Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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I was browsing through roleplays the other day when I came upon this statement: “Limitations breed creativity.” This troubled me greatly—my first thought asked, “Don’t limitations prevent creativity?” I refused to stop there, and endeavoured to find an answer, but that one question opened more and more. What do limitations do for creativity? Do they foster it or stifle it? Are there any reasonable limitations—and, if so, can I decide what kind of limitations are and are not reasonable?

Creativity can be defined as “the use of original ideas in the production of an artistic work.” (“Artistic” may obfuscate any points I make, so unless it becomes relevant it’ll only serve as a sort of clarification.) A limitation that fosters creativity must encourage the use of original ideas, but I believe that it is much easier for a limitation to restrict the use of original ideas. Such a limitation may say that you cannot use x idea in y way, or that you can only use x idea in y way. It may make generalisations, but a limitation on creativity will usually be in the form of a whitelist or blacklist, nebulous or otherwise.

Thus, a limitation on creativity must, by definition, reduce creativity. Such limitations prevent the use of certain ideas and discount imagination in certain areas. I do not intend, however, to paint limitations in such a negative light. Perhaps there are limitations that, despite restricting creativity, also encourage it, such that the negative effect is outweighed. Perhaps, in fact, there are some limitations that are necessary to meaningful creativity.

I’d like to examine several common limitations on writers and, by logical argument, explain whether their net effect is negative or positive. Feel free to object or make your own examinations.







Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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When people say "Limitations breed creativity," they are saying that people do more interesting things when they are presented with a barrier and aren't given excessive freedom. They will find a way around the barrier, or they will find a way to make their side of the barrier more palatable.

As an example, I once joined a magical girl roleplay. I didn't like it very much, but that's not really important. I wanted to make a medusa themed girl, with some pirate themes thrown in. Medusa traditionally dwelled on an island by the sea, so it wasn't a huge stretch. But the GM would have none of that, and said that the snake aspect of my character was too far outside the boundaries of what a pirate was. But I really liked her powers, particularly her paralyzing stare and how her hair could be used as a weapon. So instead I made her more of a pirate captain who drew influence from all the great pirates. She had burning wicks in her hair like black beard that could be used as weapons. She also had the intense gaze of a pirate captain, which often caused people to stop in their tracks. So while I didn't get to play as my medusa/pirate hybrid, I got to use all the powers I wanted to and made one of the most unique magical girls the RP saw. While it did ruin some of the backstory stuff between medusa and my character both having similer origins, she was definitely the most interesting pirate magical girl I'd ever seen. all because a GM told me I couldn't have a medusa pirate girl.

Limitations definitely make for more interesting stories.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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When people say "Limitations breed creativity," they are saying that people do more interesting things when they are presented with a barrier and aren't given excessive freedom. They will find a way around the barrier, or they will find a way to make their side of the barrier more palatable.

As an example, I once joined a magical girl roleplay. I didn't like it very much, but that's not really important. I wanted to make a medusa themed girl, with some pirate themes thrown in. Medusa traditionally dwelled on an island by the sea, so it wasn't a huge stretch. But the GM would have none of that, and said that the snake aspect of my character was too far outside the boundaries of what a pirate was. But I really liked her powers, particularly her paralyzing stare and how her hair could be used as a weapon. So instead I made her more of a pirate captain who drew influence from all the great pirates. She had burning wicks in her hair like black beard that could be used as weapons. She also had the intense gaze of a pirate captain, which often caused people to stop in their tracks. So while I didn't get to play as my medusa/pirate hybrid, I got to use all the powers I wanted to and made one of the most unique magical girls the RP saw. While it did ruin some of the backstory stuff between medusa and my character both having similer origins, she was definitely the most interesting pirate magical girl I'd ever seen. all because a GM told me I couldn't have a medusa pirate girl.

Limitations definitely make for more interesting stories.


Who's to say it wouldn't have been more interesting if you had the medusa/pirate hybrid?

But I can respect that limitation because it coheres with the setting. The GM was keeping his or her RP internally consistent (based on his or her vision of what the RP should involve). I think your original ideas--your creativity--were restricted on account of the need for logical consistency, but the limitation wasn't so strong as to restrict all of your ideas. Maybe it would have been more interesting to have a medusa/pirate magical girl, or maybe it wouldn't have been. But it wasn't necessarily all that it could have been (and you acknowledged that yourself).
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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Speaking for myself, if you leave me with an empty slate in which I could create a complete world without any limitations or restrictions and with full resources to do whatever the hell I wanted...

...I would never finish.

Given a decent structure of limitations, I can have a theme to base off, and then adapt to an extent that the result is original. Yet what I created was based off something else. Perhaps it was a desire to improve upon the original image, or just a spike of creativity caused by looking at something else. But well chosen limitations do, in their own little ways, make me more inclined to follow through on creating things.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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Speaking for myself, if you leave me with an empty slate in which I could create a complete world without any limitations or restrictions and with full resources to do whatever the hell I wanted...

...I would never finish.

Given a decent structure of limitations, I can have a theme to base off, and then adapt to an extent that the result is original. Yet what I created was based off something else. Perhaps it was a desire to improve upon the original image, or just a spike of creativity caused by looking at something else. But well chosen limitations do, in their own little ways, make me more inclined to follow through on creating things.


That's the point I made in the setting section. Logic, consistency, and a setting provide direction and, by preventing confusion, encourage creation. Like I said in my introduction, I don't paint restrictions in a negative light, because some of them are important and useful.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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@whizzball1 It was not necessary, but she would have fallen in with every other "let's roll a bunch of random crap together and see what we get" magical girls. The point was that I actually got to keep my original idea, which was a character that could stun on sight and fight with their hair. The limitation only made those aspects more interesting and make sense. Well, as far as magical girls go.

Another character for something entirely different was only allowed to have 1 element. So even though I wanted to make a character that could control temperature {heat and freeze things} I decided to stick with fire. I couldn't freeze the ground and skate on it, but I could turn it molten and slide on the liquid magma. etc. That character was one of the only ones that was able to use fire as a utility, versus everyone else who used fire as a purely offensive power.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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@whizzball1 It was not necessary, but she would have fallen in with every other "let's roll a bunch of random crap together and see what we get" magical girls. The point was that I actually got to keep my original idea, which was a character that could stun on sight and fight with their hair. The limitation only made those aspects more interesting and make sense. Well, as far as magical girls go.

Another character for something entirely different was only allowed to have 1 element. So even though I wanted to make a character that could control temperature {heat and freeze things} I decided to stick with fire. I couldn't freeze the ground and skate on it, but I could turn it molten and slide on the liquid magma. etc. That character was one of the only ones that was able to use fire as a utility, versus everyone else who used fire as a purely offensive power.


That's why I don't contend with limitations that are made for the sake of consistency. But both of those sets of ideas came at the cost of others. It seems to me from your examples and others that a limitation always comes at the cost of a net loss of potential ideas, but also that limitations encourage variation of ideas.

Out of curiosity, can you say with certainty that the ideas you used in place of your old ones were more interesting? If you never got to use your old ones, can you really say that you would have been less entertained with the ideas you didn't get to use? What combinations could you have made if you had access to both melting and freezing? I acknowledge that that's a lot of what ifs and hypotheticals.

At the very least, you were entertained by your idea in the context of that roleplay's setting, but you lost the chance of another. Considering that you would have been entertained either way, the limitations were basically positive—but I wouldn't say that the idea you were forced to use was definitely more interesting than the idea you wanted to use in the first place.
EDIT: This is more of a rhetorical question: if you had been given a free choice between, say, your two magical girls, and you hadn't yet tried either, which would you have chosen? I'll go as far as to say you would have chosen the idea where you had all the backstory you wanted and the relationship between Medusa and the magical girl. You were entertained either way, but not necessarily more interested.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by LegendBegins
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I don't think that unambiguously set boundaries are necessary given a set level of expectation prior to beginning. Human beings are able to deduce the boundaries of their environment without explicitly being informed of what they are to greater degrees as they mature. The reason humanity does not need to create rules to govern social interaction is because it is generally a given that we know and will abide by those unspoken regulations. When somebody violates these guidelines, it makes people uncomfortable and pushes them to assume that there is something wrong with that person for that very reason. Boundaries are best when self-set because when operating on a high level, you know what the logical result of a set of actions will be. Otherwise, you end up with a massive rule structure because there's no way to cover every possible case when people will abide by the letter of the law and not the spirit of it. So long as there is reasonable trust that others will be both mature enough to understand these implicit boundaries as well as reasonable enough to respect them, there is little reason to implement a particularly rigid structure for boundaries.

Of course, there is the distinct possibility that somebody driving the story wishes to go about it a certain way, but in the end, that also limits the creativity and purpose of this site entirely—introducing other individuals also introduces randomness and unique paths. The greater the restrictions on the possible paths, the farther it drifts from a collaboratively driven work and the closer it approaches a work by a singular author who may have had several ghost writers assist him in the creation process. While this is not necessarily an inherently negative way of going about things, I do believe that it goes against the spirit of these games or stories in the first place. While somebody may prefer a "healthy medium," the governing structure and restrictions on a story (or lack thereof) will cause the medium in its entirety to drift toward one of those two extremes. While I personally prefer to choose an extreme and create a foundation on top of it, I can see why others may be inclined as to choose another route. I feel as they may be limiting their own enjoyment in the end by doing so (though perhaps not; that is not for me to say), but that is another discussion entirely and outside the scope of this thread.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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@whizzball1

No one is going to dispute the fact that more freedom means more possibilities. The problem is people tend to use that freedom to take shortcuts instead of making something more unique and interesting. It forces you to think harder in order to make your character stand out. I know weaponised hair isn't uncommon in anime. But how many times have you seen people burned with such a weapon? Same with my fire character. you would think that my original character would have more abilities, but there was virtually no difference between the fire one and the hot and cold one. While thinking of the character as a duel elemental build definitely made the fire character more interesting, the fire character feels like they would fit better into a roleplay.

In fact, I joined another magical girl RP a few months ago. It had a CYOA system in place, so you basically rolled for a bunch of powers. It would have been acceptable to just make the character a pirate-griffen-chimera, but I restricted myself to only using pirate attributes again. Her wings were converted into sails, she used a ship cannon as a weapon to utilize her high strength and dexterity scores, etc. I feel my self imposed limitations made my character more interesting.

You should definitely let your imagination run wild. think of powers and atributes for your characters that don't make sense or wouldn't be allowed. But then challenge yourself to refine their attributes until they make sense in the setting. That works for anything from powers to backstory. Wanna do something with robots in a medieval RP? Use golums instead. Want to use magic in a strongly science fiction setting? Bust out those nannomachines that can act as fireballs and wizzard spells.

I agree with your comment earlier about what-ifs and hypothetical. Topics like this tend to become huge think tanks, and I'm more about seeing things in practice. How about you make a crazy RP character for an rp. link me to the RP, and then create a wild character (in this topic) that you would make without limits. Give them a dragon tail, cyborg augmentation, waifu-level deity that watches over them, and a really, really crazy backstory if you want. Do whatever. It does have to be something you find interesting, that's the only catch. Then I'll make a character that recaptures what you made in a unified theme, and we can discuss the two characters.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by NuttsnBolts
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Freedom means that the easy choice is always available, and by limiting these choices you are creating a challenge for people. People work naturally with a challenge and will try to find ways around it, both creative and lazy ways.

I don't wanna say too much more cause I feel others will be able to explain better than me, but creativity is a direct result of having a limitation and it brings about the skill of problem solving.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Clever Hans
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I think there's some confusion among terms. To have ideas limited by setting, plot etc. doesn't necessarily mean that creativity is limited. Also, do you equate creativity with ingenuity? When faced with a creative framework, an artist has to work harder to accomplish her goals. Does the situation therefore limit or encourage creativity? Or are limitations and lack of limitations two different kinds of stimuli that both engender creativity in different ways?
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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I think there's some confusion among terms. To have ideas limited by setting, plot etc. doesn't necessarily mean that creativity is limited. Also, do you equate creativity with ingenuity? When faced with a creative framework, an artist has to work harder to accomplish her goals. Does the situation therefore limit or encourage creativity? Or are limitations and lack of limitations two different kinds of stimuli that both engender creativity in different ways?


Knowing that I could possibly be misunderstood I just consolidated dictionary definitions of creativity and came to the conclusion that creativity is the use of original ideas. Ingenuity and inventiveness I do not equate with creativity, but I do believe that they work together with creativity. I don't think they foster creativity but use it instead, but I also think ingenuity can be used despite the lack of a framework. @LegendBegins seems to somewhat make this point—the unspoken limitations of skill and experience are much more freeing than other limitations but still encourage the inventive use of creativity; I can vouch for that from my own experience.

Given what I've said, I think the answer to your question is that they engender ingenuity in different ways, but that that is different from creativity.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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Freedom means that the easy choice is always available, and by limiting these choices you are creating a challenge for people. People work naturally with a challenge and will try to find ways around it, both creative and lazy ways.

I don't wanna say too much more cause I feel others will be able to explain better than me, but creativity is a direct result of having a limitation and it brings about the skill of problem solving.


I think that it's more that problem-solving is a direct result of having a limitation. One may have endless ideas up their sleeves, and writing and roleplaying give people a chance to use those ideas. But, on account of any limitations involved in a story or a roleplay, some ideas are lost, unusable. I'll make careful note that I don't consider that a bad thing right out, because problem-solving is another skill that's important to writing. The ideas that remain feasible may only be that way because you worked to make them feasible.

Ultimately, limitations restrict imagination but encourage reasoning. Another way to say it might be that limitations restrict the right brain but encourage the left brain. Whether that's a bad thing or not depends entirely on the context.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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@BrokenPromise

Sounds like a fun challenge.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Clever Hans
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<Snipped quote by NuttsnBolts>

Ultimately, limitations restrict imagination but encourage reasoning. Another way to say it might be that limitations restrict the right brain but encourage the left brain. Whether that's a bad thing or not depends entirely on the context.


I feel that in the human brain, creativity is a mixture of reasoning and creativity.
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<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

I feel that in the human brain, creativity is a mixture of reasoning and creativity.


I don't know if we can say that with a level of certainty. All this time I've been going off the dictionary definition, but if we all agree to redefine creativity as imagination and ingenuity in equal measure then the argument takes on a completely different colour (and also I'd rewrite all of my examinations).
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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@whizzball1

Does that mean you'll do it? Alright, I look folward to seeing what comes out.

My only condition for this challenge is that you pick an RP that gives me at least some leeway. Obviously I won't be able to make anything that can fight like a dragon-prince-demon-wizzard if you choose a generic true to life school drama as the base RP. If you're making a mid-teir combat orientated character, pick a mid teir combat orientated RP. Other than that though, you're free to do as you please.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by BrokenPromise
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@whizzball1 A magical school RP? I see no reason why that wouldn't work. The magic system interests me as well. Now you just have to create a character that you find interesting, creative limitations be damned. Filling out the character sheet would probably be the easiest way to do this.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Darcel
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<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

I feel that in the human brain, creativity is a mixture of reasoning and creativity.


Creativity is a mixture of reasoning and creativity?
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