Male, 33 years old. (I'm even more dead than before.)
Likes (other than writing and roleplaying): I'm into all genres of music. I love to cook. I love the outdoors, and walking through the park near my house. (Yes, really.) I read a lot of thriller/mystery novels. And I usually watch seasonal anime. (Or cooking shows. Because Western Media provides even fewer things that are worth watching.)
But as for my many other neglected hobbies, I've played basically every sport. (Soccer and Bowling being my favorite of the bunch.) And I'm trying to play more video games. (Going through my never-ending Steam library.) Plus, I've dabbled in making electronic & metal music, and I used to play a number of instruments. (Guitar, French Horn, etc.)
@Xandrya Well I can't say what you did or didn't believe, when you're younger it's sort of hard to really have any perception on life. Religion doesn't really mean much to most kids, because they just don't know better. Their beliefs are heavily influenced by the love or hate toward their parents. Though I don't think judging either/or if nothing is actively hurting society. I find Catholicism has many problems, but it's problems with the people themselves.
But if you're someone who actively wants to fight the fight against religion, Muslims/The Quran are the actual problem. I'd like to see more religiously motivated atheists not tuck the tails between their legs and be just as venomous, if not more so. Though I rarely see such proclamations. But that's just me spit-balling.
Though if I can point out a correction, America absolutely did get founded on Christian ideals. (I don't disagree about gay marriage being progress, though the fabric of american society is hanging by a thread from the slippery slope fallacy becoming tangible and running rampant. There's so many examples I hope I don't need to spend time clarifying.)
@Xandrya I didn't want to jump in this discussion, because I didn't have much to add. But if I can answer that through a religious lense. Honestly, the idea of the corrupt nature of church or not feeling a presence there. Could easily go hand and hand. Not to preach, but you usually can't find something if you never intended to seek it. (You admit you only went to please your family. You never wanted to seek spiritually.) Church isn't how you have a relationship with god, at least as Christian's are concerned...
And on a non-religious answer, in modern times Christianity has given far more than it's taken. Especially through charities. I've always seen this online about Christian's barging into people's life with ideas. But I really don't see Christians doing any of barging in people lives, often I see atheists doing it. I certainly find many atheists struggling to be consistent with their dislike of religion when anything other than Catholicism is brought up. Not stating anything personal mind, but comments like "god has to be uncaring because rapists exist/god can't exist because bad things happen" are so bog-standard teenage atheist philosophy 101, that you can't get anywhere discussing religion, spirituality, faith and whatever else.
Aspartame used to give me a migraine. Diet coke especially. Clearly not anymore, since all I drink is diet pop now. But I've seen some baffling arguments against diet pop. There's an asinine argument saying it would make you gain weight faster than normal pop, because it assumes the person drinking is such a fat stupid bastard. They'd think 0 calories in pop means they can eat even more food now and that's how they get fatter. <.<
I could go on forever on dieting and how badly the internet will fuck you up, if you take half the shit it says trying to give you advice seriously...there's a fucking video about like starving yourself "fastening" for days and days at a time to get "healthy" weight loss. >.>
@Traps My only advice, is time management shouldn't be done unless you're absolutely committed to it and have it be a part of your roleplays theme.
For example, I once did a slice of life werewolf roleplay that used only the concept of changing days and nights, so after a certain amount of posts, it would just shift into a day/night phase (with obvious indications when it would take place) with nothing in between and it changed who the characters were. There was a little more than that, but nothing more complicated than that. It made a clear difference in the roleplaying.
Standard roleplays that can do without time crunches, that don't really have a narrative purpose, are probably best without them.
@Odin Since I saw a "loser" in there. (and Jesus everything else under the sun, now that I've read through it.) I've honestly never even seen children call each other "loser". While we're getting off into the weeds. May I point out that you've given me vague nonsense about my writing being hard to digest. Without giving any examples. Yet, you've already proven you're not writing coherently to make a case for your own arguments.
Why did you separate quotes that many times? When arguing, when you weren't concise and it wasn't remotely necessary and just makes it harder to read? (Rather unpleasant actually.) You can't talk about my writing, when you admit that you didn't understand my questions and your own writing is vitriolic and horribly unfocused.
I did my best to limit all the clutter, but you clearly can't talk to people without being disrespectful. So, I'll leave this as my last post...
Well, good news. Death is inherently emotional and personal and not at all financial which is the way you're putting it forth
I've already shown that you're incorrect. If death didn't cost anyone any money, which is literally what you're saying. The funeral business would not exist. Let alone the whole hundred billion dollars of just dealing with suicide attempts alone. That's money and productivity being wasted on something that isn't necessary.
Have you been terminally ill? ? If so, congratulations, you know how it feels.
I think that the 'person who knows what they are talking about' is the patient themselves. Whether you agree with euthanasia or not is up to you - I certainly see why one would be against it but strongly disagree.
Claiming all suicide is bad is just willfully ignorant.
Those statement in bold, among many other things you said are contradictory. You can't recognize a gray area, if you don't differentiate what's acceptable and what's not. And demonize those who have that opinion as ignorant and stupid.
So despite all this talk about being a moron. You're tactically admitting that I'm correct by implying all suicide cannot be judged by anyone and is always a valid option if the person thinks so. (at least when we're talking about assisted suicide.) You haven't given me anything else. People aren't smart and some people are mentally ill and literally don't know what they're talking about. If someone is given a false diagnoses and gets depressed and kills themselves. Your argument is in favor of that happening, if no one can judge people who wish to kill themselves. (I've been talking about america law system and us enabling suicide, this whole time, by the by. Not like all my posts about it pointing that out matter...)
As for all this dutch stuff, you're making arguments I'm not even talking about or discussing. I don't want assisted suicide here in america or to legalize suicide here. But since you bring it up, is this really what you want? Because the dutch have an all time high suicide rate...is that something you're fine with? (Rhetorical question, not assuming or straw-manning anything. And I never did.)
Last year a massive 1,871 people committed suicide in the Netherlands, the highest number in the country's history, Statistics Netherlands announced on Thursday. That amounts to an average of five suicides a day in 2015.
"Allow dying for people's whose life is complete?" What the fuck? And hence, the slippery slope argument expands. Which is precisely why I'm against this. And I don't even have to call you stupid/special a dozen times in order to point out why. Because my argument stands on reason. (Also you keep bringing up that doctors don't like cost money or struggle with money...again couldn't be further from the truth.) Also I don't want to be like the dutch...
You never once stated before that you only just wanted assisted suicide. This is the first time, and it's also not a straw-man to ask, because you were previously vague in your statements and I just got through several people debating that. But now I get your point, you are simply defending the laws in the Netherlands you already have as viable and perfect without needs to make changes. Fine. Continue to eventually going down this path...
Helping someone end their life is morally and ethically complicated, and that’s reflected in the vague language of many countries’ laws, which has in turn contributed to confusion and court cases like Purdy’s. Some countries, like the Netherlands, explicitly legalize physician-assisted suicide in situations where certain criteria are fulfilled. Likewise, doctors in five U.S. states are legally permitted to prescribe lethal doses of medicine for patients who intend to end their lives. Belgium, with the world’s most liberal suicide laws, even explicitly permits euthanasia by lethal injection.
The laws of other places are not nearly so clear. In 2015, German lawmakers passed a bill allowing assisted suicide for “altruistic motives” but banning the practice when conducted on a “business” basis. In Switzerland, inciting or assisting suicide for “selfish motives” has been illegal since 1942, implying that doing so is only punishable by law if the helper makes personal gains from the death.
Former German Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries told the Associated Press that the German law “will open an era of great legal uncertainty,” and pointed out that it is unclear when a doctor behaves in “a business fashion.” If Switzerland’s vague law is any indication, however, right-to-die advocates will interpret the law in their favor. Since assisted suicide in non-selfish cases is not clearly regulated, the country has become a hot spot for the practice — not only among terminally ill Swiss citizens, but for anyone around the world hoping to end his life.
For most patients hoping to end their lives, traveling to a region that allows assisted suicide is much easier than changing the law at home. Thus suicide tourism was born.
The phenomenon has only grown and will continue to do so unabated, according to one team of Swiss researchers. They found that, between 2008 and 2012, 611 visitors came to Switzerland for the sole purpose of ending their lives. These people came from 31 different countries, but most hailed from Germany and the United Kingdom. The study authors write that “in the UK, at least, ‘going to Switzerland’ has become a euphemism for assisted suicide.”
Suicide tourism is not confined to Europe. The widely publicized case of Brittany Maynard, a 29-year-old with terminal brain cancer, brought assisted suicide into the public sphere in the United States, causing an eruption of debate over the right to die and the hassles the current patchwork of state laws produces. Maynard, a resident of California, was forced to uproot her family to go through with her plan to “die with dignity.”
“I met the criteria for death with dignity in Oregon, but establishing residence in the state to make use of the law required a monumental number of changes,” she wrote. “I had to find new physicians, establish residency in Portland, search for a new home, obtain a new driver’s license, change my voter registration, and enlist people to take care of our animals, and my husband, Dan, had to take a leave of absence from his job.”
Canada, for example, has introduced an assisted suicide law that specifically limits the practice to citizens and residents, excluding foreigners. It can be difficult to understand why a country would withhold medical care, but the tough ethical questions aimed at countries with liberal assisted suicide and euthanasia laws can be hard to handle.
Lawmakers must determine how severe a person’s condition must be before they can legally seek assisted suicide. Most associate the practice with terminal illness, but not all cases concern such an ailment. Comparing their findings to those in two earlier studies, the authors of the Swiss suicide tourism study said their research showed that doctors diagnosed an increasing proportion of neurological and rheumatic diseases among suicide tourists.
“This implies that non-fatal diseases are increasing among the suicide tourists and probably also among Swiss residents,” they wrote.
As assisted suicide becomes more common, an increasing number of cases will test the line between the humane and the unacceptable — a category that usually includes traditional, unassisted suicides. People are at a much higher risk for self-harm when suffering from mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and depression, for example, and the latter commonly afflicts those with serious, chronic illnesses. In an editorial concerning physician-assisted suicide, Dr. Morton Tavel, a clinical professor emeritus at the Indiana University School of Medicine, addressed the fine line doctors walk when navigating the law and individual cases.
“Although such laws are humane and sensible, they can be abused and result in wrongful deaths,” he wrote. “We physicians commonly encounter severely depressed patients without life-threatening physical maladies, who, on their own, might opt to commit suicide. … Obviously, in such cases a caregiver’s assistance in suicide would represent a serious disservice.”
For anyone that cares to read, there's a lot more I didn't put in along with all my other links.
If you felt that I made any moral judgement on you for your opinion on assisted suicide. Your vagueness didn't help in that matter. But I apologize, and clarify. You aren't morally bankrupt if you happen to feel that certain way.
But with how you spoke to me, can you tell why I don't remotely take your personal judgement on my character seriously or treat it with a bit of respect? You clearly never had good intentions and can't express yourself without ad-hominems. So why should I respect or consider your opinion of me or my writing?
All that shit you flung at me, but where did I do the same? (period, let alone in this conversation.) If you want to fight the enemy, you first need a reason for that enemy to exist. And if it's "disagreeing" with you. You can't pretend you allow others to disagree with you. I know you don't have an answer, to be fair, you don't need one either, but I won't treat you politely in future, if you won't grant me the same common curiosity.
NIVEA. Niet invullen voor een ander. That's not what I meant at all. I would've gone into depth about why your analysis (is it yours or did you just copy paste stuff?) on Dutch euthanasia laws was inherently flawed because you don't understand how it actually works but just parrot whatever you read without a second thought or counter-hearing.
My late grandfather passed a year ago of Alzheimers. The suffering he went through was not physical - no amount of pain relief medication would've helped him or us. The way he was living was not human-worthy. It sounds morbid but if I had been asked whether we should euthanize him, my answer would've been yes. But that's not how euthanasia works in the Netherlands (contrary to your/popular belief apparently). He himself and only he himself can give the okay to euthanize, and even then it's such a long process that the chance of him being granted the request before his natural death at the hands of this disease would've very slim.
I am not bringing this forth as a personal anecdote - I am using it to show you that pain is not always fixed by pumping more drugs into somebodies body. Something you do not seem to comprehend on a human level also is that when you are in a hospital 24/7, being pumped full of drugs just to perform pain management, you are already in the last stages of your life. Doctors don't move towards pain management at such a level if they haven't already done everything they can for you.
But, anyway, getting back to it - you lack the emotional understanding to comprehend what drives people towards these sorts of choices. You sound very ignorant when you say these things without consideration for why these people want to do things like this. You say that people don't even consider 'pain' to be a top priority. Okay, so? So fucking what? If I lost autonomy over my own life I'd probably wanna end it too. I'm sorry, I just don't really feel like sitting in a home for older people for the rest of my life waiting for it all to end. If I lose the ability to do what makes my life enjoyable, I'd probably want my life to end. There is so little to live for at that point.
You imposing the idea that pain is the only reason to euthanize is not only ignorant, your attempt to fall back on that same argument isn't really truthful too. If I had a disease that was incurable and made my life into 'stare at a wall simulator 2k17' I'd end it. With or without doctors' help, but preferably with so I can at least die with dignity. And these diseases exist.
I feel like almost all of that, was saying the exact same thing. But the thing in bold, is what I'll focus on. You may not be trying to just use a personal story to point out sheer lack of evidence on why all the failed suicides is worth the 300 billion dollars in cost and all the negative ramifications of assisted suicide and what it can lead to. All you said, was personal, emotional and nothing factual.
I've already pointed out multiple times, I've been suicidal before, so it's just outright disingenuous to say I don't know what it feels like to feel that way. Also the way YOU describe your scenario it sounds like you would push him into suicide with how your talking about it. "The way he was living was not human-worthy" what makes you or anyone decide that? Because that gets into slippery slope argument that leads people to killing people that are disabled. The "thing I parroted" was an argument done by someone who knows what they're talking about and just went through why "dying with dignity" isn't a viable argument. I wasn't imposing that pain was the reason to offing oneself, but you seemed to be.
"The state's “Death with Dignity Act Annual Report” for 2014 shows that the top reason is “losing autonomy” (Oregon Public Health Division 2015, 5). Concern about pain was not even the second or third reason: “Less able to engage in activities making life enjoyable” and “Loss of dignity.” It was ranked sixth out of seven, above only financial concerns, and included not only “inadequate pain control,” but also “concern about it.” These patients were not necessarily in uncontrollable pain themselves, however they were concerned about it (as are we all). But even that concern did not rank high on their list of reasons that they wanted to commit suicide. Even if the line drawn is unbearable pain, how can that be restricted to only physical pain? Who can judge that mental anguish is not unbearable pain? Or that economic distress (or anything else that causes anguish) is not unbearable pain?"
The idea that making assisted suicide legal, we somehow only be restricted to "unbearable pain" cases, is naive at best and delusional at worst. You want to make that legal? You're going to have to deal with the oncoming slippery slope that becomes "anyone who pays" maybe even "anyone over 18, because free care." maybe children or teenagers with disabilities.
Since I'll never get you to admit, your idea comes from emotion and nothing more. Can I at least grasp what type of suicide is "not bad" to you? You want suicide bombers to have a right to do it? People who jump of bridges and make their deaths public? Just assisted suicide? All suicide should be legalized and judged since all of it should be treated with the same? My point is, you want assisted suicide? You get the transgender communities suicide rate to maybe go up to well over 50%. You get people arguing in favor of killing people with down syndrome, or autism. You get people that die from diseases they were only told they have. Because you're arguing not for defending those that take their own lifes, but that all people should have a right to commit suicide. (and I assume that's what you want, since you're pro-abortion and correctly pointed out this the same, "this is inconvenient for me" so I have the right to eliminate the problem issue.)
I am a physician. Part of my job is to help people die in comfort and with dignity. But I do not want to help you, or your daughter, or your uncle commit suicide. You should not want me to. I urge you to oppose physician-assisted suicide: it represents bad ethical reasoning, bad medicine, and bad policy. I am going to concentrate on the first of these lines of argument. Ilora will take up the latter two.
We strongly support the right of patients to refuse treatments and believe physicians have a duty to treat pain and other symptoms, even at the risk of hastening death. But empowering physicians to assist patients with suicide is quite another matter—striking at the heart not just of medical ethics, but at the core of ethics itself. That is because the very idea of interpersonal ethics depends upon our mutual recognition of each other's equal independent worth, the value we have simply because we are human. Some would have you believe that morality depends upon equal interests (usually defined by our preferences) and advance utilitarian arguments based on that assumption.4
But which is morally more important, people or their interests? As Aristotle observed, small errors at the beginning of an argument lead to large errors at the end.5 If interests take precedence over people, then assisting the suicide of a patient who has lost interest in living certainly is morally praiseworthy. But it also follows that active euthanasia ought to be permitted. It also follows that the severely demented can be euthanized once they no longer have interests. They can also freely be experimented upon as excellent human “models” for research. It also follows that infanticide ought to be permitted for infants with congenital illness.
Many would see these conclusions as frightful, but this is not just a slippery slope. They all follow logically from arguing for assisted suicide on the basis of maximizing personal interests. So if you do not believe in euthanasia for severely disabled children or the demented, you might want to re-think your support for assisted suicide. At least if you want to be consistent.
People often argue that they need assisted suicide to preserve their dignity, but that word has at least two senses. Proponents use the word in an attributed sense to denote the value others confer on them or the value they confer on themselves. But there is a deeper, intrinsic sense of dignity.
Human dignity ultimately rests not on a person's interests, but on the value of the person whose interests they are; and the value of the person is infinite. I do not need to ask you what your preferences are to know that you have incalculable worth, simply because you are human. Martin Luther King said that he learned this from his grandmother who told him, “Martin, don't let anybody ever tell you you're not a Somebody” (Baker-Fletcher 1993, 23). This some-bodiness, this intrinsic worth or dignity, was at the heart of the civil rights movement.
It does not matter what a person looks like, how productive the person might be, how others view that person, or even how that person may have come to view herself. What matters is that everybody, black or white, healthy or sick, is a somebody. Assisted suicide and euthanasia require us to accept that it is morally permissible to act with the specific intention-in-acting of making a somebody into a nobody, i.e., to make them dead.
Intentions, not just outcomes, matter in ethics. Intending that a somebody be turned into a nobody violates the fundamental basis of all of interpersonal ethics—the intrinsic dignity of the human.
Our society worships independence, youth, and beauty. Yet we know that illness and aging often bring dependence and disfigurement. The terminally ill, especially, need to be reminded of their value, their intrinsic dignity, at a time of fierce doubt. They need to know that their ultimate value does not depend upon their appearance, productivity, or independence.
You see, physician-assisted suicide flips the default switch. The question the terminally ill hear, even if never spoken, is, “You've become a burden to yourself and the rest of us. Why haven't you gotten rid of yourself yet?” A good utilitarian would think this a proper question—even a moral duty.
As a physician who cares for dying patients, however, I am more fearful of the burden this question imposes on the many who might otherwise choose to live, than the modest restriction imposed on a few, when physician-assisted suicide is illegal.
Assisted suicide should not be necessary. Pain and other symptoms can almost always be alleviated. As evidence, consider that pain or other symptoms rarely come up as reasons for assisted suicide. The top reasons are: fear of being a burden and wanting to be in control (Oregon Public Health Division 2015, 5).
You may ask, “Why shouldn't I have this option?” And yet we all realize that society puts many restrictions on individual liberty, and for a variety of reasons: to protect other parties, to promote the common good, and to safeguard the bases of law and morality. For example, we do not permit persons to drive when drunk, or to freely sell themselves into slavery.
Paradoxically, in physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia, patients turn the control over to physicians, who assess their eligibility and provide the means. Further, death obliterates all liberty. Therefore, saying that respect for liberty justifies the obliteration of liberty actually undermines the value we place on human freedom.
[h3][u]My Very Brief Bio[/u][/h3]
Male, 33 years old. ([s]I'm even more dead than before.[/s])
Likes (other than writing and roleplaying): I'm into all genres of music. I love to cook. [url=https://imgur.com/a/Mvb1A5r]I love the outdoors[/url], and walking through the park near my house. (Yes, really.) I read a lot of thriller/mystery novels. And I [i]usually[/i] watch seasonal anime. (Or cooking shows. [i]Because Western Media provides even fewer things that are worth watching.[/i])
But as for my many other neglected hobbies, I've played basically every sport. (Soccer and Bowling being my favorite of the bunch.) And I'm trying to play more video games. (Going through my never-ending Steam library.) Plus, I've dabbled in making electronic & metal music, and I used to play a number of instruments. (Guitar, French Horn, etc.)
My 1X1 Interest Check: [url=https://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/175576-sleepingsilences-tavern-want-1x1-rps-please-come-in/ooc]SleepingSilence's Tavern (Want 1x1 RP's? Please come in.)[/url]
[hr]
Hope you have a wonderful day!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Vhh9p3I.png[/img]
<div style="white-space:pre-wrap;"><div class="bb-h3"><span class="bb-u">My Very Brief Bio</span></div><br>Male, 33 years old. (<span class="bb-s">I'm even more dead than before.</span>)<br><br>Likes (other than writing and roleplaying): I'm into all genres of music. I love to cook. <a target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://imgur.com/a/Mvb1A5r">I love the outdoors</a>, and walking through the park near my house. (Yes, really.) I read a lot of thriller/mystery novels. And I <span class="bb-i">usually</span> watch seasonal anime. (Or cooking shows. <span class="bb-i">Because Western Media provides even fewer things that are worth watching.</span>) <br><br>But as for my many other neglected hobbies, I've played basically every sport. (Soccer and Bowling being my favorite of the bunch.) And I'm trying to play more video games. (Going through my never-ending Steam library.) Plus, I've dabbled in making electronic & metal music, and I used to play a number of instruments. (Guitar, French Horn, etc.) <br><br>My 1X1 Interest Check: <a href="https://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/175576-sleepingsilences-tavern-want-1x1-rps-please-come-in/ooc">SleepingSilence's Tavern (Want 1x1 RP's? Please come in.)</a><br><hr class="bb-hr"><br>Hope you have a wonderful day!<br><br><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Vhh9p3I.png" /></div>
Member
RPM
Birdboy
xVampire3go
Antlers
Space Core
X Fiendfyre X
Zeus23
Nightwing95
BurnDaWitch
