have a good rest of your day/afternoon/night.

[KatherinWinter]

Well.... goodbye. I hope you have better luck. I don't think our styles mess. I asked about the motto in ooc because I was afraid it was something Liz should know as someone who lived there. Asking in IF would have made her seem stupid. Just because this is fantasy doesn't mean that logic and reality don't apply. You can't just do whatever the hell you want just because we are making it up doesn't mean that we can do whatever the hell we want. It's true that the bigger the struggle the more success means but you've put our characters into a impossible situation with no clear way out. I like to see how characters are getting from point A to b but I haven't been able to do this. I'm sorry for wasting your time and making you feel like I was nitpicking everything, even if that was never my intent. Good luck in the future.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter You never wasted my time. I enjoyed the experience while it lasted. Same to you.