Galavani

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

4. nah he wasn't dogpiled, but there were certainly moments where I felt people ignored his arguments because they didn't have the answers to what he was saying. it's a common thing, it's natural.

@Buddha

I think the calling him a racist/white supremacist was a good example of that, its just not helpful.

But conversely, he came in extremely condescending in a thread which was honestly really civil, he made some good points about lovecraft and horror but had laced every post with a smug disregard to not only the original post, but to anyone who liked anything about Bioware.

I never called him a racist or anything but some of his comments did seem to come from a place of 'games suck when you hire women or minorities' as if no one female or non white gets any job on merit and its single handedly killing the games industry. I'm also certain there are probably a lot of women and non whites at CD Prokect Red that he's glossing over. Its not quite JonTron levels of redpill, but it points in some dodgy directions.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I've played Jade Empire, Dragon Age: Origins, and Mass Effect 2, and they were all plenty gay. If you complain that a character is bad because they are defined by their sexuality, race, or gender, you'd be right,

@ZB1996

Im sure this has been said before in the thread but Mass Effect 2 really isnt that gay. There are no gay romance options in ME2 unless you count a flirty kelly chambers doing a ridiculous striptease for both genders. As @Fabricant451 said, these are all characters way before their sexuality is introduced and the vast majority of them across these 3 games you've listed are straight.

However I agree with you on everything else for the most part.

no thread about lgbt in gaming can be complete if i dont put in my two cents

here goes

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

DONT HIRE COSPLAYING WOMEN TO BE LEAD ANIMATORS IF THEY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH MAKING VIDEOGAMES
DONT HIRE DEVELOPERS THAT TWEET ABOUT HATING WHITE PEOPLE
DONT BE A DICK IN GENERAL

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

The integration of LGBT people in Mass Effect Andromeda is laughable at best. My critique has nothing to do with their presence and everything to do with how poorly they were written in, which was lazily done and hinted purely at virtue signalling which I disagree with on principle.

Also Pugbutter made very good points and you guys seemed to ignore them on purpose but you guys all made good points too

there



hmmmm, actually, might be unexperienced or just a liar.... you decide

@Buddha

So a few things.

1. Absolutely agree with you 100% Manveer Heir is a white hating wannabe edgelord prick and doesnt deserve a job at 'inclusive' bioware. I assume his twitter feed wasnt the reason they hired him though, and he doesnt work there anymore which is good. Fuck him. However he was only one of many Gameplay Developers and I dont know if hiring him 'made andromeda shit' as the combat and a lot of the gameplay was actually one of its strong points.

2.Cosplay woman probably lied or exaggerated her position on her twitter profile but the reactionary hate campaign was no answer for it. The real animators have spoke out and said a large reasone for some of the cut corners in animation was because of prioritising more plot relevant cut scenes over side quests, still no excuse though, I think Andromeda was dissapointing in its presentation.

3. I dont think LGBT implementation was 'laughable' in Andromeda, at least no more laughable than the straight characters, I think the game in general suffers from a cheesy script, but I know what pandering is, they havent made characters 'gay for the sake of being gay' at least not anymore than any other Mass Effect game.

4. pugbutter clearly isnt a stupid guy, but the way he came in this thread attempting to be this force of logic and condescending badassery definitely did stink of some Anti-SJW, Right Leaning Sub Reddit Angst where he seemed more concerned with witty put-downs than actual debate. You cant throw around claims that you have incontrovertible evidence and then make claims that Bioware hires 'purple haired hippos' and CD Projekt Red largely doesn't give a fuck about 'women and brown people' and that's why they are better at making games, and expect to be taken seriously. I dont agree with calling him a racist out of the gate, but he wasnt exactly dog-piled or anything.

Just as a side note I really dont know how we got talking about the left wing and commies, this thread is about Mass Effect.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

This is basically the second coming of Jennifer Hepler from the Dragon Age 2 days. Only now instead of a woman who was not attractive and thus had no business making games it's purple haired hippos plucked from Tumblr.

@Fabricant451

And when they ARE attractive they equally have no place making games.

There is no pleasing them

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

You could make an argument that Cortez is pandering but it's less pandering and more BioWare didn't know how to write a gay person without having him say "I'm gay".

@Fabricant451

Hey, I liked Steve.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Fyre Unholy

The left is literally the sole reason why this crusty old fool is allowed to date white women. He should show some goddamn gratitude.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>
Literally no one in this thread has done this, nor insinuated that they share in that sentiment. Are you arguing with your own strawmen from the OP?

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

roleplayerguild.com/posts/4219335

@pugbutter

You may find this hard to believe but the internet is a lot bigger than this thread.

Thanks for finally linking me to the post, you didn't tag me in it.

Now reading the post I'm damn near convinced you don't know what incontrovertible evidence means.

All youve done is assert that Andromeda is poorly designed ( which in some ways it is). And blamed that on purple-haired hippopotamuses who supposedly work there. Its not much of an argument but it doesnt even hold up on its own merits because you havent identified if Bioware has hired these people before and EVERY GAME has been messed up because of it.

Are you saying that every Bioware game is as bad Mass Effect Andromeda, and if you arent saying that, can you please point to where they started hiring your purple hair hippo people and the quality began to suffer, some real evidence would be nice this time.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Open the hider. Pay particular attention to the dates.

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

I know you read the post because you quoted directly from the paragraph which explains the difference. Why pretend that you didn't?

And no, I don't draw an arbitrary line between the first three games and Andromeda. BioWare's descent has been slow and gradual, because swallowing the "SJWs buy games so we should cater to them instead of our core audience" meme didn't happen all at once.

@pugbutter

You clearly have me confused with someone else, you put no hiders in the post you tagged me in, double check yourself bud.

Your explanation of the difference between pandering and not pandering isnt evidence that ME Andromeda was doing things that ME1,2,3 wasnt doing.

But if youre just saying that Bioware OVERALL panders with damn near all of its modern games then I'm not actually arguing with you. Check my second post.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Dynamo Frokane

Your writing confused me to the point that I didn't know WHAT your stance was anymore actually.

Ad Hominem: You British people seem to have a way of writing that is so careful to not offend anybody that you end up sounding like you fully support both sides of an issue. Whereas with my post, I fully intended to come off sounding like a smarmy cunt towards SJWs.

@Mistiel

My stance is that the smug free speech warriors (who are SJWs in their own way) are accusing bioware of doing things that theyve been doing with all their other games.

Complaining that Andromeda is pro black and pro gay and hires progressives while ignoring that bioware has been doing that for every mass effect and dragon age game is just laughable.

But to be clear, I'm not actually an SJW and they have plenty of their own problems like complaining that Cora isnt gay even though she has a 'queer coded' haircut whatever the fuck that means.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Oh yes, because Jack is totally Bioware's acknowledgement of lesbians just as Miranda is their acknowledgement of hetero-normative women. Well I have news for you. Miranda can be just as lesbian and Jack can be just as straight. Bioware didn't have some agenda putting Jacob in to be one of the only black humans in the goddamn game.

@Mistiel

Just to be clear
Jack isn't a lesbian, I already told you people that. Shes Canonically Bisexual but only a male shepard can get with her.

But I think overall you are agreeing with me so yeah, cool.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

There is incontrovertible evidence that the Andromeda team pandered to certain demographics of people.

@pugbutter

I would love to see this evidence in all its incontrovertible-ness.

So even though ME1 still has bad writing and is a game for poopooheads overall, no one is being hypocritical for "forgetting" the Black and butch-lesbo characters in the first game.

@pugbutter

There were no black or butch lesbo squad members in the first game..... you mean the second game right?
And for the record there are no butch lesbians in ANY Mass Effect Game. Jack is bisexual but only romancable by a male Shepard and Cora Harper is straight.

But it's not "pandering" if a character just happens to be Black or gay, and if he has more traits to define his personality than just being from a certain demographic.

@pugbutter

So after a big wall of snarky text this is the crux of your argument.

You're asserting that ME2's (along with maybe ME1 and ME3) diverse characters were just a happy, natural coincidence and just 'happened' to be gay black whatever. But Andromeda somehow shoehorned them in to pander. So what is YOUR standard for what is 'happening' to be diverse and what is 'forcing' diversity?

Or better yet, why don't you provide some of that lovely incontrovertible evidence that you asserted was there but have yet to actually present.