SleepingSilence

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I am not downplaying depression. I have it. I am simply saying gender dysphoria can effect you far more when it comes to how society views you, and your own identity.

@POOHEAD189

I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, or as an afront. A lot of people have depression. But saying depression can't effect how one sees themselves or how others see and think about you. Is utterly laughable. Also, people are assholes to each other for far less. My point is, we shouldn't be telling people who are depressed, to "yeah kill yourself. the world would be better off without you? Can't change your opinion on that one, how you feel isn't because your brain, it's a reality that we can't stop you from improving and getting better."

Schizophrenics are volatile in their moods for good reason. Trans people are not.

@POOHEAD189

Actually, that's something I want answered. Because it always seems to be missed entirely. This protected class idea...where you can't say jokes or be rude to -this- specific group, because they cannot handle it. But, we should still totally treat them as equals. Either everyone is equal. Or we should treat others differently based on protected classes...

And the transgender community is very much apart of this double standard. You "have" to accept these people, use their preferred pronoun, let them have the bathroom they want, or you're destroying their lives. But, there is no mental problem. This is just like having the preferred sexual partner. Forget the boxing ordeal. The suicide rate. And the rest. It's a phantom concern.

(But like I said, studies show the suicide rate isn't due to discrimination. So it "being so different from depression" isn't very true at all. Doesn't matter how supportive everyone is or well off someone whose depressed may be, it can still lead to suicide. Same deal.)

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@POOHEAD189 I think I've been pretty clear on this matter...

"Special Privileges" are not given to all mental disorders. (Hell, even ones we do aren't often followed. I digress.) Nor does it grant front row to military and jobs that require the most fit and best among us to perform their duties.

We also don't try to make it -not- a mental disorder. We don't usually tell people that their delusions are real, or that the walls are really talking to them. Yes, it's not PC. But it is factual. Unlike the movement pretending depression doesn't even exist. Or people not knowing their head from their ass when it comes to the autistic spectrum. In these cases, we're trying to make it "self-identity" and all positive. Mixing it into homosexual lifestyles. But gays don't have a disturbingly high suicide rate. You don't have to give puberty blockers to three year old's, or lose custody of your children.

Last thing I posted.

Do you have any proof that transgendered people make the military lesser quality.

Do you know of any treatment/medication a transgendered person can get to help them feel at home enough in their own body to have no problems as long as they take it? Do you know what it is like to walk into a room designated for a person you feel with all your being you should be, but physically aren't? Depression can be used as an analogy to gender dysphoria for a few things, but this is not one of them. Gender is far more prevalent in society and cultural outlook than whether you are depressed or not.

@POOHEAD189

I think asking that question is missing the forest from the trees. Do we have proof that schizophrenics have a long track record of not being good soldiers? Well, no. Usually, because we don't let them in, in the first place.

Also, depression is a hell of a lot more important than gender politics. But that's just me, and the rising teen suicide rate talking. But we've already seen studies disprove that "acceptance" and going through with surgery/replacement therapy helps matters, when we determine their suicide rate statistics. And saying gender dysphoria is somehow much different from depression, is the kind of downplaying depression and making transgender some kind of special flower ideal, I was just talking about.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I did not contradict myself. I merely revealed how you (if I read your and Harbs arguments correctly) were contradictory.

1. This is a person who has a condition.

or

2. Perfectly normal human beings are switching up their genders, and if that is the case then that is just society.

You can't have both. Which do you think it is.

@POOHEAD189

You certainly didn't. But are you telling me, every single person whose transgender is the same? Is it not possible, that some people have genuine gender dysphoria. And the six year old wanting to be a boy or girl, may just be wanting some attention?

So yes, you CAN have both. Some can be mentally ill. Others can be doing it for attention. But let's be frank, most people don't care about the bathroom thing. When we're talking about military jobs, there's a bigger issue at hand here. And if you want to tell me something is contradictory, I want direct quotes.

(And in all seriousness, we should absolutely not pass laws, just because we haven't tried it yet...)

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Thank you for answering my query. (Didn't have much to add, but felt rude not to acknowledge that I read your response.)

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Dynamo Frokane Maybe, just maybe. Apples aren't always comparable to oranges. It would only be the same, if both were to bring up the exact same topic. And both behaved the exact same way in regards to debates. Just the connection that neither will change any minds, doesn't instantly connect both people. So, maybe unlike "I think race is so important, muh bike". He had more to say and contribute to the idea of transgenders in military service. :)

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Also, I wasn't going to post this, since it's off topic. But...yeah.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

• Stick to the narrative that transgendered people are mentally ill, which means they should be allowed special privileges.
• Or they are not mentally ill, which means all genders are fluid and validated.

@POOHEAD189

Okay there's a lot of holes in that one.

First, you already contradicted yourself on that matter. Assuming there's no real science, thus no real problem, behind "gender fluid" stuff. But the very same thing can be said for the entire gender spectrum.

"Special Privileges" are not given to all mental disorders. (Hell, even ones we do aren't often followed. I digress.) Nor does it grant front row to military and jobs that require the most fit and best among us to perform their duties.

We also don't try to make it -not- a mental disorder. We don't usually tell people that their delusions are real, or that the walls are really talking to them. Yes, it's not PC. But it is factual. Unlike the movement pretending depression doesn't even exist. Or people not knowing their head from their ass when it comes to the autistic spectrum. In these cases, we're trying to make it "self-identity" and all positive. Mixing it into homosexual lifestyles. But gays don't have a disturbingly high suicide rate. You don't have to give puberty blockers to three year old's, or lose custody of your children.

dailysignal.com/2018/02/19/parents-ju…

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4743036/…

Do what you want as an adult. I'm not judging you personally. But as a statistic. These numbers and the narrative being pushed and what's unfolding right now in our current culture. Instead of even trying to be honest. Is just disgusting...

There's only one way to find out.

@POOHEAD189

- Said by most Darwin Award winners. <.<'

I know that seems like a lax stance when you are concerned about dangerous criminals, but then something something gun rights.

@POOHEAD189

Something something 2nd amendment and federal background checks already exist for all states. Trump is banning bump stocks because he knows a lot. something sarcasm something.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Because the current conversation you were having was going nowhere. By no fault of your own. Just for curiosity sake. (Forgive me if this has already been addressed, I haven't read everything.)

Do you feel ones actively already in the military and serving without problems now. Could/Should be punished by removal from their service. Based on the potential of being incapable? If such a bill was proposed.

Or do you feel like the acceptance process has already been conducted once, ergo anything (if it was) threatening active members. Something like, Don't Ask, Don't Tell. (Which started under the Clinton administration.) Wouldn't be acceptable, or the desired outcome, right?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>
I think the context is: If someone has gender dysphoria, they should be allowed to use the restroom they identify with.

I can see some potential problems if someone claims to be gender fluid, but that's just assuming the person is dishonest. And since there is no data that supports there have been any real issues in states that have allowed such things, then I'd say it's a nonissue.

@POOHEAD189

Just to point out really quick, I'm not one of those people that think, if you let transgenders use whatever bathroom they want legally based on just taking them at their word. That somehow, the transgenders will suddenly commit an endless spree of unspeakable actions with their actual disorder as a cover.

I'm someone who thinks, that perverted criminals, if given the option to get off scott-free with getting into their preferred bathroom of arousal. If all they need to do, to immediately not be punished, is to claim "i'm different I swear." Then just maybe out laws shouldn't be implemented so vaguely.

And what I just described, certainly isn't a non-issue.

But seriously, on the transgender military thing. No one currently in the military should be effected, and I don't think the law would have done so either. Not sure if the new one proposed is any different or even tangible. But ignoring the fact the military is strict and should be when accepting, is disingenuous. Which certainly feels like how that conversation was going.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I don't believe anyone has claimed trans people are asking for more rights than a cisgendered citizen.

@POOHEAD189

I guess if you want to stretch and allow bathrooms to be strictly non-binary. If you claim to be "gender fluid", you now have more legal rights/access than your average citizen. And if you want to push someone with a mental health issue in the front lines of acceptance, label those that disagree with it as hateful, when military is strict to all health problems. It's kind of doing so, for a political agenda...

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Penny Being 99.99 percent sure of something without evidence, sounds like a delusion. :)

I did manage to get past the first paragraph of tortured prose.

@Penny

Are you critiquing a book? Or the idea that's transgenders have a statistical likelihood to be mentally unstable and therefore unfit to serve by our standards. When people with ADHD, something far more harmless and manageable, won't get hired in the military now. ^-^