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Hidden 9 days ago 9 days ago Post by catchamber
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<Snipped quote by catchamber>

Not getting into whose wrong or right. But even him being at that place, when it happened wouldn't change that. Most people cannot cover a whole protest or rally 24/7. It would still become anecdotal evidence anyway.

So, you're asking for evidence, that even if he directly gave you. (Like some recording on the event that showed, for as long as he was around and where he was. He still likely could not give you an 100% certainty.) So you wouldn't be satisfied with it. So you shouldn't ask for evidence, if it something that wouldn't effect your opinion about it.

So as @mdk said. It sort of is-getting into an impossible burden of proof fallacy. Whether you believe so or not.

Though just skimming through Warsaw online. I'm getting a shit ton of conflicting stuff in exactly what went down. There was a celebration for Trump's arrival, a fight over an abortion law and apparently this random far right protest too? Poor Poland. <.< *i could be mistaken about this I did say skimmed*


Andreyich could prove that he was there, and that he observed little to no calls for genocide by the people present. I'm not asking for evidence that everyone or no one at the rally acted one way or another. He's claiming to have observed such circumstances, and any evidence that he gathered while there which supports that claim would be appreciated.

TLDR: Why should I believe that Andreyich was there, if he won't prove it?
Hidden 9 days ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@catchamber I'm not saying you should believe him. I was merely talking about the previous point about the rally. Even if he proved he was at the rally. He couldn't 100% proof, no one their wanted or said anything, or had any sign promoting or implying genocidal intent. Though a protest rally with people wearing nothing but masks, doesn't tend to go peachy keen.

Hidden 9 days ago Post by catchamber
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@SleepingSilence Proving that he was there would be a nice start.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by Kratesis
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TLDR: Why should I believe that Andreyich was there, if he won't prove it?


Isolated demand for rigor. Burden of proof falls upon you in this case Catchamber.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by catchamber
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<Snipped quote by catchamber>

Isolated demand for rigor. Burden of proof falls upon you in this case Catchamber.

I'm not trying to prove anything, though.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by Andreyich
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Prove it, or it's irrelevant hearsay.

Ahh, casually skimming over the fact that what I brought up relevant to me being there is what I need for my opinion. No, see the thing is that you still have to bring up reasoning for why indeed the people there are bad boys which you haven't done. But I reckon you'll keep skimming around the issue, as usual. catchamber bullshittery strikes yet again.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by catchamber
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<Snipped quote>
Ahh, casually skimming over the fact that what I brought up relevant to me being there is what I need for my opinion. No, see the thing is that you still have to bring up reasoning for why indeed the people there are bad boys which you haven't done. But I reckon you'll keep skimming around the issue, as usual. catchamber bullshittery strikes yet again.

Assuming I actually agree with the claim that the people there are bad boys, which I don't, as I'm completely neutral.

So, you gonna prove that you were there or not?
Hidden 9 days ago Post by Andreyich
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<Snipped quote by Andreyich>
Assuming I actually agree with the claim that the people there are bad boys, which I don't, as I'm completely neutral.

So, you gonna prove that you were there or not?


I forgot you're so enlightened you think far-right is a neutral term

I'm back over the border so I can't, but that wouldn't make a difference I reckon
Hidden 9 days ago Post by Kratesis
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<Snipped quote by Kratesis>
I'm not trying to prove anything, though.


Indeed and that is the problem. Andre has made a claim, that he was present at a place and time in which many other people were present. This is a believable claim given our knowledge of Andre; he lives in that part of the world, is interested in politics and so forth.

Now you arrive with the charge that Andre was not, in fact, present. Well, semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit. You have laid the charge, now you must provide evidence.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by Kassarock
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@Andreyich Oh yeah you're from Belarus right? Which raises the question, I suppose, why did you attend the march?
Hidden 9 days ago Post by Andreyich
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@Andreyich Oh yeah you're from Belarus right? Which raises the question, I suppose, why did you attend the march?


Polish great-grandfather, Polish friends, respect for Poles and Poland.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by IceHeart
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I'm pretty bummed I didn't check out Warsaw on Independence Day there, would have been fun if I had just been paying a little more attention or looked up holidays online or something. That said I do remember hearing what sounded like celebratory gunshots that weekend and got to see a mini 'parade' with horses and a cart right outside my window. Course it was only afterward that I realized what it was all about.

Poland's a pretty nice place if you ever end up staying there for a bit. Haven't been here long enough to really say too much about local politics but...there is a particular building in Warsaw called the "Palace of Culture and Science" that everyone loves to joke about as being "Stalin's Gift". So in the heart of Poland is literally the largest Red-Pill ever constructed. People walking around Poland pretty much can't avoid seeing this huge reminder of just how much it sucked to be under communism.

Fun facts.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by catchamber
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<Snipped quote by catchamber>

I forgot you're so enlightened you think far-right is a neutral term

I'm back over the border so I can't, but that wouldn't make a difference I reckon

That's too bad. I was hoping to get more than just hearsay from you, given you felt the need to personally attend rallies at Warsaw.

<Snipped quote by catchamber>

Indeed and that is the problem. Andre has made a claim, that he was present at a place and time in which many other people were present. This is a believable claim given our knowledge of Andre; he lives in that part of the world, is interested in politics and so forth.

Now you arrive with the charge that Andre was not, in fact, present. Well, semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit. You have laid the charge, now you must provide evidence.

I actually don't know where he's from, so it's not believable to me. I'm also not saying Andreyich wasn't there, so I don't need to provide any evidence. I'm asking him to prove that he was, but he obviously won't do it. What a shame.
Hidden 9 days ago Post by mdk
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mdk 3/4

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Just so everyone knows ahead of December.
Hidden 8 days ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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TLDR: Why should I believe that Andreyich was there, if he won't prove it?


I have made note of this issue before with you, that if you stand to make an accusation, it is your task - not ours - to support your rationale. For the rest of us here, it is almost assuredly based on what we know of the person in question's character that they would attend and have the means to. However, while you might not be expected to know this, it should go without saying that we generally trust the claims of other users who have a fairly reasonable record for experiencing what they say. Now of course they could like, but that is why we view their person in whole; it tells us such an outcome is unlikely.

Regardless, it brings us to another point, or at least myself. Proof is never enough for you, @catchamber. Even if he provided you proof, knowing your tact of debate, you would then say something roughly along the lines of "Okay, so he was there, but did he see these other things?", quite rapidly and expectedly it would become a matter of "How were you not everywhere at once?" or "I have these things that say something happened, so your first hand experience is bunk."

Not to dwell on this anymore, as virtually the entire topic and its members have more or less said the same thing, but this habit of yours is one of several why your credibility has been shot.

I digress, moving on to @mdk's post, that I am honestly surprised it took them so long to outlaw fictional Stormtroopers because they share a name and concept with the actual Stormtroopers. Who would have thought the Empire, portrayed as evil and a fictional personification of fascism would have leaning toward Nazis! I am so relieved to know a college was able to decipher this for us and that it in our "new enlightened age in the educational system", opted to prevent people from attending a mass dress-up with them included.
Hidden 8 days ago Post by Kassarock
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@The Harbinger of Ferocity

Reading that article, I see that this is a decision taken by a class reunion committee, but is this is any way actually endorsed/sponsored by the university in an official capacity?

A lot of the time (at least in my experience) people who do the whole 'universities destroying freeze peach' thing often conflate student associations or student unions with universities themselves. The latter are (and should be) accountable public institutions, the former however can be akin to private member clubs. In the UK they have different governing structures, and even come under different sections of the law (UK student unions are administered by charity law). Point is I think its disingenuous to tar a college or university as a whole based on something that quasi-affiliated groups do, even if (as in this case) I think the decision is fucking stupid.
Hidden 8 days ago 8 days ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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Regardless of its sponsorship or lack thereof, it goes to demonstrate the mentality of those persons involved. If it is an official function and forum, as it appears to be, this is one of those easily exploitable, flawed systems of the current educational enterprise. If it is entirely the decision of the students, only using the facility and their prior involvement as a point to gather, it sits less poor off, but still betrays their character, especially with regard to the students they groom, @Kassarock.

The whole conflation as you called it has a valid argument and more valid sentiment; these institutions allow or in worse cases, encourage or endorse this behavior. If I was to step aside and view a such a place as a sum of it's parts, what am I to think about students who feel fictional soldiers of a science-fantasy universe are "Too much like Nazis and thus need to be banned."? Given this hypothetical is asking of me my opinion, and my less than stellar perspective on the entirety of the education system from pre-education up to college, I would say this is a perfectly good sample of what is wrong with it. These children, for lack of better words, cannot tolerate anything outside their realm of comfort and are often coddled by professors and staff who have an agenda of indoctrination.

If such organizations are allowed to be public at all, or even private, they perfectly deserve scrutiny and especially ridicule when appropriate. I add to this that, more importantly, that it is a laughing matter at minimum. It is not about to change my opinion of them - the censoring of legitimate free speech in the halls of education at all levels has much more my ire as a whole - but if I wish to think less of people over such forged "controversy" I will. They are free to have and voice their opinions, even if bad ones, just as I am entitled to reply with my own.

As an addition for frame of reference, I view most college students and graduates, at least in our current era, as spoiled children who haven't had to experience much of reality or confront it. Granted not all are this way, but I have low expectations for their lot until generally impressed. Needless to say, few people impress me at all.
Hidden 8 days ago Post by Andreyich
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That's too bad. I was hoping to get more than just hearsay from you, given you felt the need to personally attend rallies at Warsaw.

To contrast, I didn't expect anything other than whining and goalposts shifting from you.
Hidden 8 days ago Post by SleepingSilence
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Just to stay on topic of protest. Well not really I just wanted to vent.

Snopes just lied about the circumstances of Blaire White being attacked. Their even further dead to me than I could ever imagined.

"They walked across a line in a public street, that incited the violence, and made it okay." F*ck off snopes.

Hidden 8 days ago Post by Dark Wind
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