[OOC] Arena FAQ/Advice

[Skallagrim]

how wins/lost works, how battles usually play out, and what are the tiers of characters?

@WarpedReality

Win/Loss is self-explanatory. Fights themselves are left to the combatants to work out the parameters unless it is a tournament, in which case the rules are preset and must be abided by. When engaging in a fight, most of us use the T1 Eden era or some variant of those rules to conduct our fights. See my signature of you want to learn more about T1.

Ranked matches require a judge to make sure that everyone is playing fair and to settle any disputes regarding actions/defense/damage by the characters in the fight. Judges rulings are final, although a second Judge may be called upon when things get really nit-picky so establishing the judges right away prior to the fight is important when you want to ensure quick resolutions that are fair.

Tiers for characters, such as they are, are fairly simple. Human, Enhanced, Moderately Powered, then Powered. Some use Godly as well but really? No one likes fighting at those levels much. Human and Enhanced are fairly simple to discern when comparing characters. Moderately powered and Powered are where most people get snagged up. So sharing CS's with your opponent and negotiating power levels is pretty much standard.

Most of us have scalable characters which can slot into the enhanced, M-P and Powered ratings easily enough depending on whom we are facing. Others have specific characters set for each power rating.

When building a character, if there is a question, you can always submit it in the GuildHQ thread and ask for advice on how to better make the character fit into the arena framework for characters, although there is no established CS, there are important elements that have to be addressed. Powers (explained in detail), equipment (explained in enough detail to make clear what it can and cannot do.) Some backstory if you are looking to make a persistent multiverse character that can be in multiple storylines and places. Make the backstory accessible to others who may want to build upon something so there is a natural rivalry or alliance.

Have Fun.

[rawkhawk64]

Yeah, I've been wondering about tiers of characters as well. Like, how do you rank them based on power so that they don't face someone too strong/too weak? Also, how would a character who can summon work? I have a Deity-class (self-ranked, mind you) character who has the capability of summoning other powerful beings to fight for him (provided his foe can summon as well. If not, then he doesn't use them).

[LeeRoy]

@rawkhawk64
There is no uniform scale of power level. We actually have arguments about it frequently, though I personally use an incredibly complex system to grade my characters. There's this 10 tier system, the system Skallagrim explained, and plenty of others between. A character you'd call godly could be less than so on my scale, or greater than. Y'see?

Trying to regulate this sort of thing is difficult because of how everyone sees their own character's abilities, and then the character's personalities come into play. A high tier character whose an incompetent martial artist fighting a character whose physically weaker but significantly better trained? It's totally up in the air.

The problems that emerge when trying to grade the characters on a scale is incredibly difficult.

[rawkhawk64]

@LeeRoy Makes sense. Now, how would a character who can summon work?

[LeeRoy]

@rawkhawk64 Summoning is up in the air for me, honestly. If it's ALL the character can do, they may as well have the summon there at the beginning of the fight. However, if they've got other abilities, I believe it should require a turn or two of charging before they can do it. Not a long enough delay to keep it from being totally inviable, but long enough to have a way to prevent them from doing it.

[ImportantNobody]

@rawkhawk64

You'd probably judge the power of all of the summons and the character themself compared to the power of the opponent to see if it's a fair match-up or not. This would mean the summoner would likely be a lot weaker of a character than the opponent. If not then there would be something very difficult about summoning like LeeRoy mentions.

[fourtimesnine]

Hi everyone! I'm new to the arena, so I don't really know how things work, and this seems like the best place to ask.

1. How exactly do you start/join/organize matches? I'm used to using Interest Checks, but I looked at a few and apparently that mostly goes on in the Chat and HQ threads. How does that work?

2. Do characters persist across roleplays? Again, I'm used to characters that are made for a specific RP, but a few things I've read here suggest otherwise.

3. Is there a place for story fights? That is, fights where the goal isn't for one character to win over another, but to write a story about the characters with the battle as part of the plot.

4. I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but for now, is anyone willing to RP with a newbie? Experience is the best teacher, after all.

[MelonHead]

Hi everyone! I'm new to the arena, so I don't really know how things work, and this seems like the best place to ask.

1. How exactly do you start/join/organize matches? I'm used to using Interest Checks, but I looked at a few and apparently that mostly goes on in the Chat and HQ threads. How does that work?

2. Do characters persist across roleplays? Again, I'm used to characters that are made for a specific RP, but a few things I've read here suggest otherwise.

3. Is there a place for story fights? That is, fights where the goal isn't for one character to win over another, but to write a story about the characters with the battle as part of the plot.

4. I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but for now, is anyone willing to RP with a newbie? Experience is the best teacher, after all.

@fourtimesnine

Hey there, yes this is the best place for these sort of questions.

1. There are two main methods, one is using an interest check to send out a general challenge (ideally with a character, an arena, and a fighting style mentioned so people know what they're getting into.) Then, once a compromise is made on character selection and everyone is happy, you can upgrade to an OOC/IC and get started. Oh, or if you simply want to join a fight you can look through interest checks and declare your interest in the normal fashion.

The second method is to send out a challenge in the ranked area or the Arena chat thread, which most of the ranked people tend to frequent. The same process as before will also take place, where you will decide on characters etc.

2. Completely up to you, the Arena does allow for multiple instances and therefore unless you've joined a specifically persistent world (the Multiverse for example, which pops up from time to time, or a tournament) every arena fight is a self contained story. So, if a character dies you don't have to make that 'canon.'

3. Hopefully every fight will be a story fight, it's a misconception that Arena isn't still predominantly about telling a story, it's just through the medium of battle. Still, if you favour strong story telling elements over the competition, avoiding ranked battles and going for unranked instead is the answer. In an unranked fight the rules are more flexible and with very little on the line people are going to be more applicable to story elements.

4. Depending on what sort of power (tier) you want to fight at I might be able to indulge you in an unranked battle to cover some of the broad Arena concepts if you want. Tier is a little subjective, but I personally don't stray over the 'high powered' bracket with my characters. Which is somewhat applicable to street/city level destruction. I'm more around the powered/low powered bracket, think Vampires, Werewolves, Cyborgs etc.

These are the two important threads for talking with Arena peoples.
Ranking Headquarters http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/79678-rpguild-ranking-headquarters/ic
Arena Chat Thread http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/78452-arena-chat-thread/ooc

[MelonHead]

It's also just occurred to me the FAQ thread doesn't even have a decent FAQ section, get on that Rilla, I feel like the same questions are being asked and answered.

[MelonHead]

Melons Arena Cheatsheet

Ye Olde Board of Tips and Tricks for the Arena

The Writing Side

1. Accuracy, thoroughness and coherency are your greatest weapons in the Arena, prettying these concepts up is difficult and comes with time. Try and ensure you’ve been accurate in your description of the scene, haven’t forgot to mention any important details, and most importantly read it through from your opponent’s point of view and made sure they can understand it.

2. KISS – The beauty of the T1 system is you don’t have to try and predict any number of an opponent’s moves and write out what if clauses for every eventuality. (Though you may want to pre-empt one or two moves to worry them.) Simply ensure that your character can logically pull out of a manoeuvre with a single statement of their actions if the unexpected ensues. For example, ‘John was ready to abandon his strike at his prone opponent if he instead made any sudden movements.’ Remember though, you only have so much time to work with, if you’re mid-swing it may already be too late.

The follow up to this is that in combat, the more moves you string together the greater the opportunity you're granting your opponent to interrupt and strike you at your most vulnerable. Try not to overcomplicate your post both for ease of reading, and also to keep your cards hidden and your character safe.

3. The CS is key, remember that what you throw into that CS and post in the introduction of a fight is all your character alone has to work with. If circumstances allow, you may be able to pick up one or two advantages from the scenery, but so can your opponent, so ensure your character is thoughtfully constructed and stick to that character throughout. Magic and abilities will be a major point of contention, so remember tip 1 in the construction and you’ll be alright, though a more complex CS construction walkthrough may appear in the future.

The Combat Side

At the risk of sounding condescending, these are some tips for actual combat I’ve picked up in my lengthy years (lol, 3) fighting in post-by-post. Many of these will be contentious, and yes, there’s probably a number of exceptions to every rule.

1. Match your character carefully, this means you should be aiming to fight opponents with a character roughly within your character’s limits. Remember, this is a beginner’s guide, and ensuring you get a beneficial match-up isn’t going to be possible in a tournament setting. Ultimately, avoid bringing a grounded melee character up against someone who can fly or attack effectively from range, because the experience will likely be frustrating and un-rewarding. Some may argue that this is a learning experience, but from what I’ve seen personally it always ends with an unsatisfactory fight.

2. Don’t Jump. No, literally, probably the most common mistake on which I’ve been fortunate enough to capitalise on a number of times (and seen capitalised on, I might add.) is people considering diving into the air (usually anime style) an effective move in combat. Unless your character can control themselves in the air (and change direction) this will probably end incredibly badly, and should be avoided at all costs. Keep both feet on the ground, you can move your body freely and dodge better. Ironically acrobatic ‘speedsters’ should particularly look to avoid jumping in the air, as they tend to be at their most vulnerable.

3. Be careful with melee combat, melee combat is by far the most difficult skill to master in writing combat, especially if you’re like me with scant access to swords and spears and people who know how to use them. Read up on some of the basics of real combat before trying to use a sword, it helps a lot. Fighting hand to hand is somewhat easier, but try to dissuade yourself from flashy movie style martial arts.

4. Don’t spin around. I’ve only ever made this mistake once and it caused me more heart ache than a sick puppy (and I actually had my character spinning to generate centrifugal force). Your opponent will capitalise on it, and without the power of meta-gaming at your fingertips most characters are going to be shit outta luck.

5. Treat the Arena and its combat like an even bigger Arena. No, seriously, this is a contentious point but I would generally recommend imagining every battle like a gladiatorial contest. You’re attempting to make real gritty combat entertaining, you know what Gladiators seldom did? Tried to stab their opponent in the face the moment the battle started. If you try for deadly attacks early into a fight your opponent is –highly- likely to find any excuse to avoid it. Honestly, as the fight tends to work on an honour system of give and take you should try and wear an opponent down before going for any killing blows.

OOC Shiz

1. First rule, be respectful to your opponents, and I mean this in IC as well. For some strange reason (and I’m sure I’ve been guilty of this in the past, though I’ve been working on it.) Arena denizens have a bad habit of insulting the person behind the character in fights. They know exactly what they’re doing, no one is fooled, if you find yourself typing ‘Couldn’t quite believe the stupidity of blocking that move with’ you’re probably not in character anymore. This is a fine line to tread, and may seem trivial, but I’ve seen some Arena fighters who other people (not me, I have authority issues) have called respected and experienced essentially come to verbal blows over this shit. Not even joking.

2. Arguments will happen. If it’s an unranked fight, try and look past the conflict and compromise for the greater good of both of your entertainment and enjoyment. If it’s ranked, seek a judge as soon as possible, an unbiased reading is the fairest and most effective way to clear up any issues. I’ve argued until my fingers have metaphorically bled, and honestly I have no idea why, this is the freaking internet. No one is likely to admit their wrong doing in a ranked Arena battle, so have a judge mediate.

[fourtimesnine]

@MelonHead

Thanks so much, your answers are really thorough and helpful!

An unranked battle would be great. I'd be happy with the powered/low powered bracket, although I'm not familiar with vampires or werewolves specifically - my tastes tend towards medieval fantasy, sci-fi, superhero, etc. What kind of characters/setting would you want to have?

Edit: Just saw and read your cheatsheet, think it's an awesome resource.

[MelonHead]

@MelonHead

Thanks so much, your answers are really thorough and helpful!

An unranked battle would be great. I'd be happy with the powered/low powered bracket, although I'm not familiar with vampires or werewolves specifically - my tastes tend towards medieval fantasy, sci-fi, superhero, etc. What kind of characters/setting would you want to have?

Edit: Just saw and read your cheatsheet, think it's an awesome resource.

@fourtimesnine

In unranked fights I prefer my fights to be conductive to a story, so I tend to insist on characters from roughly similar universes. If you have a character in mind I can find my best character to match them, or I could link you to my character deposit and you could pick a character from there you think you could match.

My character deposit http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/79934-people-trapped-in-a-giant-melon/ooc

[fourtimesnine]

@MelonHead

Thanks! Do you think this character could match Anna? I'm sorry, I know this CS is way shorter than yours, but I didn't know what else to write. If you want, I can try to elaborate later.

Joel

Joel
Age: 5 - 10
Gender: Not applicable, but he uses male pronouns
Species: Clay Golem. A golem is a creature made entirely of inorganic matter and animated by magic.

Appearance

Plain

Wearing Rock Armor

Joel is about 7 feet tall, and entirely made of clay. His features are vague because he shifts them so often. The word "emet" is carved onto his forehead, and he protects it by wearing a metal helmet.

Personality: Joel was created to be a protector and defender. He is intensely loyal to his creator, and will protect him at all costs. He's also compassionate to innocents, and will defend them from harm. Most of the time, Joel is docile and mild-mannered. He has simple tastes, and is easily contented. However, he may fly into a rage when his creator is attacked, or when he perceives that a great injustice has been done. In this state, he loses most of his judgement and goes on a rampage against the offender. He's often perceived as slow and stupid, but despite his physical slowness, Joel is at least as intelligent as the average adult.

Physical abilities: He is incredibly strong, capable of lifting around twice his immense weight and shattering the earth with a blow. However, Joel is also quite heavy and slow, moving at around half the speed of a normal human. His senses are about equivalent to that of an ordinary human. Joel cannot speak, so he communicates using sign language.

Supernatural abilities:

Clay body - His body is made of malleable clay, enabling him to shapeshift into other humanoid forms. For example, he can make himself taller or shorter, or change the proportions of his limbs. It's very hard to damage him by physical blows - a blade will simply sink into the clay and get stuck in it, and if a large piece of the clay is separated from the rest, it will reattach and reform once it's in contact with the main body. However, the clay must be in contact - it's possible to scatter Joel into so many widely separated pieces that he can't pull himself back together.

Geokinesis - Joel can move clay, soil, rock, and even metal to an extent. He has a range of 200 meters, with his geokinesis being strongest at the center and diminishing proportionally. Within about 20 meters, he can move large amounts of earth rapidly at will. He can create tunnels or pillars, and change the shape of the terrain. Within about 50 meters, he can move things the size of small boulders, and fling them to further distances. Beyond that, his geokinesis is limited to slow movements or smaller particles. In dry conditions, Joel can generate dust clouds; in wet, he can manipulate mud.

Rock armor - Joel may use geokinesis to form a tough rock armor around himself, further shielding his soft clay body from harm. He always wears a tough metal helmet.

Weaknesses:

Emet - The word "emet" is carved onto Joel's forehead as the keystone of the magic sustaining him. If only the first letter is erased, so that it forms the word "met", the magic holding his body together will disappate, and he will die. However, if a different letter is erased, or if the first letter is incompletely erased, the word will reappear in a different location on Joel's body, and migrate back to his forehead later.

Backstory:
Joel was created by a Jewish rabbi to serve as a protector and companion during a time when he and his family were targeted by anti-Semitic sentiment. After the crisis ended, Joel remained with them as a new addition to the family. Although he's quite content to keep serving the family, they have also encouraged him to live a life of his own and see the world.

[MelonHead]

People use the word Emet to describe outsiders in my current locale, pretty funny.

Anyway, that character is more than suitable, I'll set up a thread and send you a PM of it.

[Slamurai]

I'd like to ask a question, which I wrote about in an Arena IntCheck just recently:

So I'll be honest: I've always scoffed a little at the idea of an arena section. Not that I think it's silly or anything, but as a RPer, my focus tends towards narrative and story-driven scenarios and outcomes. I understand the gist of writing combat, but doing so in a competitive setting never appealed to me. Who's to say just what's permissible and what's not? What if it devolves into a 'who can bullshit the best?' battle? How do you determine Player X really hit Player Y, if they both have different mental pictures of the scenario?

So yeah - I'm curious as to how you enforce what flies in terms of hits and so forth.
Ex. Player A does some 'jumping downward slash' while Player B's back is slightly turned - who's to say Player B can't 'sense the attack coming and roll into a counter jab' ? How do you stop battles from becoming metagame BS fests? If players interpret the angles or arcs of hits differently in their mental pictures, how do you know what gets through?

And then you potentially have it worse when you factor magic and technobabble into the equation. "Oh no, that magic breath attack has no effect on my shield made of laminated windonium." Or, "I don't care what your backstory is, my char's will is stronger than ten thousand gigawatts, and no blade can pierce it!"

This is my cause for concern in the arena section in a nutshell. And, having not participated in it before, I've no clue how these things are handled.

[Vordak]

So yeah - I'm curious as to how you enforce what flies in terms of hits and so forth.
Ex. Player A does some 'jumping downward slash' while Player B's back is slightly turned - who's to say Player B can't 'sense the attack coming and roll into a counter jab' ?

@Aristo

There must be a logically sound justification to every move you make, so you can't do that just out of the blue. The only way Player B can say they 'sense' the attack without having supernatural senses as an ability in their character sheet is if there was a precedent for that set in the previous posts - say, for example, Player B had their back turned because they were in fact baiting the attack and closely listening to their opponent's approach.

How do you stop battles from becoming metagame BS fests? If players interpret the angles or arcs of hits differently in their mental pictures, how do you know what gets through?

@Aristo

You have to make sure there is no room for misinterpretation. But if such occurs, you can discuss it in the OOC. Can't say i haven't seen it happen - i certainly have - but this isn't too prevalent of a problem, especially since it can always be ironed out without much trouble.

Draw a stick figure picture if things get too tough - should last you for a while. :P

And then you potentially have it worse when you factor magic and technobabble into the equation. "Oh no, that magic breath attack has no effect on my shield made of laminated windonium." Or, "I don't care what your backstory is, my char's will is stronger than ten thousand gigawatts, and no blade can pierce it!"

@Aristo

That is why character sheets in the arena are always expected to have a detailed description of how exactly an ability functions and what results its use is expected to have.

If windonium is said to withstand the temperature of molten iron for a couple seconds - which would be at around 1600 Celcius - and the magic breath attack is a brief burst of 2000 degree fire, then the windonium shield is expected to work, but be heavily damaged in process. That's more or less how we deal with problem around here.

Backstory is not a relevant source for anything but a characters personal knowledge. If they've never seen a gun before and don't know how to fight against one, that's information related to their backstory. If they're a combat mage and they know what a fireball is, then that's backstory related info too.

Certainly, arguments are unavoidable in the long run, and sometimes, they are only resolved through the help of a third party's judgement - but they're not bound to pop up with every post you make, even in the most competitive of environments. And in the end, if you want to become the best of the best, just keep that all in mind and find strategies that work no matter what complications arise.

There's no such thing as perfect, and for how vast the possibilities are in roleplay combat, there is a certain price to be paid. As PvP oriented videogames must have constant patches and updates to not spiral out of control, we, also need to resort to OOC talk from time to time. So yeah, the most important rule of them all, i'd say, is to respect your opponent.

[Fang]

Okay, so I am not sure if this was addressed or not, nor am I aware if anyone is available to answer my queries, but:

Where does one post their character, and is it okay if a character sheet does not follow the cheat sheet you have provided?

I have also posted this in the Arena Chat thread. I apologize for any mistakes I might make in decorum. Forgive my newbie-ness!

[Dolerman]

Could I get a more detailed explanation on how 'prepped attacks' function in RP combat?@MelonHead@Skallagrim

[MelonHead]

Could I get a more detailed explanation on how 'prepped attacks' function in RP combat?@MelonHead@Skallagrim

@Dynamo Frokane

1. Any attack can be prepped, it requires you to mention your character 'preparing' an action in the previous post, though this usually refers to a magical spell, there's no reason why one couldn't take time with a shot, or pull the pin of a grenade, or a similar act to show that prior thought went into a future attack.

2. It should be visible, both in an OOC and an IC sense, to your opponent.

3. It comes with the price of either a lack of concentration or a pre-emptive warning to your opponent to dodge, simple attacks may be launched at the same time, but you certainly couldn't unleash complex magic or prep another ability simultaneously.

4. Being hit removes the most recent prep.

5. A prepped attack supercedes an unprepped defense, so upon landing it causes some damage, which increases depending on the number of prep turns that went into an attack.

6. Only one attack can be prepped at a time.

7. Defenses may be prepped in the same fashion.

There's probably more, but those are some of the fundamentals in regards to preps. Many of these things are flexible and may be changed to suit different contexts.

[Natsucooldude]

So i was looking at this forum and have been wondering, at what scope would the fights here happen? Are they exclusively one on one fight or would a skirmish with two warbands or even armies clashing be allowed.