[OOC] Divinity Vs Dazsos!

[Divinity]

To say that you'll abide by T1E, and then say that all of your abilities can count as insta-preps is counter productive, unless all those things would take a full turn to mature like any other prep. As for combining runes, or barriers, that still would only count as a charge or prep if it takes at least a turn to mature. As in you can't just fuse two barriers in a single post and then say that this would count as a 'charge'.

If you're fine with this then I'm more than willing to continue.

[Dazsos]

Also about the barrier, it cuts off oxygen for Myron, so he cannot stay in it for a prolonged amount of time unless he creates holes in the dome. (Thus creating weak points.) Otherwise there are certain types of magic that should effect the wall. (Not saying what! You sneaky sneaks.) And there is a much easier way to destroy it... buuut I kind of disabled the easy route. (Stop it Daz, don't give them hints!) Okay, okay! Mr. Bracketed version of my typing.

I'm saying that some of Myron's runes WON'T count as powerful preps whatsoever, but more like semi-quick-cast spells. Since he is good at creating large pieces of text, it should be safe to say he can up a spell count, whilst simultaneously focusing on one important prep at the same time. Otherwise, honestly, based on how his magic works... all of his spells require preparation, and he's always been skilled at preparing multiple things. This bugs you... and I've been very strict about what I want out of this fight, so now I'm willing to give up points that would otherwise benefit myself, to show mutual respect. Although I see it as illogical when applied to certain runes, I'm willing to dim down the force behind his minor spells, if they are quickly conceived.

There is however the issue of him perhaps being able to prep multiple things, but doubling the amount of time it takes to actually activate them. Or, the very common thing he does, which is to completely delay a prepared spell for prolonged amounts of times, then ready it a certain away, in which it'll suddenly count as a prep when it was not originally. I.E. The laser eye. He had the rune formed before, however the actions he used to aim it, sense the surroundings, and activate it, would suddenly make it count as a full attack prep.

[Divinity]

Uh, I'm really not sure how I feel about 'surprise' preps. This literally would allow you to suddenly claim anything is prepped when it was never supposed to be, which could save your character from otherwise certain death in the right scenario. If you can count sudden things as preps simply by aiming them, then this would logically also apply to me.... which I'm sure would lead to us both pulling preps out of our asses any time things look dire for us.

As for speed casting while prepping, I have no issue with this since you said he'd only be able to actively prep a single action.

[Dazsos]

The thing is, after a rune is 'prepared,' as swiftly as it might be or might not be... using it later in the heat of battle should count as a matured prep because it would force Myron to concentrate on only that ability. He wouldn't be able to prep any other spells whilst making sure that rune is doing the best job it could, and it would likely consume an entire action for him, even though the rune was dormant until then. So essentially it would still follow the standard usage form for preps under T1E. Since there's already restrictions to Myron's cast speed, I see this as a way to ensure the end result isn't a waste of extremely important time. The con is that even his faster spells aren't inherently fast at all... the pro is that he has more options at his disposal if he prepares the right rune combinations.

[Divinity]

It only seems to loosely follow T1E, in that the interpretation you're using is far more nebulous. T1E suggests that preps be made apparent from the start, as in it should be made known that they are primarily focusing on that thing beforehand, not an off the cuff 'sudden' spike in focus when it's convenient. If that's the case this rule should still apply to me, provided I suddenly decide to place all of my characters focus on something randomly.

Edit: Provided I decide to go along with this intepretation, it would still be subject to the one prep a turn logic. If you created a rune in this post, but were charging something else in that post, then when you let that rune off later it could not logically count as a matured prep, since you were already prepping your one action in the post that the rune in question originated in. To do otherwise would violate the 'one thing prepped a turn' logic, because this would suggest you charged two things at once.

[Dazsos]

Think of having two connected switches, where if you turned one on, the other would turn off. Whatever was being charged before would be relieved of focus, and what was originally a minor spell, suddenly would turn in to a full prep in the next turn. There's two turns in question here, thus two preps are allowed. The process of writing them is practically preparing a preparation. Pre-prep.

Perhaps you don't realize how difficult/disadvantaged this situation still could be for me? See, Myron has to half-prep absolutely every single spell he has, before possibly putting them to use later. Corban can mature a prep in one turn using his brain waves. If Myron hadn't prep/prepared a spell prior, he wouldn't skillfully be able to use it against not only other preps, but even against quick-cast abilities that are weaker in your T1E.

[Divinity]

I had thought of that concept, and that works, provided the prep that is turned off stays turned off. You would not be able to suddenly mature that in a later turn. You would have to restart that prep from the ground up if you wanted to get its +1.

[Dazsos]

The first prep was still being readied, and in terms of how runelore works, unless you properly disrupted it, I don't see a reason why it couldn't be postponed. This agreement would assume I'm only capable of maturing 1 prep every 2 turns, and I'd rather burn a hundred copies of the T1EA handbook than agree to that. The first prep would obviously take an entire turn to properly use, if returned to, otherwise it may then classify as a minor spell if it wasn't trashed entirely.

[Divinity]

The agreement posits that you begin a prep in one phase of a turn, and then matures as of a phase in the next. So it's 1 prep matured for every full turn phase. So yeah.

To make sure, we both agree that the 'turned off' rune/spell would have to be recharged right?

[Dazsos]

The 'turned off' rune would work like saving a file in your video game. Unless obstructed in some way, it may be somewhat faster to mature once returned to. Depending on what stage in the creation process it was stalled at, an idiom may revert to one of many marks, glyphs, or seals, that often serve as its building blocks; this would transform a prep in to a minor action, and weaken its overall strength on that turn.

'Charging' isn't really something that applies to most runes, they need only be written in magical ink, and their effects are almost always consistent from one to the other. Some may be enhanced by increasing their size, and this could be seen as an obvious prep. Applying more runes in a stack could also be seen as a prep... right now, I suppose if there's no boost to how many 'preps' Myron can conjure, then the buff provided by his time paradox is instead a boost to just how powerful his next prep may very well be, based on how many runes he'll stack and abuse on his next... oh god how many times have I used this abbreviation by now... his next prep...

[Divinity]

Save files work both ways. For example, in Ocarina of Time (and almost every single other Zelda game), regardless of when or where you save in a temple, the next time you load up that file Link will spawn at the temples entrance. This is what I expect to happen to 'turned off' charges. No stopping it mid-way and then being able to pick up exactly where you left off, thus still allowing you to do exactly what I'm against, which is turn anything into a prep when it shouldn't have been. This still functions entirely like multiprepping.

Also, I swore we covered that stacking abilities doesn't naturally count as a charge unless it takes a full turn. Like, me combining two barriers doesnt neccessarily make it a prepped barrier, just a well fortified one. As for your time paradox 'empowering' preps, I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean that the time paradox should skip a +1 to a +2 without actually taking the turns to mature it that far then I'd be against it. Since that would directly correlate time to power again, which this prep system does not do.

Edit: to put the nail in the coffin of the 'surprise' prep argument, if you could suddenly switch what you're prepping on the fly, and simultaneously keep the turned off prep 'half cocked', you would conceivably always have a prep in the hand, considering all you'd have to do is always have at least one vague rune placed somewhere, and considering your character made eleven in the last two posts alone, that clearly would never be an issue for him.

To drive the point home more, let's look at this practically:

Let's say you have been prepping an attack as of your last post, but the situation demands that you switch to maturing the prep of one of your other runes to properly defend my incoming attack, thus leaving that attack 'half cocked' instead of fully prepped. Your character would be able to survive my attack, and then regain the prep lost at the very beginning of your next post, instead of having to restart it in the following post if you really wanted it that badly, meaning you'd almost always be able to do this, provided you just keep chucking runes everywhere. Any other time, you would be forced to take damage or evade (since suddenly changing what's prepping on the fly is not allowed in most other places while being able to count that action as a full prep, especially if you'd take damage logically otherwise), but instead you can just 'surprise! I have hidden preps!' At any time you don't feel like taking damage or actually dealing with something. The room for abuse here is astronomically high.

In conclusion, you either agree to T1E or you dont, and you already said you would earlier. I have no desire to do in-betweens, or rule negotiations that allow you to bypass the restrictions put in place for convenience.

[Dazsos]

That has to be the worst game you could actually reference! The Legend of Zelda was one of the very first video games for the NES to ever implement saving, the only other one I can think of being Faxanadu. Also, if you've actually played any of these beautiful puzzle games, you'd know that Link's progress in a dungeon remains true, every door stays unlocked, every heart piece and secret treasure isn't removed from his inventory; he may start at the beginning, but like the idea of runes, his progress isn't destroyed, he needs only find where he left off and continue from there.

There is no 'hidden prep.' The idea is that there's a 1 prep per turn rule, and my character would only be able to use a prep if he has the rune set up already. This is far beyond the required amount of processes necessary for your character to use magic, and nearly all of your spells are hidden, so if you don't like it... you can quit this fight; I'm not immersed enough anymore to beg your stay, or willingly bend over and have my ass spanked by a rule(r), like some naughty girl in a Catholic school whose only violation was calling bullshit on the Noah's arc flood. If what you're explaining is what should happen if your character surprises mine with some ability, then even preps and non-preps shouldn't matter, you'd likely get off some damage in my eyes if you were so tactical. This idea that the rules are the only way to earn damage or defend against it takes away from the real value of imagination, tactics, and what this bout should be about; a battle between our characters! Not a pathetic battle between me and you to see who can abuse the system first for freebies.

There's no use in playing this like a parking officer desperate to meet his quota, and I'll say this... parking officers aren't always right, but they know not everybody wants to take time out of their work schedule to fight a silly $30 ticket. Their mortal enemy is the angry mom, whose every minute of spare time is dedicated to ensuring things go fairly for herself and her offspring, verbally abusing anyone who wrongs her. I'm like the mom in this instance, but with an extra appendage.

[Divinity]

It being one of the first games means nothing if it remains the same and still survives as a series. The point was that progress was restarted. Even if the 'doors remain unlocked', one would still have to do the footwork back to them.

You also repeated the exact rule you're trying to circumvent. 1 prep a turn means you can only ever amass or focus on a single thing per turn. To be able to leave your prep half-cooked still is a tricky workaround that I'm not comfortable with. I find it quite funny, actually, that you put words in my mouth and then build counter arguments to those invisible assertions. I never implied 'rules' are the only way to legitimately earn damage. I implied they are needed to maintain structure. I only ask we abide by the general rules of the style were playing. You are the one arguing from a corner, fighting tooth and nail to work around the rules that you already agreed to. I already voiced that if we aren't doing T1E then I have no desire to continue. It was your urging that compelled me to keep at this, but if you are no longer interested then paint us the same color.

I suppose we will wait for @Rilla to decide if this should count as ranked or not. Regardless, Corban forfeits!

[Dazsos]

You're assuming I'm breaking rules, whereas I'm saying the rules don't accurately assess every single situation, and must be applied specifically. Your inability to work with me on finding even ground for how the rules apply to these runes isn't my issue, yet you're making it my issue. I never broke a rule, but if it keeps your pride in tact, and your point score from mar, convince yourself I did. I know the truth.

The most recent among your arguments can honestly be broken down in to the idea that I shouldn't be allowed 1 prep per turn, but instead I should be forced in to a situation where I can only really use 1 per 2 turns. Again it's absurd to think someone can't focus on two things at once; two 'preps' sure, because that abbreviation seems to have an entirely unique structure and etiquette, it's not 'focus,' or 'only one rune,' or anything to do with 'time,' it's seemingly the 'most prominent attack or defense in a post.'

Let's say Myron is readying a rune, and this one counts as a prep, but he isn't using it against you yet. That's 1 turn, 1 prep. It may as well complete on that turn, I shouldn't have to argue that. You post next, trying to obstruct that rune. I did mention that if you successfully ruined the rune, that's that. So you post next, and now I have another turn to react to your attack, so I'm allowed an entire extra prep on that turn, if Myron noticed your attack in time. This is completely coherent with your rules. So what do you want? For his prior rune to be void for no reason? For the ink to suddenly disappear, for no reason? Give me a reason, a good one, and I'll consider it... but if it's just 'well the rules say,' well the rules don't say that ink disappears, does it? No!

Right now you're just calling me desperate, but I'm not the one running away, any scratch marks you feel are probably just injuries your pride has sustained over the course of our debate.

[MelonHead]

That wasn't the issue at all, the issue was when you were saying you should be allowed to cast two runes in a turn, and then activate whichever one you wanted in the next round with a prep advantage. So you essentially have two hypothetical preps at once.

Not to mention, the rune that then wasn't used you still wanted to be a prep when you wanted it later, without having to restart the charging process.

So basically this was just a thinly veiled attempt to get multi-preps again, which is not how the system works. Innue even said that even if you wanted a multi-prep system, it wasn't going to work in that fashion. Otherwise time spells would be the only thing worthwhile.

I'm dissapointed Dazsos, I didn't think you would stoop so low to edge your opponent out.

[Divinity]

I have explained my reasoning several times to you and have tried to work wth you for more than long enough. I have held the superior bargaining position on this matter and your goading on will change nothing. I am more than willing to sustain a Mar on my record from something like a forfeit. It's roleplay. So your tantrum is laughable at best. I feel no 'scratches' and my pride is in perfect tact. There is no reason it shouldn't be, considering how this argument has went.

You trying to falsely paint me in the way that you are reveals far more damaging evidence of your insecurity and pride than mine.

Nor is your argument based on what I'm saying.... again. I guess we can put Strawman right next to Reductio ad Absurdum on your resume you've amassed thus far. I never said your 'deprepped' rune would disappear. Ever. I said it's prep as a game mechanical gauge for power would disappear. Your rune would still exist, but unless you started over the prepping process, it would only count as a quickdraw.

[Dazsos]

See neither of you said that till now. Divinity, your argument was that I'd need to charge it from the beginning. But runes don't get 'charged' so your arguments just didn't hold between both the IC and OOC, I had to manually translate your words. I translated 'charged' in to 'written,' and hell no, it wouldn't need to be written from scratch. So then what's the difference? That I focus entirely on the rune that was 'sort of prepped' in order to make it a full prep again? That'd take a second turn, therefore, two turns, two preps. I still don't see the problem, when your ruleset is as vague as your profile.

So I'm allowed to create multiple runes, but there's no true example for which of them would count as the prep? Can you see how difficult this is for me to work with, when neither of you are actually being helpful? You're being as helpful as saying you're being helpful, which isn't helpful whatsoever. 1/10 on the help factor, you advertise your help like McDonalds advertises the size of their burgers.

Unlike many others here, I'm willing to admit my pride may be marred, even if I win! Because lying is fucking petty, and one's pride should aspect many things. Even if slightly, if you did not apply your pride to this battle, then you are void of respect... for yourself, and me. I pride myself in everything I do, and if I'm judged wrongly, it's my pride that convinces me to vindicate myself. If you were insulted even once, that is a matter of your pride, don't try and act all high and mighty, I'm sure you're just another fleshy human like myself, who is capable of stress and pain.

So there's no rule against me 'preparing' multiple runes at once, but there is one against a 'prep' for two runes at once; Because obviously it's a stronger and more influential word if you remove 5 letters from it. You make me hate T1EA, when I didn't originally, I love unique rulesets if they're established early and agreed upon. Perhaps someone else would be more lenient and understanding that T1EA didn't invent combat roleplaying, but a bunch of dicks who have never agreed on anything were the ones who invented T1EA. Label me whatever you wish, if your intent was to prove the usefulness of T1EA, you failed...

(P.S I'm drunk and fully aware my argument may be slightly less skillfully executed as it should be... and I blame all of you for your constant harassing. My poor feelings. Boo hoo, I tantrum. Wah wah... jerkbutts.)

[Divinity]

I'd take a hard introspective look and reevaluate my reading comprehension skills before I'd say something as blatantly false as 'you two weren't helpful'. We could have written it in menstrual blood on pearl walls and it still wouldnt have been clear to you. Using my vague profile again, that you consistently misquoted earlier, is surely as vague as a rule set that literally spells this stuff out. Clearly.

We have said I don't know how many times that 'charging' is another word that can be used in place of prepping, and we already said an equal number of times that mechanically, all a charge is is a technique gaining power. What is there not to get? How can the runes not charge? Because of some flimsy pretense that your character doesn't 'power' his runes up? Why not just.... alter that, then? Talk about neglecting the most basic concessions.

The problem is that you selectively listen to information. You are still making prepping a purely IC mechanic, when it functions more as an OOC balancing mechanic, which weve also said at least 3 times.

How and why would you require an example for 'which of your runes counts as a prep"? What is difficult about that? It's up to you which rune you'd like to prep. How dows the fault of this clear lack in comprehension from you get placed on us? Why would or should we need, or be expected to tell you what and how to prep?

As for my 'high and mighty' demeanor, I'd also suggest you not apply your limitations to me. I have an ego the size of which could contend with the largest of them, make no mistake! But rp fighting, and this fight in particular, is not some lion chested declaration of auperiority. I've been fighting regularly since the early 200's. My days of doing this for bragging rights are long over. I'm just self sure and committed in my decisions and follow-throughs. Nor was this at all to prove t1E's usefulness. Where are you even pulling these straw men from? It was to structure this fight. Something you refuse to do. Also, good job associating the rules with how they're spelled, because that's definitely what dictates it.

[Rilla]

I'll check in on this tomorrow, Thursday at the latest.

My schedule is this.

I'm working tonight then another shift right after at my second job.

4 hours at home with my kid, then another night shift, home until 7 PM. So may be able to do it Wednesday.

[Dazsos]

"Why not just, you know, change that?" Cause I'm not full of shit, bro. The spells can't be charged, they don't increase in strength that way, they just activate the power that's predetermined in the profile I supplied you. I don't want to change how my character works just cause your ruleset doesn't apply to him... cause that absolves the fact I get to say 'hey, your ruleset doesn't apply perfectly, it's not good enough, people need to work on this.' That's something that's necessary when rules suck. It in fact helps rules, cause then better rulesets get to be created!

You two have 0% say in how helpful you are. See, you're trying to tell me you're helpful when you're not, again! That shit's annoying bro, helpfulness isn't something you decide, it's decided by the person who is receiving help. Super basic stuff. I don't feel helped, end of discussion. You can't go try and be a teacher, fail everyone, and say. "Yeah they learned so much in my class." No they didn't, you sucked.

"Prepping only works OOC" then why are you applying it to the IC? Oh, cause it actually has relevance IC? Then why did you say it didn't? Science damnit, and you wonder why you confuse the shit outta' me. Cause you say things... things that don't mean anything. Then you say. "Well you didn't understand." I'm drunk, so sure, you may have leverage there... but even my sober self can understand things that are explained skillfully. Problem is, nobody seems skilled at explaining themselves here. Shit, not even me, yet I'm the only one willing to admit faults! I'm misunderstood half the time, too! You've all proven that we're all arguing idiots! Half of me loves it! It's chaos, it's exciting! It's stupid as fuck and every moderator is going to absolutely fucking hate dealing with this! Wooooo! Yaaaay! Battle of the dumb dumbs.

If I prepared a rune as a trap, and you step on it... what does it count as? A quick cast that you can ignore cause it's not a prep? Or a prep that you don't have the right handling on? Either way, it's a trap, and chances are, it may have caught you off guard. Half of Myron's runes can count as this. You're both making this soooooo difficult for me, I swear...

Now we come to this; 'oh well Daz is trying to multiprep, he's a douche for that.' Well not really, you still didn't agree or disagree on how my runes & idioms may or may not count as preps whatsoever. You said he can create multiple runes, so berating me for counting 1 as a prep on one turn, and another as a prep the next turn, surely means you've entrapped me in to this idea. "Well he started creating both on the first turn!" Well that's because he has to, his spells take longer to finalize than his opponent's, and he's literally forced in to choosing between those two runes in the end. Obviously on that first turn he'd only be able to properly utilize one rune, one prep. I never said two preps would flourish on one turn, which was the original fit had. And the only line of the rulebook used against me was 'hey, don't use two preps in one turn.' Okay, I didn't, you're welcome. So what's the big deal? Oh, you don't like how I'm not bending over for you? Need someone to blame? Someone to put the entire fault of this mess upon? Alright guys, I'll be your man... shit, I'm totally used to that, actually! Practically half the people I know can't handle being responsible for messes they're partly to blame for. I just happen to be an excellent mop, thank you for choosing me!