Fabricant451

B!tchfest: a healthy release for our non-roleplay annoyances.

@Fabricant451

<Snipped quote>

That was a metaphorical comparison, you dunce. A very accurate one at that. (On second thought, you're either dumb or you purposely needling and misquoting an argument. I fully suspect that it's the latter. Weak and manipulative choice either way.) Also shows your ignorance that you agree on that, but completely miss the point when it comes to women's issues. Not only miss the point, but the point flies to straight to Saudi Arabia wearing a hijab 1,000 miles into the air and then blows up at impact.

@Tulpa

Well, I certainly don't think name calling is called for. That's a bit rude, isn't it? It also wasn't an accurate comparison considering all you're doing is deciding my views and stances for me. I don't support your side of things, therefore I must be the person that goes 'All Lives Matter'. I don't think the things people protest and shout about are as important as they claim they are, so clearly I must miss the point of women's issues. Women are not always victims. Women's issues are not somehow more important and aren't always exclusively about women.

Excuse me for not thinking that women aren't equal in the society I'm part of. That must make me ignorant. Or privileged. Or some buzzword. You're not even attempting to educate or talk with me; you'd much rather talk down to me and exclaim how I don't get it because I have different views on the situation. Because you 'don't have time'.

This is exactly why people say there's no point in arguing with people like you. Not you specifically. People like you. It's a metaphorical comparison.

Got it. So you don't believe that systemic harassment and sexism is harassment and sexism.

I don't believe that anonymous sock accounts on Twitter or social media going "i'm gona rape u" or "i'm gonna kill u if u censor my thing bitch" is a credible threat or real harassment. It's trolling. It's base level trolling. It's the shit that the 6 o'clock news 'reports' on in order to scare parents. You probably wouldn't think it was anything either if, say, a male was given the same threat. If a threat is credible, it wouldn't be broadcast for everyone to see and if people felt truly threatened by it, they wouldn't broadcast it to their support chamber with big letters saying "SEE? THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING TO EVERYONE IT NEEDS TO END".

That's called feeding the trolls.

I believe that sexism and harassment are sexism and harassment. But the kind of threats that happened during the whole GG shit were empty and more indicative of general level of online maturity rather than some kind of sexist agenda. Doxxing is a really bad thing, but both sides took a glee in doxxing the other - and that's harassment. And that I did and do take issue with. And only serves to show why I ride the fucking fence.

You do not understand the concept of invalid arguments. It is within my right to dismiss invalid arguments. Invalid arguments are not real arguments and are not worth any form of discussion other than to point out their fallacy. You are not arguing. You're just spouting hyperbole.

I've said my position like three times now, but it doesn't count because it's invalid. My arguments, such as they are, are invalid because I 'don't get it'. Maybe I don't. But you're clearly not interested in changing that. I truly regret being sarcastic to you, because turns out you can't take a joke. Not my best, but can't all be winners.

Funny you bring up hyperbole, though, since that's what got us here. You're not willing to see my side as having any merit. Because I'm wrong, my views are wrong, and I'm racist and sexist and misogynistic and all the -ists. 'If the shoe fits' or something, right? But please tell me I'm wrong for not wanting to be part of a community that will stand up for someone just because they're a woman no questions asked, and sweep their shady and morally wrong past under the rug because they're a 'victim'. Tell me I'm wrong for condemning people that mock and genuinely despise people that have identity issues or have strong beliefs. Tell me I don't understand because I'm stupid enough to realize that both sides are hurting their own cause more than they realize.

Tell me how I should feel.

I don't side with 'the enemy' simply because I don't stand with you. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

I thought we were making progress. Reaching an understanding. But I guess not. You can still come to my birthday party though.

By the way, you're a fucking weeaboo, mate. Sad but true.

Hey, leave Tsukune alone. Weeb Lives Matter.

Retrocausality

@Mr Allen J There are different kinds of bitchy girl. There doesn't have to be just one.

_{victoria is my spirit animal}

B!tchfest: a healthy release for our non-roleplay annoyances.

First of all, my post wasn't even about you. I already told you that. Secondly, it could not have been directly towards anyone. You have to be a very specific type of person in order for my post to apply to you. The fact that you feel to personally about it speaks volumes to me about your personality, and I'm honestly not surprised.

@Tulpa

It doesn't apply to me. Not in the manner you think it does, anyway. I feel about it the same way I feel about anything else. Ambivalent.

You care enough to write out this essay to me, so I feel obligated to form some sort of response to you. The thing is, my emotions from my past posts have already passed and now I'm in the burn-out phase of it all. I'm burned out of this world, of everything. I'm young, but I'm already tired of fighting this fight. Because when you do, it often feels like it's you against the world. That everything is established against you. People may not speak their hatred for you in public, but the thing is - is that they will go out of their way to make sure that you never succeed at life. It worked.

What fight are you fighting here? I'm genuinely curious. Because it's coming off as a tad bit overdramatic.

So rape and death threats are "nothing" to you?

Yes, when they are not actual threats at all and just posturing. I'm not going to take a death threat on Twitter of all places as a legitimate threat.

~~~

*Phew!* Did I get them all? Probably not.

So you're just not interested in having any sort of discussion. That's really all you had to do instead of being all dismissive of everything. Way to prove the point.

You somehow wrote nine paragraphs without saying anything, really.

I said that both sides of this current culture war, and I use that term with a lot of finger quotes, are in the wrong and complete each other.

I'm not even sure what your point is supposed to be, other than validating and propagating GamerGate as something other than what it is.

GamerGate is a boogeyman now. It wasn't. But it is now. It was never supposed to be this anti-women thing. The trolls on both sides turned it into that and now it's a boogeyman. GamerGate before it became twisted was stupid to begin with and only became more and more idiotic as it became a catch-all for 'people that hurt my feefees'.

Do you not like my mouth words? You can try and be the Switzerland if you want, but it doesn't really work like that. Especially with something as notorious and well-known as this, and already impossible coming from a biased source.

I'm pretty Switzerland in the sense that I think both sides, let's say pro and anti GG since we're on the topic, are wrong. Initially I sided with GG because yeah, sure, journalistic integrity is something you want if you want to be taken seriously as a journalist and also because games 'journalists' acted like babies towards their target audience. But when I saw it start to be full of people using it to sling shit at people - and not just angry gamers towards women, but the supposed professionals towards their readers - I stepped away because no good would come of it.

Once the culture war of 'sjw' and...fuckin I dunno what the other side calls themselves so let's just say 'mras' started I didn't pick a side because one side was full of whiny self-entitled cunts and the others were going about the social justice thing completely the wrong way. As a queer woman of color I hated that people felt like they needed to speak for me and stick up for me, but I also couldn't stand the other side just using this whole thing to stroke their beards and flex their 'moral superiority' while making fun of certain people. One side isn't inherently better than the other and both sides are just constantly fueling the other's fire.

So yeah, I stayed out of it because I'm god damn near thirty and I don't have the patience for a bunch of young adults shouting at each other. This isn't the way to get people talking.

I actually think this is a personal issue to you. You already told me that you were a member of GamerGate. So you must feel targeted, and want to make something look less shitty than it is.

I only ever feel targeted when I'm actually targeted. Which doesn't really happen like...ever. I supported the idea of GamerGate at first, yes. I'll admit to that. But I stopped when it became obvious that 'ethics in video game journalism' was no longer the point. Video game journalism is a stupid hill to plant a flag on when most video game writers are just bloggers and video games are a hobby, not a fucking moral crusade.

I sense guilt in your post.

Guilt over getting involved in this perhaps, but in for a penny in for a pound. That's on me and my nature.

I sense some semblance of empathy, also. I can feel the connections being made, but not quite. I think a large part of it is wanting to point the fingers outward, rather than inwards and blaming others for the problems.

Well I'm certainly not gonna blame me for the 'culture war'. It doesn't and hasn't affected me. I'm not in a position where it WOULD affect me in any way. I'm not on Twitter or social media. I don't work in a field that uses either of those things and I have a rather private home life. I support the rights of my fellow humans, I support equality, I think a lot of people get hung up on inconsequential things which winds up hurting their cause in the long run. But when I discuss these things with people, I do it without getting emotionally involved because I'm NOT emotionally invested. Because it hasn't affected me and there are more important issues in my life.

You try to be the Switzerland in the situation, but in reality it's victim blaming. That may sound like harsh wording, but that's essentially what it is. Despite trying to place the blame on both parties (which is already in presumptious position to take,) special emphasis is placed on others. Us vs. them, and the special emphasis you place on the other side of the fence shows which side you are on.

Victim blaming? I'm not blaming anyone, other than the people that make their entire identity and personality about being oppressed or in shouting down the 'feminazis'. The blame IS on both parties. No one on either side is blameless. Which side do you think I'm on? Because I don't stand with the side that gets off on laughing at people with identity issues and I sure don't stand with the side that thinks the best way to bring women up is by bringing others down.

I can understand that position. I think know where you are coming from, and why you felt the need to write that out. I gained some understanding of you as a person. I don't look down on you as much as you think I do.

I don't think you look down on me? But you honestly should, I'm a terrible person.

Regardless, your post had a whole lot of words yet very little to say. You obviously know the shitty things that GamerGate has done, and want to distance yourself from that movement. I think there is little I need to repeat to expose the already exposed when it comes to the harassment and the breach of people's human rights. I think you know.

I know shitty things the other side has done as well. Hence my point about both sides being made for each other.

I know you are female. You can be a woman and also a misogynist. You must realize what you defending. There is no need for me to say it.

I'm not a misogynist. I'm not defending GamerGate as it existed or currently exists. I'm not defending the SJWs or the anti-SJWs. I hate the acronym 'SJW' even and only use it here for lack of a better way to describe them. I believe in equality. I don't believe that policing language is the right way to go about it. I don't believe mocking people and being self important fucks is helping anybody other than the individual. One side is a bunch of sharks just waiting for the fish to fuck up so they can pounce and make response videos pointing out how stupid the sjws are. The other side likes to play the victim card first and double down on it even when called out on things. This is a generalization, yes. At some point all screaming and yelling does is make people invest in earplugs.

I say 'Black Lives Matter.' You are the type of person who says 'ALL lives matter!'

I am fucking not. I don't support BLM. All Lives Matter is for assholes that miss the point.

That person is still a racist, no matter how many "black friends/cousins" they have. That in itself shows that you are an illogical person that would be nigh impossible to get through - let alone through the internet.

I actually don't have many black friends. My best friend growing up was white. I had black friends, though, but half of them are dead now and the other half wouldn't recognize me anymore anyway. They'd probably hate me because I sold out. Got out. Cousins, yes. But I don't see them often. I'm not a racist, either. I'm actually quite easy to get through to. All it takes is actual discussion or some quality shitposting. Coming at me with accusations and shit isn't the way to do it.

I pretty much have to explain the entirety of feminist theory to you, history of women, etc, etc. I can't do that - not here. What I suggest is go to your bookstore and go to the women's section. Just pick up a book about feminist theory and women's issues. Read, read, read. Besides, aren't bookstores nice places to visit? They are always comfy and they feel nice.

Or I could just go down to a community college and enroll in a female studies course and get the same experience only with more eye rolling.

If you expect me to meet you in the middle, it's not going to happen. I cannot agree with the concept that women's issues don't even exist, especially faced with such weak and emotionally manipulated non-arguments presented to me here.

Women's issues do exist. As do men's issues. As do trans issues. Human issues exist. I never said that they didn't exist. Just that women don't have it as bad as some people let on.

But thanks for you honesty. I can appreciate that, how you opened up a bit here. I'm not totally unreasonable, but there's needs to be some semblance of reason in the first place.

I think I'm being more than reasonable when I say that 'equality is important' and 'this current cultural war is fucking bonkers' and 'women aren't in a terrible position in the modern first world' and 'GamerGate is and was dumb' and I thought I was being more than reasonable when I said "It's good that you care about these issues."

Retrocausality

I dunno if it was my love of the inspirational material or whatever but I may have just totally looped the fuck out of some Syd Matters and turned in a CS.

I just

I really like the inspirational material and also I wasn't playin' when I said I could become the Victoria I was always meant to be but hopefully the character isn't just that because that would be super embarrassing.

Roundabout way of saying I totes turned in a sheet and now I'm gonna do thangs.

Retrocausality

I saw the LiS comparison so I can't stay away

Finally I can become the Victoria I was always meant to be

Wild and Free

Still interested, just wondering if our character has to be an outlaw or if we could be on the other side

Western Themed Rp Interest Check

Sure

B!tchfest: a healthy release for our non-roleplay annoyances.

I'm not the one calling you a crazy feminazi, I just don't like hyperbole. I'm a feminist myself. I do, however, live in a world where rape and sexual harassment isn't socially acceptable and is, in fact, frowned upon. But I also live in a world where people with the loudest voices aren't interested in talking to people and instead insist on proving their side by sheer volume. I live in a world where I've been considered a traitor to my race and my gender because I have differing opinions on the matter, such as not taking things like accusations at face value - because I've seen first hand how false charges fucks up people; and not thinking white people are evil. I've never seen anyone go around saying "Rape is fine" or anything outside of thinly veiled internet 'threats' that are about as serious as any given post on /b/.

I'm certainly not saying that sexual harassment and rape doesn't happen and I'm certainly not about to make light or fun of women and men who have gone through that; my post had everything to do with hyperbolic wording than it did anything else. Of course rape and harassment are issues, but they're not socially acceptable in any sense of the word and as a woman I haven't ever felt like I was being silenced or threatened for speaking out on things.

I'm not saying I'm for human rights but then focusing on women specifically, which with the wording would make one assume one feels only women are human, which is not a rhetoric anyone should be preaching. GamerGate is done, it accomplished nothing except for creating giving bigots yet another platform and people to blame them like a boogeyman and in the process made both sides look like giant tools: the trolls and bigots for obvious reasons and the people blaming GG for everything because they kept doubling down on the victim card over nothing and profiting off of it.

The whole GamerGoobie thing was never supposed to be about "fuck women" but the people with the loudest voices on both sides changed it, and that applies elsewhere.

People are unwilling to have conversations on issues now, which is a tragedy. Instead of both sides of the issue meeting on neutral ground and having, you know, a conversation, one side is coming in guns loaded with anecdotes and bubbled anger while the other side just rolls their eyes, calls them an essjay, and thinks they are superior intellectually and morally because they have no actual argument or point of view other than what other people tell them; they 'showed the feminazis' by being just as bad, if not worse, in their crusade. Neither side really wants to listen to the other and it creates this whole vacuum of shit.

But even dismissing that whole thing from it, sexual harassment and rape is a much larger issue and it existed long before burgers 'n fries happened. No person is an object nor should they be looked down upon for their views, their gender, their sexuality, anything. And yet...both sides of this eternal debate are guilty of doing just that.

Even so, I'd still much rather live in this world than in one where rape and harassment are accepted socially. Because really, it only ever came down to me shitposting about hyperbole! I don't think you're a crazy feminazi, that's a stupid term and you shouldn't use it other than to mock it. This stuff matters to you, and it should, but you're going about it in the same way as the people you condemn constantly mock others for. I've no concern with your message, just in its presentation. I get it. Sometimes you just gotta rant, just gotta say it so badly, and yeah, it might feel good and it might get heads turned but the intended target(s) will only see it as a victory because it got you heated.

The thing to do is to open conversation, open a discussion, get people to see your side with reason and fact and dialog. Which is difficult because in most cases these people are so set in their ways that there's no reasoning with them and every instance of 'talking it out' ends up with 'see? women are overly emotional cunts' and 'see? men are sexist shits' and it's back to square one.

But then, what the fuck do I know I'm just an idealistic bitch who doesn't get involved.

Early Christmas Gifts

Well my initial concept was of a girl that isn't directly related to any of the more well known clans or characters or any of that stuff. She's an outcast in her family not because she's brooding or mean or edgy but because of her low chakra and difficulty in using ninjutsu. It's seen as an insult by her grandparents and siblings that she has to use Kote to compete with others who have a more natural affinity and ability. She's come to dislike using it as well but realizes that it's integral to her position. With her resentment comes more focus on taijutsu (or bukijutsu, undecided) using the Kote to enhance it. She's taken what she and her family sees as a handicap and attempted to turn it into a strength. Her resentment/rivalry of the hero or whomever stems from a predisposition to disliking people who flaunt their ability - assuming of course the rival is someone that DOES that.

That's sort of a rough initial concept but I can sleep on it and maybe drum up others.

B!tchfest: a healthy release for our non-roleplay annoyances.

@Tulpa Well it could've been directed at anyone. I don't know how things are in the world you described so I just wanted to make sure everything was cool.