Fabricant451

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Because it was defended and it was a bad/corny line.

@SleepingSilence

It's not a bad line nor a corny one. You can dislike it all you like for whatever superficial reasons you're drumming up, but it doesn't make it a bad line. Your entire argument boils down to "it's a dick line it's not good because dicks".

There's more bad lines in that song

You're going to sit here and say that a song like New Slaves has bad lines in it? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you think the dual usage of pussy is one. Maybe it's his repetition to drive a point home when he says "I see the blood on the leaves" and "I know that we the new slaves." Not every Kanye song is great lyrically, but New Slaves is consistently tight.

and Kayne literally has ruined more guest's songs than most rappers in general.

I'm just gonna go ahead and drop this



as just one example. There are countless more examples of great Kanye guest appearances but why not go with a modern classic.

And though I really don't wish to look at every mainstream lyrics page to show the dick sucking comparison has been used the thousand times and you pretending otherwise is beyond pointless but here's a few of them.

My issue was you using hyperbole and more and more it just comes off as you not liking the use of 'dick' in songs.

"I'm a dick, so it shouldn't be that hard to swallow." - Chris Brown

In New Slaves, Kanye is using entendre to state that he'd rather be known as an asshole that speaks up than someone who lies and stays quiet and follows along. In the second verse this is reinforced with "They throwin' hate at me/Want me to stay at ease". It's a song full of criticisms of modern culture and, yes, race. The name of the song is New Slaves for fucks sake.

Meanwhile the lyric you pulled isn't even from Chris Brown. It's by Kevin McCall on a Chris Brown track and the lyric (and song) is about leaving a woman. It's literally a break up song and thinking McCall saying "I'm a dick so you shouldn't be surprised I'm leaving you" is on the same level as Ye's verse is dishonest. It's not the same metaphor as both of them are saying wildly different things.

lyrics.com/serp.php?st=dick+swallow&p=2

Now you'll say, but some of those don't have the "same meaning" that Kayne does.

No I'll say that none of them do, from the page I looked at. Because they're just talking about actual blowjobs. Unless you take every single lyric at face value comparing the language and saying it's the same thing shows a lack of comprehension.

But...my point is the line itself has been done plenty of times. He means he'd rather be crude than passive. You're telling me there's no better way to say that?

You're telling me you could do better? The line's meaning is not a new concept but that doesn't make the line, which fits in with the entire theme and point of the song, a bad line at all. What you're doing here is removing context and thinking it reflects on the song and the man as a whole. It's presenting a notion that has been used a lot in the genre (specifically speaking up about things like, oh I dunno...systemic racism just as an example) and being on point about it with language that is, pun intended, easy to swallow. Why muddy the message with bullshit?

I'll just agree to disagree about kanye. Because like I said, unlike some less known rappers he also has like twenty writers and producers. Holy shit, Kanye has 10 and 11 writers in his single songs...and 8 producers...for a single track...

Can you consider it creative if it took an entire classroom to do it?

So do you not know how Kanye operates? How he works with people, curates, and bounce ideas off of? Do you think music production is something every artist can do? Is a song somehow worse because it has people like Rick Rubin on the production end of things? Do you think that Kanye just, what, has everyone else doing work while he just stands in the booth? Are you honestly trying to discredit Kanye as an artist because he gives writing credits to people he works with? Is that really what you're trying to say here? Because why else would you bring it up? Is Quentin Tarantino a bad director because he uses ideas from other film makers, including titles and characters? Of course fucking not.

Yes, but it also means complex ideas and things that I don't like Lil Wayne was exactly the best choice to prove rappers can have meaning in their songs

Why not?



Also, for a fun little game, go ahead and count the profanity in it, because profanity is bad and makes songs worse. Fun fact: this song is from the same album as A Milli, the other song of his I linked earlier.

or Kendrick for that matter.

We've been over this already. But if you don't think Kendrick has meaning in his songs than this is a lost cause.

Still, you say it's better to be simple and know how to use it than be complicated and gibberish which is all good, but how about complicated and articulate? Are we really arguing the dumber lyrics can sound, the better it is to be taken seriously as an art form?

That's your argument here. You're voicing this narrative that Kanye or Kendrick are worse because of their 'simple' vocabulary. And yet you're the one who isn't getting the meaning behind those supposed simple words. The lyrics I've posted haven't been dumb and the lyrics you've posted haven't had me go "Oh this is clearly better than this other stuff look it has demons and Wiccans in it." Every rapper has their own style and just because someone can be fast doesn't make them better. Would you say this is complicated and thus 'better'?

'Imitator intimidator, stimulator, simulator of data, eliminator
There’s never been a greater since the burial of Jesus
Fuck around and catch all the venereal diseases
My thesis will smash a stereo to pieces
My a capella releases classic masterpieces through telekinesis
It eases you mentally, gently, sentimentally, instrumentally
With entity, dementedly meant to be Infinite'

Now for a more 'simple' word scheme.

'I woke up early on my born day; I'm 20, it's a blessin'
The essence of adolescence leaves my body, now I'm fresh
And, my physical frame is celebrated ‘cause I made it
One quarter through life, some godly-like thing created
Got rhymes 365 days annual, plus some
Load up the mic and bust one, cuss while I pus from
My skull, ‘cause it's pain in my brain vein, money maintain
Don't go against the grain, simple and plain
When I was young at this I used to do my thing hard
Robbin' foreigners, take they wallets, they jewels and rip they green cards
Dipped to the projects, flashin' my quick cash
And got my first piece of ass, smokin' blunts with hash
Now it's all about cash in abundance
Niggas I used to run with is rich or doin' years in the hundreds
I switched my motto; instead of sayin', "Fuck tomorrow!"
That buck that bought a bottle could've struck the lotto
Once I stood on the block, loose cracks produce stacks
I cooked up and cut small pieces to get my loot back
Time is Illmatic, keep static like wool fabric
Pack a 4-matic to crack your whole cabbage'

If you're of the mind set that the first example is better because it has more complicated words then you've been missing a lot of the point of this discussion.

Well, maybe you are genuinely doing so. Saying you don't get street language and telling people to not listen doesn't do that. But my feeling is you'll defend anything by a rapper you enjoy and not admit when they have a dud line or make mistakes...So to prove this point...

No I won't. I don't even like Li'l Wayne. I don't think Kanye is infallible.

Is "Pussy" by Kendrick Lamar a terrible song...or is it somehow ingenious piece of writing because no one has mocked trap music before.

Do you mean Pussy and Patron?

'I'm going through something with life
But pussy and Patron will make you feel alright
Pussy and Patron make you feel alright
Pussy and Patron, that's some great advice'

Sarcasm. These things are temporary fixes and don't actually solve anything. The song is actually against alcohol - especially as a problem solver. Pussy and Patron is a good song and it actually gives some insight into Kendrick as a person and story teller. Case in point:

'Pushing in my momma van, stop for gas on Rosecrans
Trust me these niggas rushed me for something my cousin probably did
Guilty by association story of my life, nigga'

and

'You gone make me flip then split your shit, judge give me life, nigga
Pain since my grandma's death, uncle killed at Louis's Burgers
Hold my tears I tried my best, let it go drench my pullover
Cycles of a starving artist tryna go beyond the margin's margin
Maintaining my modest, modest as I dream
So while I go through all this, all this bullshit what you call it
Life itself I know it helps let me scroll through my Blackberry'

and of course

'I said keep reading my diary, when my life's entirely
Surrounded by the irony of living in the city
I said they wouldn't hire me, I said I got my ass beat
And the only thing can help is ass and some titties'

If you read this last part and think "HE JUST WANTS TO FUCK" then I have to say congratulations on missing the point and taking things on a surface level.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

You're saying, if I can't stand language I shouldn't listen to music. A pointless and worthless jab, because this started from someone ELSE asking for no language

They just asked to explain the appeal of rap music, not "Hey can you give me rap songs that don't have profanity?"

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

@SleepingSilence You're really hung up on the dick line from Kanye as if a blunt metaphor somehow invalidates the song as a whole. Can you point to these hundred rappers that use the exact same comparison? It's as if you're stuck on this notion that because a line is blunt and includes sexual imagery that it can't be as good as someone that spends an entire verse talking about lighting up some weed.

I've heard that it's so awesome to make complex ideas with simple words but did anything shown actually show anything remotely complex? Not really...

Yes. Complexity doesn't just mean multisyllabic words.

You people turn literally everything into an argument or something you have to win don't you? Yes asking for the songs that you like, was a genuine curiosity to listen to new music, won't say shit about them unless I enjoy them.

It got turned into a discussion the moment you challenged the points being made. You made a remark about Kendrick that is pretty factually incorrect and it escalated from there. It's not a matter of wanting to win, it's a matter of trying to inform.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

Could someone explain to me the appeal of reaction videos? TheFineBros actually manage to have diversity in their subjects to be unique, but I don't know how just watching some random guy howl and hoot to the newest movie trailer makes for good channel content.

@BingTheWing

I've been asking myself this question for years. There are some reaction videos that are good, I'm talking like H3H3 because he doesn't just watch a video and go "OHHHH SHIT OHHHHHHHH IT'S A THING". I haven't exactly figured out why people like watching a person or persons watch a thing and arbitrarily interject something. I would say it's a personality thing but most react channels are personality-less. I've settled on the answer of "I guess some people just like seeing someone excited about something." There are plenty of obviously fake reactionists out there but there's something...I dunno...invigorating about watching someone legitimately excited over something. It's like watching a child open gifts at Christmas in a way.

I don't like reaction videos with very few exceptions, and those tend to be people in the H3H3 category where they add a funny spin or when people watch a trailer and then do an analytical breakdown - but then it runs the risk of someone doing the most basic breakdown ever put to digital film.

In short, it's because of hype culture.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

@Fabricant451
All of those words are grade school level material. You can write strong with simple words, but denying that it isn't simple. I feel like I have to show you more lines from other artists...

@SleepingSilence

I can't get into the whole of your post right now because I need some sleep before work in a few hours but I'm just gonna say this. One of the greatest poems ever written is simple words. What poem? Doesn't matter but it's a Frost poem. Just because something uses larger words doesn't make it inherently better. We stop trying to use big words on papers right around the first time the teacher calls us out in it. You can be clever with words that aren't complex. I might argue that it's more impressive to pen something thought provoking with simple phrases than it is to pen something obvious but with ten point words. That's a Scrabble reference. Also I've never played Scrabble but ten points seems like a lot.

If all you take from lyrics is how complicated the words are, you're using superficial methods.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

@Inkarnate I showed twelve rap songs that I like. All non-mainstream artists. It's not like I haven't listened to a shit ton of it, believe me I have. XP

@SleepingSilence

Oh my god are you a hip hop hipster? What is your problem with mainstream artists?

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>
I’d be more partial to tailoring recommendations to an individual’s taste if they had the earnest intention to learn, actually. If they aren’t interested in melodic metal, I wouldn’t be giving them albums by Iron Maiden or Judas Priest to enjoy as I would be looking for what they’ve heard and what fancies them best. That said, I do see the point in showing a person how valuable contemporary sides of the genre can be.

@Inkarnate

That's fair. Also I know fuckall about metal and Metallica seemed like an easy pick.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

@Fabricant451

Like really...that's highest quality? I mean yes the song is satirical, so you can say the overall MESSAGE is clever, and something you can maybe appreciate but the writing itself? The vocabulary/comprehension is not exactly college level, you follow?

@SleepingSilence

How is it not college level? Unless the idea of college level is using a thesaurus to sound smarter. He staggers the verse three different times before getting to the actual verse, furthering the overall point of the song and how repetitious the style he's satirizing is. That's parallelism. Which is a technique plenty of high schoolers don't use let alone college kids. Just because lyrics have simple words doesn't mean the lyrics themselves are simple.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

And yes Kayne has said so many dumb things off and on the track, I can't take him seriously. In Black Skinhead for instance, which is his black pride anthem and he forces a line about how much sex he is getting in there...I just feel like there we're better choices. I don't mean to come off as they have nothing of value, but for something wanting to get into the genre for differences. Mainstream artists are NOT where to start.

@SleepingSilence

Are you referring, perhaps, to "300 bitches, where the Trojans?" Again, it's fine to take it literally but considering it's prefaced by "I keep it 300 like the Romans" then the Trojan line has, again, dual meaning. It's fairly basic stuff at this point - especially for Kanye.

Mainstream artists are the perfect place to start if someone is trying to get into the genre. Not every mainstream artist is worthwhile but someone will get a better scope of what makes a great rap album if they listen to To Pimp A Butterfly or The College Dropout than they would by starting with some indie rapper whose only ability is their speed or something. If you wanted someone to get into, say, metal, would you start them off with some black metal stuff or would you go for more 'mainstream' shit like I dunno....Metallica or something? It's the same thing here.

The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

@Fabricant451 Examples please, I really tried to like him. But really one of the best? Do I have to provide his bars? Like I want to at least find something that I like other than "I." I'm not closed minded, that's just what I got from his 2nd album. Is his first or third album better at this storytelling you speak of?

@SleepingSilence

Shit I've been through prolly offend you
This is Paula’s oldest son
I know murder, conviction
Burners, boosters, burglars, ballers, dead, redemption
Scholars, fathers dead with kids
And I wish I was fed forgiveness
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, soldier’s DNA
Born inside the beast

You could just look at the alliteration going on with Burners, booster, etc, but even beyond that the list of ten things (common sights from where Kendrick is from, common thing) brings up potential biblical allusions which is fitting given how the album is stepped in Deuteronomy.

Promises are broken and more resentment come alive
Race barriers make inferior of you and I
See, in a perfect world, I'll choose faith over riches
I'll choose work over bitches, I'll make schools out of prison
I'll take all the religions and put 'em all in one service
Just to tell 'em we ain't shit, but He's been perfect, world

There's a lot going on in just this alone and it's not just a statement on the choices he's made. I didn't include it, but it ties back to his previous album and the line abour race barriers goes into a desire to engage in discussions about race.

Wake up in the mornin'
Thinkin' 'bout money, kick your feet up
Watch you a comedy, take a shit, then roll some weed up
Go hit you a lick, go fuck on a bitch
Don't go to work today, cop you a fit
Or maybe some kicks and make you—

Wake up in the mornin'
Thinkin' 'bout money, kick your feet up
Watch you a comedy— hol' up!
Wake up in the mornin'
Thinkin' 'bout money, kick your feet up
Watch you a comedy, take a shit, then roll some weed up
Go hit you a lick, go fuck on a bitch, don't go to work today
Cop you a fit or maybe some kicks and make it work today
Hang with your homies, stunt on your baby mama
Sip some lean, go get a pistol, shoot out the window
Bet your favorite team, play you some Madden
Go to the club or your mama house
Whatever you doin', just make it count

This loses a lot in the transition but the short version is that this verse - and the song it comes from - is satirical and is about the the lifestyle of people like him, the rap stars of the world. The same type of people that get ragged on for making songs about bitches, drugs, and money.

Also these are all from the same album. I'd be here all night if I started pulling more from his discography.