No joke, I wish you hadn't broken character in that last sentence.
Candelabra
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Really enjoying KOTOR but damn is the light/dark system dumb. I really dislike that showing any kind of passion even when it's arguably justified gives you DS points. Jolee is basically me.
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Really enjoying KOTOR but damn is the light/dark system dumb. I really dislike that showing any kind of passion even when it's arguably justified gives you DS points. Jolee is basically me.
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Public Role Play: A food critic comes in and thoroughly dashes a young chefs dreams. No smut. No fetish. Just humilitation.
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4 yrs ago
Forum: 1x1 Interest Checks
snip
I feel like there's a lot of assumptions and misinterpretations in what you're saying here. To address your first point——yeah? But I'd say that there's a pretty universal standard for good writing that will obviously be evident. George R.R. Martin is 99.9 percent of the time going to be considered better than a 10 year old writing their first fanfic. Sure, a very small amount of people are going to think that the kid is better than the published author, but whenever we say "good" writing it should be obvious that we're looking at the consensus formed by the most knowledgeable consumers and skilled authors. Doesn't the fact that you're saying that writing is "actually fanfic tier" instead of "god-tier awesome" show that you have a clear standard for what is good and what is bad writing? I know that this connects to your subjectivity point in a way. Thing is, it shows that there's obviously a clear consensus of what quality looks like and that most writers typically want to head towards that point.
Second, I already said that I don't have an issue with the idea of writing long posts in the OP, which is how a lot of people took it despite me saying the exact opposite in the thread starter. The issue is not the quantity of a singular post being long, nor did I ever say that posts should ALWAYS be short. Rather, I was saying that to constantly have long posts is inevitably going to have a detrimental effect on quality because there will inevitably be little of substance to say when lengthy posts are written every time regardless of context or how much it contributes to narrative and characters. Quantity can mean that there is a lot of information. What it does not necessarily mean is that all of that information isn't redundant or insignificant as to draw out the post count while contributing very little to the play as a whole.
I can't tell if you actually mean me in your third point, but I made it clear that I didn't always want short posts. This connects to my other point, though. As people get more involved in a hobby, they will usually cultivate a desire to improve their craft. Not all the time, duh, and the people who are fine without changing things up should not be looked down upon. However, more often than not people will want to improve and as they do so what they have fun reading and writing will be subject to change. Even if roleplaying isn't about being good, you can't act like that isn't a huge factor in it.
And you already said that your last point is subjective so I won't dwell on it for too long. I will say that I find the exact opposite to be true. When a person writes quantity is not quality, I find that they're more to the point. If you feel the need to write more because you're in an environment that links that particular skill to having higher quality, then you are way, way more likely to repeat what the other person said as a way to get more words in. Frankly, however, the issue with both purple prose and rehashes are that they give remarkably little for the other person to respond to. I named the thread "Quantity is not Quality," yes, but the main point of contention is how there is little value in a lot of cases where people feel the need to write an exorbitant amount——not in all cases.
I feel like in a lot of areas you were responding to what you'd assume a person making the quantity is not quality argument would say as opposed to what I was actually pinpointing.
I don't really have one off the top of my head. I just started off bad and got better by reading guides. Maybe Andrew Hussie kinda?
<Snipped quote by Inkarnate>
This is sadly pretty accurate. I think a lot of people genuinely do fear any historical RP's because it requires doing research. There's no harm in researching things. I mean, I just had to look up SS and Gestapo ranks for a RP I'm doing on another site that is set in Nazi Germany. It was actually kind of fun just for the sake of learning some things I hadn't known before.
What are your sources for researching?
This site is too obsessed with collabs and often does them wrong.
How do you mean?
@BrokenPromise
Elite force is a bit much. And I do think that when you specify quantity and link it to a title like "Advanced" while saying that lesser quality is expected of the categories that write less, then yeah, there's going to be an association with that section as where "the best of the best" go to write.
And in the case you mentioned, then yeah, that's cool, but then you have to go into the conversational section of the writing which is where the bloat I was talking about comes from. I feel like if you have to write constantly when there's not much to say, then you're setting yourself up to practice Purple Prose. Though I do think that you can very easily integrate that kind of lore in a Casual RP.
And I'm gonna reiterate that this isn't meant to shit on you for liking what you like, just a means to have a discussion over an opinion I figure would be controversial that I want to talk about.
@Inkarnate
Mm, I think you're going a little extreme. Rather than being a minimalist or maximalist, why not adopt either or depending on the context? This isn't me saying that long always equals bad. As you said, it's okay when there's a need.
It's more that when you label a section where the expectation is that you have paragraphs upon paragraphs per post, people are inevitably going to be focus on minutia to follow those guidelines, whether it leads them to improve their writing or not. By associating such a format with Advanced, you are implying that it's better than the other categories.
In a conversation, I do a think a paragraph is good enough because you can add a lot of subtletys into your characters' actions to develop them without spelling everything out for your partner. There's not much to be gained from constant deliberation in what should be a naturally flowing encounter.
@Penny
Yeah, that seems like a smart workaround. I had it drilled into my head that taking control of another person's character is SINFUL so I forget about that as possibility.
Elite force is a bit much. And I do think that when you specify quantity and link it to a title like "Advanced" while saying that lesser quality is expected of the categories that write less, then yeah, there's going to be an association with that section as where "the best of the best" go to write.
And in the case you mentioned, then yeah, that's cool, but then you have to go into the conversational section of the writing which is where the bloat I was talking about comes from. I feel like if you have to write constantly when there's not much to say, then you're setting yourself up to practice Purple Prose. Though I do think that you can very easily integrate that kind of lore in a Casual RP.
And I'm gonna reiterate that this isn't meant to shit on you for liking what you like, just a means to have a discussion over an opinion I figure would be controversial that I want to talk about.
@Inkarnate
Mm, I think you're going a little extreme. Rather than being a minimalist or maximalist, why not adopt either or depending on the context? This isn't me saying that long always equals bad. As you said, it's okay when there's a need.
It's more that when you label a section where the expectation is that you have paragraphs upon paragraphs per post, people are inevitably going to be focus on minutia to follow those guidelines, whether it leads them to improve their writing or not. By associating such a format with Advanced, you are implying that it's better than the other categories.
In a conversation, I do a think a paragraph is good enough because you can add a lot of subtletys into your characters' actions to develop them without spelling everything out for your partner. There's not much to be gained from constant deliberation in what should be a naturally flowing encounter.
@Penny
Yeah, that seems like a smart workaround. I had it drilled into my head that taking control of another person's character is SINFUL so I forget about that as possibility.
Bump.
Back when I started off roleplaying, I always saw the Advanced category as something to aspire to. I looked at the paragraphs upon paragraphs that people wrote and was both amazed and intimidated, so I kept to my lanes (free and casual) for a long time. However, as I dabbled in all of the categories and once had a play where my partner and I were averaging around 2000 words per post, I came to a conclusion: I feel like "Advanced" is a misnomer. It brings with it an air of superiority, as though its reflective of the skill level a writer must be at in order to engage in it. But in reality, I believe that it more than anything else signifies how much content a person is willing to put into a given post, which is radically different from how good a post is.
Tell me if this sounds familiar at all: You start writing with someone and you both figure, hey, I've been at this for awhile and so have you, I'm a good enough writer for Advanced and this plot looks sick, let's give this a shot! So after you both write your introduction posts which are rightfully going to have a lot to establish, you get down to the actual interactions and everything grinds to a halt. Posts become slower. Your partner is writing a lot per post, but there's not much you can actually reply to, so you focus mainly on your character's emotions, how their reactions relate to their backstory, etc etc. That is, until, one of you is burned out by the slow pace of the plot and the project dies before clearing a single page. This is an experience I've had many times and one I know is shared by many people. It's the main reason I started thinking about writing this post.
In my opinion, Advanced isn't really conducive to good writing in the context of roleplay. It's one thing if you're writing a story on your own and can control all of the interactions between characters to be as short or long as you need them to be, but it's something else entirely when you have another person there whose responses you must consider. You can't write their reaction for them, obviously, so you find yourself deliberating upon your character's reactions to every minute detail, inadvertently applying pressure unto your partner to match your count so they don't look like they aren't engaging with you. With this exchange, you miss out on subtlety and the ability for you and your partner to engage as "audience" members, as well as a lot of realism considering that people don't often think too deeply when in the middle of action.
To elaborate, I believe that in a roleplay a person is always splitting the role of a creator and audience member. They must create content in order to interest the other person and are then in a position to enjoy what their partner made for them. However, when writing in the long form, the latter role is downplayed significantly. What I mean by this is that it becomes difficult to write mysteries around your character that can get your partner asking questions and being surprised when your character does an action or develops in such a way that they didn't see coming. Both of you know every in and out of your characters' behavior by necessity, otherwise you would find it impossible to meet the criteria for Advanced. Not only does this often lead to a dull experience for reading and especially writing, you mess with the flow of the plot and roleplay alike because even simple conversations must be written around the idea that you need to either elaborate a lot on the simple sentences your character says or have them speak a lot in an unnatural manner to inflate the amount of content you can put into a post. This will obviously consume a lot of time, make it difficult to find motivation to post more often, and potentially lead your promising RP into an early grave.
Compare this to Free and Casual——in both cases, writers are compelled more to focus on characterization as they need only to progress the story forward and give their partner something to bounce off of. This makes it far easier to maintain a healthily flowing plot and write long term as you aren't constantly mentally prepping yourself for a huge slog in order to reach the more interesting section of a story. This obviously different in cases where each player has multiple characters to account for, but I often find that people focus on making an amalgam of casual posts or dialogue in order to achieve this goal.
Now, I'm not knocking anyone who prefers the Advanced category. What I'm more against is the idea that there is any superiority that comes with simply writing more. If you look at the descriptions for Free and Casual, you notice that they're described as places to go if don't "want to have to worry about standards" or want "some depth," whereas Advanced is where you go for "character development and extensive settings/lore" on account of its more extensive word requirement. This is a really dangerous mindset to instill as it builds a connection between quality and quantity. People should write well regardless of how many words they can cram into a post.
Please let me know what you all think, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Tell me if this sounds familiar at all: You start writing with someone and you both figure, hey, I've been at this for awhile and so have you, I'm a good enough writer for Advanced and this plot looks sick, let's give this a shot! So after you both write your introduction posts which are rightfully going to have a lot to establish, you get down to the actual interactions and everything grinds to a halt. Posts become slower. Your partner is writing a lot per post, but there's not much you can actually reply to, so you focus mainly on your character's emotions, how their reactions relate to their backstory, etc etc. That is, until, one of you is burned out by the slow pace of the plot and the project dies before clearing a single page. This is an experience I've had many times and one I know is shared by many people. It's the main reason I started thinking about writing this post.
In my opinion, Advanced isn't really conducive to good writing in the context of roleplay. It's one thing if you're writing a story on your own and can control all of the interactions between characters to be as short or long as you need them to be, but it's something else entirely when you have another person there whose responses you must consider. You can't write their reaction for them, obviously, so you find yourself deliberating upon your character's reactions to every minute detail, inadvertently applying pressure unto your partner to match your count so they don't look like they aren't engaging with you. With this exchange, you miss out on subtlety and the ability for you and your partner to engage as "audience" members, as well as a lot of realism considering that people don't often think too deeply when in the middle of action.
To elaborate, I believe that in a roleplay a person is always splitting the role of a creator and audience member. They must create content in order to interest the other person and are then in a position to enjoy what their partner made for them. However, when writing in the long form, the latter role is downplayed significantly. What I mean by this is that it becomes difficult to write mysteries around your character that can get your partner asking questions and being surprised when your character does an action or develops in such a way that they didn't see coming. Both of you know every in and out of your characters' behavior by necessity, otherwise you would find it impossible to meet the criteria for Advanced. Not only does this often lead to a dull experience for reading and especially writing, you mess with the flow of the plot and roleplay alike because even simple conversations must be written around the idea that you need to either elaborate a lot on the simple sentences your character says or have them speak a lot in an unnatural manner to inflate the amount of content you can put into a post. This will obviously consume a lot of time, make it difficult to find motivation to post more often, and potentially lead your promising RP into an early grave.
Compare this to Free and Casual——in both cases, writers are compelled more to focus on characterization as they need only to progress the story forward and give their partner something to bounce off of. This makes it far easier to maintain a healthily flowing plot and write long term as you aren't constantly mentally prepping yourself for a huge slog in order to reach the more interesting section of a story. This obviously different in cases where each player has multiple characters to account for, but I often find that people focus on making an amalgam of casual posts or dialogue in order to achieve this goal.
Now, I'm not knocking anyone who prefers the Advanced category. What I'm more against is the idea that there is any superiority that comes with simply writing more. If you look at the descriptions for Free and Casual, you notice that they're described as places to go if don't "want to have to worry about standards" or want "some depth," whereas Advanced is where you go for "character development and extensive settings/lore" on account of its more extensive word requirement. This is a really dangerous mindset to instill as it builds a connection between quality and quantity. People should write well regardless of how many words they can cram into a post.
Please let me know what you all think, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Bump.
Hey there, I'm writing this up real quick to link back to this interest check. I've been looking for GMs who're interested in creating a world and hosting a story within it without the worry of having to keep track of several people to keep it alive. This will be my main priority if you decide to accept so you can feel confident that you'll always have a post a day at bare minimum from me.
That's about all I have to say, lemme know if anything in my interest check piques your fancy or if you've got any worlds you want to write a story around. Don't be afraid to suggest some obscure or out there concepts, I'm pretty open-minded. Plus, I'm willing to learn about fandoms I'm not familiar with for the endeavor. Though I will say that medieval fantasy is my favorite genre.
That's about the long and short of it. See ya in the DMs, hopefully.
That's about all I have to say, lemme know if anything in my interest check piques your fancy or if you've got any worlds you want to write a story around. Don't be afraid to suggest some obscure or out there concepts, I'm pretty open-minded. Plus, I'm willing to learn about fandoms I'm not familiar with for the endeavor. Though I will say that medieval fantasy is my favorite genre.
That's about the long and short of it. See ya in the DMs, hopefully.
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