The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

[SleepingSilence]

@Fabricant451 I'm not saying you're at fault at all. And you've been reasonable and we genuinely just share different ideas and I'm fine with you and dropping the discussion when we probably agree more than we disagree.

But the fucking fact it became that pisses me off. Fucking be social, you're on a goddamn forum for fuck sake. *not directed at you or anyone but EVERYONE*

[skidcrow]

But the fucking fact it became that pisses me off. Fucking be social, you're on a goddamn forum for fuck sake.

@SleepingSilence

harsh words from the social butterfly.

[mickilennial]

You failed to have a reasonable discussion on any level.

@SleepingSilence

Yes, I considered your remarks absurd and frankly ridiculous. I hold no secrets about that. However, Silence, it was you who refused to have a reasonable or concise discussion when you used weak argumentation and insisted on misunderstanding points made. I would say from my purview, it was you who failed to have a reasonable discussion on any level.

But the fucking fact it became that pisses me off. Fucking be social, you're on a goddamn forum for fuck sake. *not directed at you or anyone but EVERYONE*

@SleepingSilence

Everyone was being social. Just because you don’t like the fact of where the tone of the conversation went does not mean neither of the three parties weren’t socializing.

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by Grimhildr>

Yeah but my autistic screeching had cadence!

@Fabricant451

Ignoring that part I suppose, we've been reasonable. My question. Who have I attacked thus far? Pretty sure the score thus far is 3 to 0. Am I just the only one who doesn't like doing that?

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>
If you have very thin skin that you take a meme seriously.
If you think this is mob mentality you are sorely mistaken.
[/quote]

@Inkarnate Ad hominem first sentence...for fuck sake people its not that hard to be polite in discussion. ITS NOT HARD! Also what else it is at this point? Enlighten me.

Actually please don't, I don't feel like responding to people doing nothing but trying to make themselves feel good for mocking someone else.

[mickilennial]

And I feel like both of these conversations have been as follow.

A. I have an opinion.

B. FUCK YOU. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA MY FACT IS RIGHT.

A. Wait, maybe we both just have different op-

B. HAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

A. No really, this can't be a fact...were literally discussing appeal.

B. MY OPINION IS FACT AND IS THE RIGHT ONE! DON'T DRAG ME IN YOUR HATRED!

A. Uh...what about these points?

B. I don't like to circle around in discussion.

@SleepingSilence

Because this isn’t the same kind of condescension or mockery you are accusing others of. Please.

As for the courtesy of respect, I have given you the amount I give others as human beings.

[Fabricant451]

I'm just wondering who was keeping score now.

[skidcrow]

@Inkarnate Ad hominem first sentence...for fuck sake people its not that hard to be polite in discussion. ITS NOT HARD!

@SleepingSilence

stop whining and actually respond maybe? idk. just my advice.

Everyone was being social. Just because you don’t like the fact of where the tone of the conversation went does not mean neither of the three parties weren’t socializing.

@Inkarnate

this. being social does not simply mean "being nice". it means socialising with others, be it in a positive or negative way. i could tell someone they look ugly, for example, and it'd still be social.

[SleepingSilence]

@Grimhildr I can only imagine what political things you stand for. <.<

[mickilennial]

I think attacking others by presuming their political affiliations is far more condescending then anything that was stated previously. Dick move.

[skidcrow]

@Grimhildr I can only imagine what political things you stand for. <.<

@SleepingSilence

politics has nothing to do with this. it has to do with you being caught out, then acting condescending and like you're better at being social than everyone else because "wahhh! people are picking on me because barely any of my points are valid!"

but since you're so curious, you can see my political compass results here:

I think attacking others by presuming their political affiliations is far more condescending then anything that was stated previously. Dick move.

@Inkarnate

agreed.

[mickilennial]

but trying to make themselves feel good for mocking someone else.

@SleepingSilence

Which I am not doing, but nice presumption. If you must know, my intentions are only to respond to points at this point in time. There are no emotions behind it, negative or otherwise.

[SleepingSilence]

Ignoring everything now.

New appeal, why do people have sock puppet accounts? *This is sarcasm*

[skidcrow]

Ignoring everything now.

New appeal, why do people have sock puppet accounts? *This is sarcasm*

@SleepingSilence

for twice the memery, of course.

[mickilennial]

I grew up on Lamb Chop, so sock puppets have always been pretty rad.

[NuttsnBolts]

Ignoring everything now.

New appeal, why do people have sock puppet accounts? *This is sarcasm*

@SleepingSilence

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

for twice the memery, of course.

@Grimhildr

[GarlandChaos]

<Snipped quote by GarlandDaHero>

Oh boy. A nerve has been struck here but I'm gonna not let that influence me and I'll just stick to a brief answer.

First of all, saying rap is all the exact same thing shows an ignorance of the genre. It would be like me saying all pop music is about love. Rap is as diverse a genre of music as any other and takes a certain talent and appreciation for music to truly succeed at. Great rap is an art. When you have an MC who can flow atop a great beat while giving lyrics that make you think, it's another level. I'm not sure why sex or drugs are seen as a negative stereotype of rap music when rock music has been doing it for far longer. Even the Beatles wrote songs about drugs and sex. Rap, like any genre of music, is as much a platform for its artists as anything else. Yes there are rappers that sing about "the lifestyle" and having enough disposable cash to throw on sex, drugs, cars, whatever. But that's just surface stuff there and it's the kind of argument that people bring up because they hear someone like mush mouthed Chief Keef or something.

I suppose I haven't really explained the appeal but it's a difficult thing to express because everyone has different tastes. That said what I'm gonna do instead is provide some examples of rappers, some famous and some not, who aren't just about the lifestyle. Who are examples of the talent and skill that make great rappers or at least very good ones.



Guru was a damn poet and this song is an inspirational track about getting back up when life gets hard and it's delivered in a unique way thanks to Guru's gift with lyrics and the beat provided by Premo. This song is a great example of what rap can really do: inspire, uplift, be thought provoking, and be powerful. The way Guru flows with the beat...it's a work of art, truly.



Four Women was a song written by Nina Simone which was a song about the lasting effects of slavery via the stories of four women. Here, the song is re-imagined into a song that is just as powerful and resonant. It keeps the soul of the original and adds a new level of heart. A lot of rap music came from a place like this, with poets using their words to speak out about their reality. When rap was violent with its lyrics, it was in response to violence within communities - it's not that dissimilar to a group like, say, Rage Against the Machine which used rap and guitars in order to have more political minded messages in their songs.



If you're starting to see a pattern, congrats. If not, I'll just spell it out. While beats are important in creating a good rap song, what really makes a rap song great is, of course, the lyrics and with it the flow. Nas is one of the all time greats and One Mic is one of the greatest songs recorded, any genre. It's an incredibly powerful song dealing with real issues within the community that people like Nas came from, the hook in this song, how he just needs one mic, speaks volumes alone.

Yes, there are rap songs about fucking and getting money, but rap is a powerful tool for bringing up social, economic, and political issues. But that's just one side of the coin.



It's real easy for people to piss on Kanye West and sure, he invites a lot of it, but you can't deny the man knows what he's doing when it comes to putting together a production. He didn't get infamous just with his ego alone. Even if you ignore the lyrics, which why would you when they're so strong and is a rarity in that it's a exultation on spirituality, listen to the production, the music, the beat. The tempo makes the whole song sound like a marching band or a military cadence. It is things like that, the care in the craft of the song, that made Kanye West so successful even before he was known for his lack of awareness and his arrogance.



This isn't even Missy's best song but it does perfectly exemplify how diverse rap is as a genre. While the previous songs have had powerful lyrics and memorable beats, this song created a unique style (something Missy does all the damn time) and created an absurdist, futurist anthem. It trades drum and bass for synth and jungle beat and cemented Missy as a surrealist and someone who evolves the genre. Hell, she's reclaiming the word bitch even.



This song speaks for itself. When this song came out, Em was at the top of the entire game and for great reason.



Li'l Wayne, like Kanye, is an easy target for people that really don't listen to a lot of rap. And sure, some of it is deserved and I'm not the biggest fan of his but A Milli is what people call a banger and it's one the songs that proved how Li'l Wayne was on a different level from a lot of his contemporaries at the time. It's lyrics are chock full of entendre and multi-meanings that turn a song that, on the surface, sounds like the anthem of a kid that 'made it), into an anthem of a rapper who is staking his claim and making others take note. The thing about Wayne is that while he may not have the most consistent flow (but when he's on, he's on) he does have genre defining beats. Now some can argue that the shift to harder beats is what is ruining or ruined rap but beats have evolved with the times. Even Straight Outta Compton had a hard beat and that's one of the greatest songs of all time.



I just wanted an excuse to put another Kanye track on the list and to show that even in the present era where people like to complain about the content of rap, there exists a song like New Slaves.



Rap can even get deeply personal, not in the political or social way but in the actual self reflection and introspective way. Case in point is this track. Fatlip was never exactly popular and here is a song where he goes into his feelings and his depression. It's one of the realest songs you can get because here's a song from a guy that didn't really ever "make it" in the same way as damn near everyone else posted did.

I could go on but I kinda think I've done a poor job anyway and have just been indulging myself. But what I'm trying to get across is that rap is an incredibly diverse genre that constantly evolves. It has old voices speaking up and new voices steering the conversation. Yes, there are songs that are popular and bad and are vapid, but that's selling the entire genre short. It's fine not to like rap. It's not a genre made for a lot of people. But it does speak to a lot of people and often has been the voice of the voiceless. Hip Hop evolved from the funk era of the 70s and 80s and rap evolved from there. It's still evolving and changing. Even with the rise of 'gangsta' rap it brought about things like G-Funk which was an evolution of the roots of the entire thing.

I have to stress again that thinking rap is about money, drugs and bitches is wrong on every possible level. But even taking the songs that are about that or at least include it, like the song Lifestyle by Rich Gang, is it so wrong for people to want to express their happiness at finding success? For a lot of rappers they started poor and found success with their words and music.

@Fabricant451

<Snipped quote by GarlandDaHero>

Actually rap has a lot of good variety, (it's no metal, but it does have stuff that breaks the mold.) With genuinely good lyrical content. You just need to look for it and avoid the mainstream that plagues the genre. There's a ton of rap that doesn't have to do with drugs and sex and doesn't abuse profanity at all. Also can have quite different instrumentals, including rock and folk stuff. Alt-Rap has a ton of good stuff in it. I will try to expose you to a bunch of stuff and maybe you'll find something you might actually like. :D

Here's 12 rap songs from artists. Minimal language provided. :3 If you're really interested in trying to like rap, as I was when I was in your position, maybe I can convert you to a fan. xP

Dude that got me into rap.
Rock Beat/Emotional
Rap/Blues
Emotional Song
Break Up Song/guy never curses in any song he writes.
"Reflects his failure as a visual artist, and some of the regret I’ve experienced in regards to not pursuing it"- Quoted
A fast lyrical rap, one thing I always appreciated over mainstream artists.
Folk Beat/Grim and about death. (its 4 min long)
Electronic beat.
A song about the periodic table.
An angry rap talking about current events and the death of the rappers mother.
Story Rap. Mostly Harmonica.

Now my rap related question, ironically enough. Please humor me and explain why vs everything I could listen to...

Why Kendrick Lamar is so enjoyable and rated so highly? He does practically nothing new...He's not overly fast rapper, he's not lyrically complicated, (in fact he is pretty awful.) he uses the n-word and curses like it goes out of style. Some of his stuff is mildly depressing/self loathing...which is apparently like why some people apparently like Drake...But holy hell, there are better artists that do that. I think I like a single song I've heard from him called I, but he does some weird vocal pitch changes that are unnecessary. Tried to listen to his second album and I couldn't even finish it, I hated it that badly. Am I missing something here?

@SleepingSilence

Even amongst contemporary rap their assertion is incorrect, yes. I would also like to state this is all very amusing criticisms considering rock and roll was popularized on the concepts of sex, drugs, and rebellion; it is in part why the sexual liberation happened. But I suppose that is a tangent of sorts. Anyway, urban culture [see: hip hop, contemporary R&B, rapping, turntablism, etc] in general has been diverse since its inception in the early seventies and to claim shallow is disingenuous.

Also, if you don't like the language of the street don't listen to the language of the street.

@Inkarnate

I noticed a recurring theme throughout these and the rest of the posts like them: They talked about how not all rap music has the same "language of the street", and one guy even mentioned rock touching upon the same themes years earlier. Don't think I'm not aware of that, rock and metal are my soul, after all.

In fact, I clearly said almost all rap has the same subject matter and lyrical content. I'm completely aware that there is wide diversity in the genre, I was just pointing out the most common themes.

I'm also none too keen on the typical instrumentation of the genre, on another, related note.

[skidcrow]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

<Snipped quote by Grimhildr>

@NuttsnBolts

well ofc.

[SleepingSilence]

@Grimhildr This started from you being aggressive to me right off the bat, then calling me whining for calling you out on it...and yeah glad your admitting you people are "calling me out"

And seriously your logic of being social somehow allows a person to be a complete asshole to others for no reason is somehow social because words are involved, is just bewildering to actually believe.

This was suppose to be a simple discussion. It's grown toxic. And it was not me, (or to be fair the original person.) That started it. Please stop.

@Inkarnate Same to you. Just please stop, and I will too...This is just absurd. And making one statement, to constant attacks is evil-er, yes. Because you're on their side. Fuck sake.

[Dolerman]

And said I have far more than three examples and threads of things that turned out bad because of politics was mentioned.

@SleepingSilence

Nothing on this forum discussing politics ever stayed civil.

@SleepingSilence

@Grimhildr I can only imagine what political things you stand for. <.<

@SleepingSilence

Don't be that guy again, guy xD