Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by KoL
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KoL Knight of Lorelei

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While GMing, it's a customary thing to come across player problems where, no matter the solution you present, or the way you address it, you'll always be considered in the wrong.

For example, you post a comment on the OOC that gets misinterpreted by someone. Either they think that you are being too blunt, or outright sadistic, or that you are patronizing them. When you try to explain that no, they didn't get the meaning of what you said right (which is especially jarring when you use direct language to avoid misunderstandings), they come up with false arguments about you being intolerant and always trying to be on the right (some times appealing to straw man fallacy). Less mature players can actually dive straight for finger pointing and yelling, leaving no room for a civilized talk.

So, the question of this thread is: What do you do while GMing when you find yourself in this kind of scenario where either you are being taken as too harsh or patronizing, with no middle ground for a talk? In addition, how do deal with players that place you in this kind of scenario where no talk is viable? How tolerant are you of it?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Lady Absinthia
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To put it bluntly - I don't tolerate it. Rule one of any of my Rp's is Gm is God and Gm has final say in all matters. I will explain once. If that doesn't do it, I will clarify once and place a ~this is the end of the conversation~ note. If it continues, they are removed and I have the mods delete any problem posts if needed. Keeps it short, simple, and to the point. Rather kick one quickly and keep things moving than have the problem spread through out the rp and risk killing it.

Thankfully I have only had to kick one for such on this forum. I have had people leave an RP or ghost it after that ~shrugs~ But that happens in any RP. I have had issues before but my explain/clarify/done trifecta usually does it and we move on.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 3 yrs ago Post by Polymorpheus
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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Either they think that you are being too blunt,
Too bad for them. I like to think of myself as blunt, and too blunt works just fine for me.

or outright sadistic,
I'll take that as a compliment :p

or that you are patronizing them.
An answer to that would be to the effect of "no, but if that's what you think, you can feel free to go".

When you try to explain that no, they didn't get the meaning of what you said right (which is especially jarring when you use direct language to avoid misunderstandings), they come up with false arguments about you being intolerant and always trying to be on the right (some times appealing to straw man fallacy). Less mature players can actually dive straight for finger pointing and yelling, leaving no room for a civilized talk.

/kick
0 tolerance for that shit's my policy. I haven't GM'ed in public for a while, and not much on this site, but my general policy is that when people go that route, they can fuck off immediately. I initiate a policy where I ban the fuckers and say that while an explanation can be provided, the decision itself cannot be appealed. Go soft once and you're pretty much done.

It's a scenario unlikely to happen if you trust the fellow coming in and have a good background to work with in the first place. The more you know, the more you can steer from those folks or outright eliminate them upon arrival.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by NuttsnBolts
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A player should realise that it is your story, that you are only trying to help, and depending in how they take it you may need to address it further. Thankfully you can ban problem players from your roleplay in the edit topic section (or just ask a mod to do it for you), so you do have some grounds for control over those who lost all interest and simply want to ruin the roleplay for the group.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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#!: i'd like to see an example of what you're talking about. It always helps.

#2: I make it pretty clear that I have a zero tolerance policy regarding OOC drama. If you're going to give me lip, you'd better be doing it via pm.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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There is no shame to be had in being direct to a fault. Being so forward and explicit to the point people might think their feelings hurt really is better for everyone. There exists no room to be misinterpreted or misunderstood when you emphasize, consistently throughout I might add and not just in one specific case, that you are making an executive decision. Traditionally, I will negotiate with players or hear them out, but make a decision either way that favors the overall goal of what I am doing and the game I am running. Furthermore, coming predominantly from a tabletop realm, I will always side with the player who has the rules citation and defer to the official ruling on it; when there exists no such rule, I create a universal rule everyone is held to. Exceptions might exist in extreme circumstances, specific beats general, but those are few and far between with me.

It is transparency at its finest in this approach. No less, I take it even in the games I am a participant in. I will be as blunt with you as I can be to show exactly what I have in mind and why. I absolutely disdain politicking and playing instances of "Mother may I?". Roleplays are most often, at least here, among a group of people and with that group they wish to be roleplaying rather than arguing. Wasting more time on that puts everyone worse off.

As for being intolerant and trying to be right, they do have a point in my specific case. Either you are right or you are not right is my perception of things. Why? If I am the Game Master, how else could I be wrong unless I violated one of my own rulings? And with intolerance, either something does or does not fit into the world and work I am building for players to then build off of. Simple, or so I see it. Shades of grey are unneeded in something as simple and less than nuanced as a roleplay topic.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by KoL
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KoL Knight of Lorelei

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Thanks for your input up to now, everyone.

I can see that there's basically a consensus on the opinions regarding this issue. As an old timer tabletop gamer I'm firmly on the side of GMs having the ultimate veto power but it seems that a lot of the players around here (mostly those who never did and likely never will run a game of their own) don't realize that.

Either way, @BrokenPromise, creating a fictitious example wouldn't be that easy and given that I don't want to frame anyone for engaging in the type of conduct described above, I'm afraid that I can't provide you with one. I hope that this is understandable.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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@KoL Mmmmmmmm, if you're being misunderstood, it could be your fault or their fault. which is the main reason why I want to see the post/fight/thing in question. The temptation for me is always to side with the GM, but that's because I am the GM most of the time. It's definitely possible for the GM to do things that are way in the wrong. The problem is that it's not really the player's place to make a fuss in OOC. Most players will leave the RP instead of approach the GM, even in private, about the problem.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by AngelofOctober
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While I agree a GM has final word on story and plot. I also do believe a GM has to be flexible enough to accept or at least hear out ideas of their members. Its the GMs job when to know to bend their rules or not to. I do agree that a GM sometimes has to be blunt and to the point, I am blunt and to the point that I was called "hostile" recently. But the member of the RP kept pushing and pushing their point of view. We gave them an answer the nice way the first time, but they continue going on about it.

Happened on another website, where someone kept trying to give me shoddy excuse after shoddy excuse. Then wouldn't take responsibility for their shoddy excuse and tried to pin the blame on me. They uh also reported me too for "bullying". When it comes to being a GM I have a saying "It's policy, it's not personal" I have a policy. I have a standard. I am going to live up to that standard, but I will also be flexible enough to hear someone out. If, and that's the big word, IF they start off cordial, respectful, and word themselves properly.

"I disagree" is not the right word to use against a GM. Instead "I have some thoughts, do you mind listening". Sounds much better than "I disagree because [insert novel of why they think they are smarter or better than the GM or the plot of the RP]"

Be Respectful. I am respectful to you. Don't. There's the door and I am going to come off like an asshole.
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