Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Silver Carrot
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The way even the KH1 fan is shitting on Alice in Wonderland makes me think that I might actually begin having fun with this game if I manage to slog through the shitshow that is the Alice in Wonderland level.

No, seriously, if I have three seconds of fun playing this fucking game tomorrow, I'll only have had three seconds out of my entire life having fun with it. It's that much of a chore to me. But it feels like a fundamentally wrong thing that I don't like Kingdom Hearts. I should like Kingdom Hearts. On paper it's my dream game. *Frustration*
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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KH1s combat is not deep, Kingdom Hearts playthroughs/speed runs on highest level of play consist of a lot of dodge rolls, one 3 hit combo, and using cure. No amount of you saying I'm belittling it is going to make it any deeper.


If by teching, incorporating magic, summoning, and the use of limit break abilities is what you mean by highest level play. Speedruns are about doing things as quickly as possible so that's not exactly the metric of the average player considering speed runners will abuse whatever tactic they can if it saves point three seconds. Besides the fact, speedrunners use jump attacks.

If the combat is so shallow then by all means use the three hit combo and nothing else. See how well you do.

KH2s combat is deeper, it has more enemy types and different ways to mix up attacks, but a lot of that boils down to 'press triangle to do something cool' and turn into the powered up form for a limited time for access to more powerful attacks that totally isnt devil trigger. These things aren't necessarily bad by concept, but that's what they are.


I mean, you're wrong again and especially on the highest level of play but why waste the time here.

I mean look, if you find a happy go lucky kid gaining friends and confronting an 'evil' organisation a good story then fine, there isn't nothing inherently wrong with it just like there is nothing wrong with 70% of the Tales games you shit on, but it's just not particularly interesting when its lead by characters with simplified dialogue and childish humor. I'm not being a snob, this is what happens when you apply the children's story telling of disney to a 30+ Hour JRPG, simple pleasant enough things get drawn out and tired.


I didn't say it was a good story - I said it was a simple one. Tales games are like Kingdom Hearts except they are worse in near every way. Tales games are far more shallow and are much much more poorly written.

The platforming is uninteresting, trying to time those idiotic vine swings in deep jungle isnt fun, its not a particularly interesting enviroment, the level progression of finding pictures for tarzan's slideshow isnt engaging. Its a level that you would find in the video-game adaptation of a disney movie. And that goes for a LOT of them (I think I liked the jack skellington world but It was a long time ago).


The pictures are all in the same one area, it's not like you're traversing the entire jungle for one photo. The game flat out tells you when to jump onto the vines.

but because they couldn't bring back the movie voice actors for the game


Well it's a bit hard to have dead people voice characters. But then they went ahead and got the original voices that were still alive anyway so shame on them for doing that I guess. Except for Minnie Driver but then who remembers her anyway.

And yes they act out of character, obviously that is sort of the result of a non-canon variation of adapting FF characters to a kid friendly disney 'what if' story but yes Cid highwind acting like a friendly grandpa mechanic when he's supposed to be a chain-smoking, alcoholic, smart-ass prick, IS out of character, and I don't feel like his KH version really added much of anything to the narrative.


Cid not being a chain smoking alcoholic in a game rated E for Everyone doesn't make him out of character. He's not out of character because he isn't using profanity or smoking.

Kairi is a bland character so I found it impossible to care about any interaction between her and a nearly as bland Sora. I haven't played chain of memories or anything outside of 1 and 2 so I cant speak on the development there.


Okay so just say that you don't care instead of acting like the characters are bad because they aren't full of depth and blatant obvious one eighty changes in personality that makes up typical video game character development.

So yeah there's my subjective opinion, be sure to let Prawn remind me why it's objectively wrong.


Bitch I don't tell that dude what to do, stop acting like I do.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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I should like Kingdom Hearts. On paper it's my dream game. *Frustration*


I'll admit, when I was a tween who just discovered the magic of anime visuals and J-pop, hearing about a game that brought the western magic of disney with the eastern magic of Final Fantasy seemed like one of those things that literally was so good it would only exist in a conversation between young imaginative kids of that generation.

And then I played it, the WHOLE thing, waiting for it pick up, or get good and it didn't, I probably cried.

Then 1.5 got released, and I thought 'let me give this another go as an adult' and I hated it even more.

Somwhere between then, I played KH2 which was mildly amusing but not enough for me to finish it or ever pick up another KH game again.

So yeah, I remember that frustration. I hate wanting to like a game that I hate, slightly more than liking a game that on paper I should hate (Ace Attorney, Persona 3).
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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but I do like Riku's growth but anime's i think have done this a lot better in a less tight time-frame.


Riku has character development but its nothing we haven't seen before in 1000 different animes/JRPGs done better.


Something being done 'better' elsewhere doesn't invalidate what is done somewhere else.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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The way even the KH1 fan is shitting on Alice in Wonderland makes me think that I might actually begin having fun with this game if I manage to slog through the shitshow that is the Alice in Wonderland level.

No, seriously, if I have three seconds of fun playing this fucking game tomorrow, I'll only have had three seconds out of my entire life having fun with it. It's that much of a chore to me. But it feels like a fundamentally wrong thing that I don't like Kingdom Hearts. I should like Kingdom Hearts. On paper it's my dream game. *Frustration*


It'll help if you stop acting like you SHOULD like a thing. It's okay not to like a thing. You're putting it on a pedestal and you don't even like the damn thing. I guarantee that even if you manage to get further than you've ever gotten you're still not going to come away liking it if this is your response to it.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Leaves
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>> Me when someone defends the Kingdom Heart series

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Yamada Zero
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So yeah there's my subjective opinion, be sure to let Prawn remind me why it's objectively wrong.



Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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>> Me when someone defends the Kingdom Heart series



I don't even like the series is the sad part.

Joke's on me.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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@Fabricant451
KH1 doesnt have limit breaks so you calling me objectively wrong about the game's mechanics just lost a bit of it's punch.

If I don't care about bland characters then I'm not doing anything wrong, the development is trope-ridden and simplistic and that's worse than it being non-existent.

And yeah, I forgot jump attacks, deep combat bro.

Playing Sora like a mage is ineffective in KH1, the menu scroll in real time is to cumbersome to use magic consistently in mid level fights and you still have to do a shit load of rolling, its not smooth or visceral, that's why 80% of the time on speedruns OR regular lets plays or playthroughs they are spamming that god awful combo. The game isnt designed well enough for you to successfully mix it up in KH1.

But I mean if you're going to say that KH1 of all fucking things has a better Battle System, story, and character development than something like Tales Of Vesperia then I'm just going to have to tune out and post Gifs.

And Cid can still be an ass without swearing, look at Dante for christ sake.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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<Snipped quote by rebornfan320>

<Snipped quote>

Something being done 'better' elsewhere doesn't invalidate what is done somewhere else.


Alright, its done particularly poorly in Kingdom Hearts 1, better?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Leaves
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<Snipped quote by Leaves>

I don't even like the series is the sad part.

Joke's on me.


Wait. What?

You know what. I'll take it. It's better than nothing.

Fabrican pressed ▲ to win argument.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>



link's broken bruh
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Fabrican pressed ▲ to win argument.


This is the deep battle system of RPG debates.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I've sat here for an hour and I've never seen two people go "you're factually wrong because my opinion" more than this.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Leaves
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<Snipped quote by Leaves>

This is the deep battle system of RPG debates.


A little Kingdom Hearts humor. I'm not sure why everyone hates on the action commands or "quick-time" events. This doesn't necessarily limit to Kingdom Hearts, but to other games as well. The new Spider-Man game is going to have the same formula and complaints were being made.

I think "quick-time" events are rewarding and do keep one focused on the combat or "on their toes." Not everything can be coded or executed normally.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Yamada Zero
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<Snipped quote by Prawn>

link's broken bruh


Bah, fuck you Giphy. That was my best Hugh Laurie gif too. D:
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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I've sat here for an hour and I've never seen two people go "you're factually wrong because my opinion" more than this.


I mean you spend the majority of your time watching @Penny debate right-wingers in my political thread, so I know for a fact this isn't true.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Leaves
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I've sat here for an hour and I've never seen two people go "you're factually wrong because my opinion" more than this.


Wait till you meet my parents. Hahahahahaha.

@Prawn

I see it clearly.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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@Fabricant451
KH1 doesnt have limit breaks so you calling me objectively wrong about the game's mechanics just lost a bit of it's punch.


It has Special Attacks which are the same thing and what I meant.

If I don't care about bland characters then I'm not doing anything wrong, the development is trope-ridden and simplistic and that's worse than it being non-existent.


You think they're bland when they aren't. You can dislike the archetype that Sora is or think that Riku is a bit cliche in regards to his role but that doesn't make them bland characters.

And yeah, I forgot jump attacks, deep combat bro.


Your glibness does you no credit.

Playing Sora like a mage is ineffective in KH1, the menu scroll in real time is to cumbersome to use magic consistently in mid level fights and you still have to do a shit load of rolling, its not smooth or visceral, that's why 80% of the time on speedruns OR regular lets plays or playthroughs they are spamming that god awful combo. The game isnt designed well enough for you to successfully mix it up in KH1.


Menu scroll? Dude that's what shortcuts are for. The game IS designed well for the type of game it is, and the game is designed around the combat. It can be beaten at level one not because the combat is shallow but because it's designed to be played in a variety of ways. It's a game where your HP numbers don't even break triple digits, it's not complex. But just because it isn't a Platinum game doesn't mean it's a shallow system.

But I mean if you're going to say that KH1 of all fucking things has a better Battle System, story, and character development than something like Tales Of Vesperia then I'm just going to have to tune out and post Gifs.


Battle system? No. Story? Character development? Ehhhhhh that's debatable. Vesperia is probably the single most overrated game in the franchise, taking the crown from Symphonia. Vesperia has a grand total of two likable characters and none of them are Yuri.

I fully expect a gif because that's what you do anyway.

And Cid can still be an ass without swearing, look at Dante for christ sake.


Dante isn't an ass so much as he is aggressively cocky. Also Dante is a shit character anyway.

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Wait. What?

You know what. I'll take it. It's better than nothing.

Fabrican pressed ▲ to win argument.


I like Kingdom Hearts 1 and one third of Birth By Sleep. Kingdom Hearts is a trashfire of a video game franchise and I hate it and I hate that I've played all of them.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Yamada Zero
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@Leaves Well, at least it works for someone!
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