Ammokkx

Conflict's Chime

---

"...Huh?"

Shivers ran up Shizuku's spine as the other girl told her she could hear Cross' voice. "I-... I didn't..." she stammered out, at a loss for what to say in the moment. However, when the other girl began lamenting about how she wouldn't be able to beat Shizuku, a different feeling took the place of that fear: Understanding. This girl must have been the same as her. "Ah... I see," Shizuku said. "I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking clearly when I approached you."

Giving Fujiko a sad smile, Shizuku opened up her bag again. She reached into it, taking out her cellphone to slip Cross out of his confinement. Holding the card in front of herself, the boy briefly glanced at Shizuku from inside. He then closed his eyes and turned his head away. "His name is Cross. He's usually like this," she giggled, turning him around to face Fujiko.

"She wouldn't battle you even if she could," he replied in a dismissive tone. "Shizuku's been refusing every chance she got, ever since entering this game."

Shizuku couldn't refute that one, as it was all too true. Wanting to move on from the topic, she said: "Um... you're the first person I've met who's also an architect. Maybe... if it would be okay with you, would you want to come to a card shop with me after school?"

Danganronpa Alternate: Apologies to Hope (Reboot) [Deader than Disco]

Momoe, Ayu, Taka

Chikako's brutal execution lead to an uproar in the courtroom. Most of them didn't get along before this point, but the reality of the situation had made the tensions between every student a lot worse. Momoe was surprisingly silent during all of it, simply staring up at the monitor with her one eye narrowed in disgust. The pockets of her coat bulged slightly as she kept her hands hidden in them.

Before Chikako's demise, Ayu had walked over next to Hiroki. After it, she'd asked a brief "Are you okay?" of him when the boy emptied out his gut all over the floor. While Ayu still didn't have much of any notable expression on her face, she also couldn't look anyone straight in the eye after what everyone witnessed. She didn't speak up when Hiroki was lashing out, either. The girl just trailed behind him like a lost puppy. At one point it looked like she wanted to reach a hand out to the boy in reassurance, but hesitated and withdrew. Before long, the both of them were standing right in front of Shirou. "...It's okay," she softly said to Hiroki. "You don't have to listen. Let's return to our rooms and rest."

On the other end of the room, Taka stood frozen and speechless through all of what had been transpiring. He'd looked from Hibiki to Shirou and then Hiroki, powerless to stop the petty squabbling. He turned his head to the right. Momoe was still motionless. "What about you, huh?" he asked her, "Don't you usually have some smartass thing to say here?" The girl turned around, lazily glanced Taka's way and then walked past him, back to the elevator. "Wha- hey, you can't just ignore me!" he shouted back, though Momoe hardly cared. Taka clenched both his fists and his teeth, boiling inside. Nobody else was paying attention to him, either. _{"Damnit...! Why can't I do anything?!"} he muttered to himself, fuming, as he also made his way to the elevator.

The Worst Writing Advice

Well, this thread is about to be locked pretty soon. lol

@Mao Mao

As long as it doesn't get hidden I'm good.

The Worst Writing Advice

Me yesterday: Hahaha having friendly discourse about the nature of bad writing advice is fun!

Me today:
_{What have I done?}

@BrokenPromise

The train has not just derailed, it got turned on its fucking head.

The Worst Writing Advice

Honestly, most of the writing advice here people post here are either people misconstruing what are meant to be guidelines towards writing and instead, taking them to heart in a draconian manner. None of the rules mentioned here are necessarily wrong, per se, barring a few minor wishy-washy platitudes. When mishandled improperly or misinterpreted, that's when the problems begin.

@Bork Lazer

That's the thing, though. They are often misinterpreted and used in a draconian manner.

I agree that the spirit of the message isn't wrong, but I also can't deny that the way I've seen these sentiments echoed and used have been in exactly the way described right here in this thread. Quite simply put, these rules get told in their short and easy to grasp on a surface level forms. The problem, then, is that people who don't understand the deeper meaning to them take them too far. Those people, then, tell this advice further without knowing how to apply it themselves.

Personally, because of stuff like this, I'd be extremely careful with these "guidelines" because people properly fail to explain them. You should always take the TED talk route with stuff like this, where these rules are just a title to a much longer explanation. They often aren't, though, and that's what makes it bad advice.

The Worst Writing Advice

I'm also going to say that if someone is writing "to make art" they're doing it for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't write to make art, you should write to express something that has meaning to you, regardless of how "artsy" that is. I've never met someone who reads books for the prose, its about the story and the message, regardless of how that's presented. I don't think it's about mass appeal or trying to be popular, because if using simple prose made things more popular then Ayn Rand wouldn't have so many fans. Some of the best fiction doesn't do anything extraordinary with its prose. 1984 has very basic prose when you look at it but that doesn't make it any less emotionally draining a read.

@Bluetommy

The statement "Writing to make art" was me saying in a tongue-and-cheek-way that the people who'd avoid "Said" at every cost wouldn't be on a roleplaying forum because they're too busy revolutionising the medium of text.

People who write as an artform don't exactly make books like 1984, at any rate. They're using and abusing literature in different ways, and the most common form to show this with is poetry.

Writing can absolutely be an artform, but the kind of people who'd do that, and thus avoid the mundane usage of words as we do it, woudln't be here on a fucking RP forum. Therefor, just use Said.

I realise it's a bit disconnected from the whole "bad advice" context of the thread, but that's also why it's a rant and I didn't write it out at first until Broken very clearly didn't know what I was on about for a moment.

Also, rants like that are written at the dead of night for me when I'm low on brain juice. Certain details slip my mind in those moments.

EDITS: To clarify a bit further; the statement "If it is literally any other reason" is meant to indicate that, outside of that very specific context, it's fine to rely on 'Said' as a word. And I doubt even a single person on this site unironically considers himself to be writing art, thus, they should be comfortable using the word "Said". Get the idea, now?

The Worst Writing Advice

...acknowledges "Said" is a fine word to effectively convey dialogue...

@Ammokkx

Anyway, writing is a very subjective thing and almost every rule you can think of has a time and place where it works and doesn't work... Just like "don't use said."

@BrokenPromise

??????

@BrokenPromise

Oh, fine. If you want the rant, you'll get the rant.

"Don't use said," phrased in that way, is inherently bad advise. "Said" is not only a fine word, but needlessly forcing yourself not to use it is not only an exercise in frustration and futility, but also incredibly obnoxious.

Ask yourself this: Why are you writing? If the answer is "To make art" then, yes, you should absolutely avoid 'said,' but you'd also need to do much more than that. You'd not only need an extensive grip of the language you are writing in with all its peculiarities and commons, but also fundamentally understand that which you will be writing will not be appreciated by an audience at large. You are actively trying to elevate the medium beyond the realm of normal consumption and would, thus, use extremely thought-out and uncommon words and sentence structures. That, or you go the complete other direction and boil it down to sound poems. Either way, you're going deliberately out of your way to avoid the mundane with purpose.

If it is literally anything else, don't purposefully try to avoid "Said."

While a big audience can definitely swallow some big words, the most appealing literature to the masses is also written in simple language. It is not about expanding the words you use, but about using the words you already know well. It's fine to strive to expand your vocabulary, but it need not be a goal. A lot of successful books have been written in very basic language that a lot of people can understand, and this is by design.

By telling a person they should avoid a word wholesale without explaining why, you're entirely missing the point. Even then, you shouldn't be telling them to avoid the word to begin with. The thing you should say isn't "Don't use said". What you should say is "Use said in these contexts" as that is not only far more useful advice, but also makes the fledgling writer think about the why and how of their writing.

And, to tie it into KISS, don't think too hard about your writing. "Don't think about it at all" is not what I'm saying here, though. I'm saying you should definitely give issues like these some though, but never get caught up in them. If you really struggle to effectively write without relying on some words, then just use those words. There aren't only a lot of options in how to phrase a sentence, but there's also a lot of ways to manipulate your own mannerisms into something readable and workable.

Source: I don't follow any of my own advice and my writing is fucking garbage because of it.

The Worst Writing Advice

@Ammokkx I actually like to skip said and just describe an action, which works for the most part.

<Snipped quote>

There are lots of options.

Anyway, writing is a very subjective thing and almost every rule you can think of has a time and place where it works and doesn't work. Just like "show, don't tell," Just like "write what you know," Just like "don't use said."

@BrokenPromise

I also have one golden rule that trumps all.

KISS.

Keep it simple, stupid.

Anyway, I had this entire thing written up but instead I'll just point out that the very image you linked has a small section where it, itself, acknowledges "Said" is a fine word to effectively convey dialogue. The alternatives, by its own admission, should only be used sparingly, and preferably in the rough contexts under which they are categorized.

The Worst Writing Advice

There are more interesting alternatives TBH.

@BrokenPromise

The problem with thesaurus-shorthands like these is that they often feel very unnatural in most people's writing and takes away from the inherent simplicity that makes it pleasing to read in the first place. A vast majority of them go unused because despite appearing elegant on the surface, they're actually clumsy as hell to pour into sentences.

(I don't actually have anything to add to the conceit of this thread because I can't remember any genuinely and blatantly bad writing advice I've gotten.)

Feeling ignored. Part 2.

Aommokkx

@Majora

Aommokkx

@NesyExecutive

okay, so i know people generally don't know how to pronounce my username

but this one's new even for me