Lord Wraith

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

<Snipped quote by TimeMasterX>

Problem being that old shit doesn't really exist on Amazon (2014, so old) and lack of money just makes me buy volumes.

Though right now I have Planet Hulk coming (I've seen the movie, read World War Hulk. Now for the main event) and X-Men Colossus - Gods Country coming.

@Sep

There are definitely ways to read old volumes without breaking the bank account depending on your morals of course.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

@Eddie Brock Says the guy who has been writing the Peter Parker/Mary Jane/Gwen Stacy love triangle for half a decade.

But I agree on the progression front: it's maddening to see the same stories rehashed over and over again. Plus it holds both Marvel and DC back. There's an endless cycle of promising young characters brought through (remember when the Young Avengers were a thing? Gravity?) that end up on the scrap heap because the older characters will never be allowed to age out for fear of the new ones not catching on. If Marvel had any cajones, Bucky would have stayed Captain America, Steve would have stayed dead, and old, grey-haired men over at DC would stop forcing Barry and Hal onto people that grew up with Kyle and Wally. (And I say that as a fan of Hal Jordan)

@Morden Man

I honestly believe we're at a point now where they could do almost (and this probably isn't the right word for it but) 'period' issues or annuals that allow fans of say Steve to get that Cap fix while Bucky or Sam are currently holding the shield. Or hey since Batman has like two or three monthlies why not have Gordon as Robo-Bunny-Cop Batman in the self titled series while having Detective Comics set earlier with Bruce under the cowl. Time is so malleable in comics anyways I don't see why this would necessarily be a hard feat to accomplish. Look at how much DC is milking out of this Batman and Robin Eternal series.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

@Lord Wraith, that is a lovely hypothesis about the Death/Return of Superman, and I only wish it had been in the writers' minds when they conceived the story. If that story were to be rewritten today with that message at heart, I could grow to love it, but I can't love it in its current form as an obvious sales gimmick.

As for Jason, I'm cool with him coming back simply because Under the Red Hood is such a great story. Someone finally takes Batman to task for never doing what needs to be done, according to some, and putting Joker in the dirt. What I care less for is that they felt obligated to keep Jason around once that story had run its course, eventually neutering him so he could come back into the Bat-fold.

@Eddie Brock

Well the story was obvious a sales gimmick, but I think the ideal might be there if you do some digging into the Man of Steel's creators. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were both children of Jewish immigrants so it's fair to say the religious imagery may not be accidental.

But yes regarding Jason you hit the nail on the head. Under the Red Hood is a good story, but I don't know if it necessarily needed Jason. Jason does add a lot to the story but I'm getting off course again. Like you said, there was no need to keep the character around and definitely no need to redeem him. At least Pre-Flashpoint Jason was still fairly antagonistic but as of the New52 he's almost unrecognizable. I've never understood why his fandom grew so rapidly.

But as Blue Demon already pointed out, the audience for comics has significantly widened especially over the past few years and as such DC has had to make its characters appeal to a new audience something that I hate to say it, Marvel for the most part has been significantly better at over the years.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

I'll post in a few hours eventually, still got a half finished Nightcrawler Batman post in my notepad that needs to be touched up and finished.

@Dawkins

Yeah, what they said.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

Ditto for Jason's murder.

@TimeMasterX

I feel like Jason's murder was highly effective at the time it was done but I honestly hate the fact that they resurrected him. I get that 'no one stays dead in comics' but I really though Jason being dead was great because he served as a warning. Now that's undone, same with Damian's death. It's well known I hate Jason but likewise it's also known that Damian is one of my favourite characters (who I for some reason forgot to name yesterday...) but I really feel that Damian coming back from death undermines the effect it had when he died.

Now to go off on a slightly different tangent, I don't think Superman coming back from death undermines it at all. This is because I see Superman as a Christ or Resurrection figure. And I know I'm not the only one who sees him this way, numerous media go out of their way to ensure they put the symbolism in your head. Heck 'Jor-El sent his own son to Earth to save its people' sounds awfully familiar. The 'S' on Superman's chest doesn't stand for 'Super', it doesn't mean 'Hope' in some alien language. It means 'Savior' because Superman came to save us from ourselves. So for that reason, I think Superman rising from his grave, rejuvenated and conquering death reinforces his themes as opposed to undermining them.

And hey if you want to run with the 'Hope' theme instead, Superman coming back just shows that 'Hope never dies.'

Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

@Edgey Ah okay. I'm not aware of too many other banned profiles but I was under the assumption it was the norm to get the shame banner.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

@TimeMasterX The worst part is there's no reason for the Robins not to be written like that. Dick is one of the world's best acrobats even at 12, plus who knows what other skills he could pick up at the circus? Knife throwing, slight of hand etc. Jason was born and raised in the streets and can hold his own on top of being street savvy. Tim is a genius and a potential Olympic level athlete before working under Batman. At least two out of three of the above determine Bruce Wayne is Batman without help. There's no reason for them to play 'Sidekick in Defense' other than plot demands it most of the time.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

I would probably boycott any future Batman films if Robin went the way of Hit-Girl. I honestly don't see anything appealing about a violent, crude, foul mouthed and clearly psychologically damaged child. Mindy is literally a brain washed child soldier, we're Batman to do that to Dick, Jason, Tim etc I would have a very hard time seeing Bruce as a hero. I understand that Batman is at war but at the heart of it he does care for his boys. I would argue that Big Daddy does not care for Mindy since he essentially stole her away from her mother so he could live out his own personal fantasy by transforming her into Hit-Girl.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

Superman even has a super powered freaking dog.

@Sep

Supergirl has a cat and a horse who sometimes turns into a man and romances her.
_{I don't write this stuff.}

But yes DC is far more fond of adding legacies than Marvel is. In recent years though DC has pulled back on them thankfully but they're still rather common. Batman is obviously the most notorious example and in my opinion the one that suffers from the least amount of updating. That said in the New 52 at least Dick and Co aren't quite as young. At least I don't think Dick was made into Robin at age 12 anymore (or at least I'm hoping not). I recall reading at one point that Batman went through his three Robins in about five years and if we say Dick is anywhere between 18 and 21 he would have been at least 13 to 16 when he first became Robin so how much of an improvement that is can be argued.

The New Frontier: A Marvel/DC One Universe RP

I'd like to pose a question to the group for discussion:

Are teenage/child sidekicks a dated concept? Characters such as Robin were originally introduced to comics in order to give younger readers someone to relate with, but characters such as Spider-Man have proven that a young hero doesn't need to be a sidekick in order to succeed. So my question then becomes, if Batman or Captain America were introduced today would Robin/Bucky still exist?

Media such as the MCU Movie Captain America: The First Avenger have displayed an updated take with Bucky being Steve's friend growing up and an ally in war without having to dress in a costume. Likewise on Arrow we've seen two interpretations of Speedy/Arsenal with neither being necessarily a young sidekick but merely younger than Oliver and thus taken under his wing. Both Roy and Thea as presented on Arrow could handle themselves but benefit from Oliver's guidance.

So what are your thoughts?