Fabricant451

Slice of Life Superpower RP?

Yeah

The Sands of Time

Aight, well, hope ya'll have a good time. See ya around.

2k4: New Class

First

X-Men: Logan-verse

I am intrigued

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

Oh I actually do know this one! I think it's a completely reductive, and shortsighted method. As far as film analysis goes, it's an absolute joke and is not to be taken seriously.

@tex

It's not meant for analysis, it's meant to show the inequality female characters get in movies and how they're often relegated to window dressing. It's such a very small thing yet it's surprising how many movies fail it; and just because a movie fails it doesn't mean the movie is bad.

I do still disagree that the film should be labeled as 'feminist', but I will concede that the film correlates with the general idea of women being treated no differently than men. But I don't think that there's any emphasis on this. Maybe the emphasis comes from the fact that it was released in the early 2000's? Maybe the fact that the lead is female had a great deal of significance back then? I'm not sure if that's a stable argument as I'm not exactly a film buff, but it's possible. But if we hold it to today's standards, there is absolutely no way in hell it meets my expectation of a feminist text.

The fact that it came out in the early 2000s and was an action movie starring a woman certainly helped. It's common place for people to try and downplay it when a movie like Wonder Woman has critics being like "Finally a female led movie!" by pointing to like Alien(s) and Terminator 2 and thus completely missing the point. It's better now but there's so often been the feeling that women can't be action heroes in movies, they have to be side characters or part of a team while the guys do the big work. Kill Bill isn't patting itself on the back and having characters be like "Hah, you're a woman, you can't handle a sword, oh no I am dead" which would be pandering and in poor taste. Instead Beatrix is respected, feared, and as competent as everyone else with no special attention drawn to it.

That is a good thing. It is a net positive because her gender isn't what defines her as a character. If Kill Bill were released today, more than ever people would be claiming it as a feminist film. Mad Max: Fury Road is so of course Kill Bill is too.

My argument as it is now (after learning that my memory of Kill Bill is in fact completely inaccurate, and that our arguments have not been entirely congruent) is more in line with how slapping the feminist Label on films with such general criteria is shallow and pointless. Despite this, I have not changed my own criteria on what a feminist movie should entail, and I would still cite several of the points I've already made to support this idea as it is.

Simply put, I have already conceded that by your definition, Kill Bill is a feminist film, but I do not agree with your criteria, as by that notion, a great deal of films could be considered 'feminist', something I also disagree with. In the same fashion, and allow me to reword this, I would not label movies that display homosexual individuals as no different than others as 'LGBT', despite the fact that this falls in line with the idea that sexuality is not to be stigmatized. Instead, in both cases, I would apply the label of 'feminist' or 'LGBT' to movies that offer an intelligent dialogue about the trends they are discussing, while referencing the aforementioned as 'movies that fall in line with X's ideals'.

Sure but that's not how feminist film theory works. A movie starring women isn't automatically feminist and a movie with an LGBT character isn't necessarily an LGBT film. Reality Bites isn't an LGBT film but Love, Simon is. Kill Bill has themes that have been part of feminist film since it was a concept. If that doesn't make it a feminist film then I don't know what does. A movie about feminism more directly deals with feminism and its impact on women, the world, or its characters often in allegorical ways. A feminist movie doesn't, but it does have themes of and about women at their core. Thelma and Louise don't go around discussing their role in society and how they're going to change that. Beatrix Kiddo isn't marginalized or looked down on because of her gender. Yet both of those movies are feminist movies that aren't about feminism.

-Movies like Kill Bill fall in line with feminist ideals, but offer no significant dialogue on feminist themes, therefore they are not Feminist texts.

Of course not. They're feminist movies.

I see where you're coming from, I really do. And to an extent, I agree. But I also think that this flagrant simplification of genre, which is how I've been viewing this from the start, is harmful and wholly reductive.

It's not really simplification of genre. Kill Bill's genre isn't 'feminist'. Its themes are and the struggle of its protagonist is. Its genre is 'action', or more specifically 'martial arts'.

Underrated and Overrated Video Games

Does that include co-op or

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

@Fabricant451

I will attribute most inaccuracies to my terrible memory of the movie's characters and plot, which is strange, because my memories seem so vivid. I don't even remember half of the details you're referring to, including the parts where her comatose body was tossed around for sexual purposes.

@tex

His name is Buck and he's here to fuck.

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

But she is reasonable. It's not like she goes on a spree killing. By the time she gets to O-Ren she's killed the two people that raped her and no one else. Even with O-Ren, she only kills those who are ordered to kill her - and even then she doesn't kill all of them. She spares one and though many have lost limbs they aren't dead. She even sends Sophie, the protege, to a hospital after getting the information she needed. Her actual kill count is significantly less, she doesn't even kill one of the people on her hit list because Elle got to him first.

She expresses remorse and guilt when faced with the grief her actions cause on the innocent. She's not just some gleeful killing machine, she's not taking joy in her actions. When she went up against Vernita she offered a duel at midnight specifically because she didn't want Vernita's daughter to see it - which didn't go to plan because of Vernita's actions. She is still thoroughly human and shows her feminine side as well as her assassin side. She is not unstoppable, she's flawed, emotional, and still very much motherly and considerate. She's single minded, sure, but not at the expense of her entire being. She is vulnerable as well as hardened.

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

@tex My question wasn't rhetorical. What would you do in her situation if not go after the ones who put you in that position.

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

Suddenly her quest to seek out and destroy the vipers is absolutely idiotic and spiteful. I don't think for a second that any notion of 'acquiring freedom' validates her choices as a character, at that point. But then the topic of conversation changes once again.

@tex

You're a highly trained assassin. You're pregnant with your mentor's child. You want out of the game but know that in this life the only way out is death. You fake your death, start your life anew, meet a guy, fall in love, get married. Suddenly the mentor you left behind, who loved you more than you loved him, shows up with all your assassin 'friends' to kill you, your fiance, the poor priest who is just doing his job, and the one who pulls the trigger on you is your mentor, even after telling him the baby is his. You survive. In your comatose state you're nearly killed again. You're also repeatedly raped by a nurse and he's starting to sell your comatose body for other people to rape. You wake up just before you're about to be raped again, killing both rapists.

So there you are. Highly trained but also coming out of a coma with the fresh memories being of the biggest betrayal of your life. What would you do in that situation? Go to the police and say "Hey, I'm an assassin and there's five assassins after me, send help?" Would you just accept everything that's happened to you with a shrug and go "Well at least I'm alive, on my way then?"

Her actions make sense given the character and the world the movie presents.