[OOC] Printed guns, melded metal - An experimental GM-less Cyberpunk RP

[DeadDrop]

lol why are you guys arguing over the rp just make a sheet and rp bro.

[Sierra]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity There is no set of rules & guidelines sufficiently exhaustive to entirely eliminate the need for administrative decision-making. No matter what you do, it will be tested. I would be interested in seeing that problem solved, as I don't particularly see a democratic process as being able to replace that.

To once again bring my skepticism back into play I have the legitimate concern that an attempt to solve the 'GMless' concept will weigh down what is an otherwise fascinating cyberpunk world in red tape. Throw up too many rules/regs/restrictions and it will take a toll on interest. I also think a lot of people are comforted by having a GM as an end-all/be-all authority on lore details and such (which isn't strictly present here).

For brevity's sake I'll avoid commenting on the trust issue beyond saying I fully disagree.

[Hekazu]

lol why are you guys arguing over the rp just make a sheet and rp bro.

@DeadDrop

We are attempting to set some communal guidelines and expectations. A little bit of friendly debate should only help with said goal.

[Sierra]

@DeadDrop We're exploring the theories and complexities of running an RP in an unprecedented fashion. If you have nothing to add to that discussion, I respectfully ask you say nothing. I would remind you to check the section this is in and be aware of the standards of writing that are expected here.

[DeadDrop]

@DeadDrop We're exploring the theories and complexities of running an RP in an unprecedented fashion. If you have nothing to add to that discussion, I respectfully ask you say nothing. I would remind you to check the section this is in and be aware of the standards of writing that are expected here.

@Sierra

Thanks, but I thought there was no GM....? Please don't police me...

<Snipped quote by DeadDrop>

We are attempting to set some communal guidelines and expectations. A little bit of friendly debate should only help with said goal.

@Hekazu

I thought there was like no GM and the players ran the show like begotten or lifeweb.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

@Terminal, @Sierra

I am afraid no matter what your opinion might be I will not concede I am equally suspicious of anyone at a base level and some more than others, particularly in the matter of assuming people will begin to intentionally, knowingly, and deliberately jump one another in power. If by all means you are willing to place so much faith in people then please do so, although I will certainly abstain from that; I have been burned all too many times by trusting prospects that they will not go to the fullest lengths to create "the best" character in every capacity and category. This is not my first attempt at throwing myself in with anything freeform and trust based, be it on the Roleplayer Guild or otherwise.

Continued, I am entirely against allowing players to elope with what amounts to absolute power at a fundamental level; some sort of mechanism needs be in place. This is why I prefer weeding them out by adhering to a sense of level applied to most everyone from the start and setting an ambiguous yet clear intent of tone. If that is insufficient count me out of this project because the last thing I wish to do is waste my time writing another character. Specifically I mean yet another game where it is going to be instantly outdone due to natural power creep or powergaming at large all because a select few players will feel the need to play mastermind or their version of a chosen one. I cannot see in any capacity any joy or pleasure to be derived for myself from that.

No less speaking to a design level of this endeavor, I disagree just anyone should be able to wedge whatever they want into the universe without large agreement. I admit I am not going to sit down and read a three page essay about "Corporation X" and why they are suddenly relevant than players already being, in some minor sense, associated by proxy. If we intend the system to mostly be freeform and eschewing template, sanctioned elements by a storyteller, that so too means it needs to be vetted and efficiently.

I'll add nothing beyond that to this conversation, but this far consider me turned off to the idea if we are suddenly changing major things which had been generally agreed upon before as the idea and direction. Granted some were not in the Discord for it, though I am not backing down from my stance or what I was looking to do when I tossed my lot in here originally.

[The Scotsman]

<Snipped quote by Sierra>

Thanks, but I thought there was no GM....? Please don't police me...

<Snipped quote by Hekazu>

I thought there was like no GM and the players ran the show like begotten or lifeweb.

@DeadDrop

Hey man! How's life? Anyway, I think, from what I can gather, that as there's no GM, they just want to set down some parameters before they let us loose. "You can do anything within X/Y/Z, is everyone cool with that?" etc etc. It's just some spitballing before the sandbox is opened up. Not rules but certain limitations, and they're still trying to hash them out.

[Hekazu]

<Snipped quote by Sierra>

Thanks, but I thought there was no GM....? Please don't police me...

<Snipped quote by Hekazu>

I thought there was like no GM and the players ran the show like begotten or lifeweb.

@DeadDrop

We are indeed not aiming to have a set in stone GM. However, that means players need to be the ones that look after each other and make sure the RP fits those aiming to participate. This includes the matter of how characters are introduced and of what power level we seek to introduce them from. We are not running a tabletop game system. We are trying freeform where "everyone is a GM". And for that to not end in a disaster, we should be sure that everyone is on the same page.

---

Speaking of being on the same page, I propose everyone holds their proverbial horses for the time being. Different concerns have been brought about by different views on the subject, and I can see this is getting to be an issue. But before we stray into the subject of whether we can place our trust in the players to do something, that being all of us in the same position, let us briefly have a look at the basic premise that those on the Discord brought in. We shall briefly return to the case of Lt. Davison.

From storytelling perspective, bringing around any high level corporate people does not really fit. The occasional person interested in the matter would be rather unlikely to be any more powerful than any usual police officer, or a higher ranking gangster. It is not as much a hard limit in my eyes, as it is the plausibility of participation that I would draw the line at here. Sure, the corporation representative that has spoken with Davison may have been a powerful individual, but they have just been serving as a messenger and likely have no further interest in the matter if things proceed as they should.

In my eyes, we should not focus on what other waves this might start underground, or that we should climb higher in the system. I propose we intentionally attempt to keep ourselves here, on the level that makes sense for the story that we are seeking to tell. If the previously agreed upon story is not to your liking, that is a whole another matter. But since nothing of the sort has been said, in my point of view we should aim to limit any character designs with the plausibility of them being interested in this matter. Limited in power to fit in the story, not for the sake of limiting power. A chapter of more powerful individuals might arise later, if people find it in their interests. But for now, the story is low-middle class individuals at best, if my vision has remained accurate.

@The Harbinger of Ferocity@Sierra@Terminal

[DeadDrop]

Sounds good.

[DJAtomika]

Tbh I'm just here for some cyberpunk action and stuff, I don't really have anything to add to the discussion.

I have this thread subscribed, I'll come back again once everyone's settled on the way we're going to run this RP.

[DeadDrop]

Neon Lights and the smell of death....

[Jarrid]

Hi guys. I've been away from the forum for a while but this has really sparked my interest. I love the idea of a constantly evolving story line, driven along by the creative ideas of each individual player. Plus I adore cyberpunk, and all the limitless character opportunities it presents. Count me in.

I also completely agree with the comments about avoiding power creep and trusting in one another to not completely control the setting or the plot. I've run several RP's in the past, one on this forum too, and it is a major annoyance trying to keep players on track with the plot, not go off on irrelevant and contradictory tangents, and also not create characters clearly designed to be 'better' than everyone. It would be nice to be part of a story with players of similar mindsets. Working on some character and story ideas as we speak!

[DeadDrop]

In the sprawling civilization of Night City it's easy to forget about the less developed areas of the city. The combat zone is growing yearly as gangs push out into the poor residential area and unnatural disasters strike at people's homes. This is just one part of the sprawling Night City, toeing the line between post-holocaust hellhole and streetscum crammed into coffin apartments. When the bomb went off at the subway station, it signed the doom of the people less-equipped for the red concrete; they had to leave and they had to do it fast. Apartment blocks were abandoned in preparation for the gangs to move in and secure the territory, but nobody came because nobody claimed responsibility for the bombing. The established gangs won't risk losing it all in a war with the Blood Razors, but some people have nothing to lose; isn't that why you're here?

Maybe you're one of the poor trying to break out of poverty, an edgerunner taking yourself off the radar, a gang looking for some new turf to settle, or someone crazy enough to love this life. Nobody here can afford to lose and everyone is playing for keeps. The moment you taste that toxic smog, you're all in.

[Hekazu]

A fair write-up. A suggestion for a starting plot, or a later element for one @DeadDrop?

[DeadDrop]

A sign of whats to come...

[The Scotsman]

I've just had a thought, and whilst it may not be original, I wanted to run it by you all regardless. I want to begin my part in the story in classic noir fashion, with a character that's arc includes the transition from classic noir to the neo-noir oft found in cyberpunk. I'm thinking a private detective trying to find out what happened to Davidson, and during his personality and outlook arc, his space in this cyberpunk world (and the style of the character) will change too.

Is anyone opposed to this, thinks it might be overly shitty, or had this as their idea first?

[DeadDrop]

approved

[Hekazu]

It appears to be a good fit, as long as we seek an option where Lt. Davison is dead. Thus far, I believe, we have had a few people voice their interest for him being alive and perhaps even with the group however. We should likely discuss the story approach we want to begin with before we go and create too many characters that may or may not fit in the one approach we end up taking.

[The Scotsman]

It appears to be a good fit, as long as we seek an option where Lt. Davison is dead. Thus far, I believe, we have had a few people voice their interest for him being alive and perhaps even with the group however. We should likely discuss the story approach we want to begin with before we go and create too many characters that may or may not fit in the one approach we end up taking.

@Hekazu

Oh yeah, of course. This was only thought of in the scenario where we don't know what happened to Davidson and were trying to find him. he could be alive or dead and his status unknown, or he's dead and the widow wants to find the killer.

If he is alive, my only suggestion for this character would be his wife or family etc ask the PI to find out what happened to Davidson as the man himself wont discuss what happened. SO he could be a spy for the family wanting to find out what happened? There are large inconsistencies with this route but it's an option if some players are willing to go with it.

Nonetheless, the basic premise has to be agreed upon, as you have stated. Where exactly are we with that? I've had a skim through but there seems to be a couple different debate threads that converge and diverge into varying conversations.

[Hekazu]

@The Scotsman
The story options presented remain largely in those we have discussed previously in the Discord, though a few people have voiced a distinct preference towards the plot where we join Lt. Davison in trying to get out of the pile of trouble he'd buried himself in when he acted as a salesman for the gear. The idea of the investigator being hired by a relative (or perhaps even the corporation to make sure things proceed smoothly?) seems good to me!

Bonus points for drama between gangsters who are employed from different gangs, and/or mob members from those Davison did not hire his help from, thinking the man sold out to the other gangs. I might as well make my primary character a gang type of guy.