Double

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

@CaptainSully Oh by all means, acquire all of that stuff. I've said from day 1 that power levels don't mean a damn thing to me, and that still holds true. Hell, I have every intention of basically never using the Super Saiyan transformation at all, except for maybe one instance and even that isn't guaranteed. I have other things in mind and none of this is going to change that.

If I have any real gripe with anything right now it's the fact that Raditz is probably gonna be dead before my character can question him. And I've long since assumed that geminironin (Daiko) is gone and not coming back, so that means I need to find another avenue for Yang's personal quest. Actually, destroying that Scouter may have screwed things up for us because now Vegeta and Nappa don't have any way to hear about the Dragon Balls and thus have no reason to show up one year later. Oh yeah... that also means that Kami has no reason to vouch for Sam to visit King Kai.... whoops.

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

@Double so you’re saying this is about us telling a story yet you have a strop because I’ve wanted Sam to die, go for a trip down Snake Way and visit King Kai?

@CaptainSully

Considering the insane boost you'll get from it? 10x gravity training, plus Kaiken and Genki Dama (Spirit Bomb) techniques. Everyone still on Earth... regular training (no increased gravity) and probably some made up techniques that aren't going to be nearly as heavy-hitting as Kaioken and Spirit Bomb.

The way this is currently structured, the first person to die is pretty much guaranteed to be the designated Goku who is always going to be leagues ahead and virtually impossible to catch up to.

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

My latest post is simply an attempt to get this mess done and dusted. I had no intention of killing Raditz when this started (made that clear many times) and to be honest, I wouldn’t have cared if Sam had died in vain with his plan. All I’ve wanted is to visit King Kai.

Simply the sooner this saga is done the better, that way we can move on and hopefully have the next one run better and without all the drama.

@CaptainSully

How does that not count as extreme meta-gaming? You're lucky I'm not running this show because I would punish that kind of shit by sending your ass straight to hell and denying you your precious King Kai training. Seriously, this supposed to be us telling a story, not some MMORPG where character builds decide everything!

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

*throws up hands*

Alright, I've tried making sense out of this absolute clusterfuck of a fight scene and I just can't do it. There's just too many people fighting over the spotlight and the longer this drags on the less fun it becomes to take part.

EDIT: And for all my efforts I destroy a scouter and get kicked into a building before Sully basically decided to steal the kill. Yippee! Anyone else having a good time? I'm having an absolute blast being Raditz's bitch and accomplishing nothing.

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

@Weird Tales I just wanted to thank you for changing your mind, and apologize for being so stubborn and abrasive when making my arguments. I must have sounded like a right ass from your perspective, and I'm sorry for that.

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

@mattmanganon

My response

That's all well and good, but that backstory just kills it for me. Like I said, he looks intimidating, his attacks are brutal and badass. You are right that he was given a lot of build up. But that backstory just... ugh... all that interest I had in him just instantly deflated. His only saving grace is that he is the one sole villain in Dragon Ball history that actually requires the "everyone dogpile him" strategy for him to be defeated, since that's pretty much how he was defeated in all of his appearances. I'm noticing a distinct lack of mentions of the third Broly movie, however. Not that I blame you, that movie was just... ugh.

But are you sure Goku actually wants to get stronger to protect people? Because starting with the Android Arc he starts making monumentally stupid decisions and from what I remember about the Buu Arc and what I've heard about Super... he never stops making stupid choices. I mean really, Goku, you're just going to risk letting humanity be wiped out by Androids because you want to train and fight them fair and square? You want to give CELL a sensu bean before forcing your pacifist son into a battle he has no actual interest in? You don't just use your Super Saiyan 3 form to instantly fuck Buu up because you're afraid of hurting Vegeta's feelings? Oh sure, you could just kill Frieza before he turns Golden and not even have to worry about him blowing the planet up, but no, let's let Frieza get away with this crap because as long as YOU get a good fight out of it, then nothing else matters, right? ...Oh dear, I'm ranting, aren't I? Sorry about that, Goku's personality and decisions tend to piss me off more often than not in the later series.

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

@mattmanganon I know that's a joke, but... I mean, that's pretty much what my feelings boil down to. He looks intimidating, his attacks look awesome and have kickass-sounding names... but that's about all it is for me. Just pure flash, no substance or anything.

I've always been a sucker for Turles myself. The idea of a low-class Saiyan that became disgruntled with his own culture's bullcrap and said screw them and went rogue? Hell yeah, that sounds badass! He starts his own little army called the Crusher Corps and has basically killed entire planets just to grow fruit from the Tree of Might to power himself up? Also pretty awesome. Hell when you think about it, Turles was basically Goku Black before Goku Black was even a thing.

I'd love for Yang to fight Turles. The idea of someone who would just kill entire planets to eat fruit that makes them stronger would absolutely disgust a disciplined pacifist like Yang, seeing that as something flies in the face of everything he stands for. (Spoilers: He'll probably feel similarly about the Super Saiyan form later on as well and likely have no desire to use it himself.)

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

Broly is a literal Villain Sue. At least the other movie villains had the decency to actually have some kind of explanation for them. Broly just comes out of nowhere and is magically the most powerful Saiyan ever that everyone is afraid of and could never hope to match, aka... a freaking Villain Sue. If you want to kill Broly then be my guest, but I'll not just stand there in awe like a dumbstruck idiot while you do so. That would just be stupid. If I wanted to see 99% of the cast stand around in dumbstruck awe while a single character dominates a villain, I'd just rewatch the actual series itself, God knows it abused the hell out of that trope with Goku. It doesn't help that Broly was one of those villains that just refused to stay gone. They brought him back two more times, a third if you count the upcoming movie. Why? What is so appealing about this guy that I'm just clearly not getting?

As much as I hate how often they brought back Frieza in the Super Era, at least he was a villain I actually liked. With Broly, eh, I just don't get the appeal with him.

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

My reasoning for having set power level increases was so that players wouldn't constantly increase while leaving others behind. I could work it by having a maximum power level cap for the current arc

<Snipped quote by Double>

The original fight between Frieza and Goku clearly showed that final form frieza at 100 percent power was stronger than ssj Goku. He just burned through his power quicker and Goku was fucking inhuman with how he refused to stop fighting.

@Weird Tales

No he wasn't. Goku was the one whose power level busted the scouter when they're powers were measured worlds away, not Frieza. Goku was literally toying with Frieza the whole time until he literally got bored.

And you're missing my point entirely. I have no interest whatsoever in having all fights we ever fight in instant devolve into "Everyone dogpile the villain!" Not only is that a dumb strategy that has never worked in Dragon Ball, but it's also setting us up for battles that are bland, repetitive, and impossible to keep track of. How do you not see this?

DBZ: The Sagas of The Z Warrior

<Snipped quote by Double>

Having the stronger power level isn't an instant win. Frieza at full power was stronger than super saiyan Goku, but Goku kept on fighting and made him burn through his energy and beat him

@Weird Tales

What version of DBZ were you watching? Super Saiyan Goku was stronger right from the start, to the point where Goku was the one who stopped fighting because he was bored. There was even a filler scene of Frieza's men on another planet using a large scale Scouter that measured Frieza's power level just fine but broke down when it tried to measure Super Saiyan Goku. Goku was stronger at that time. Several times stronger in fact.