Dinh AaronMk

I saw Atlantis: Lost Empire for the first time the other day

Well, then watch Prince of Egypt. A good religious movie with amazing animations and badass songs.

@The Spectre

tfw this movie and the Multicolor coat movie was my childhood.

Comedy On A Thread (Revive of the Revive)

Yo, track day, bro

Track day, bro. You going to the track day, bro? Let's go to the track day.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Dinh AaronMk

1) Communism generally removes individual incentives. Some people might think this is a benefit, since it eliminates greed and inequality, but it also destroys any sort of incentive to work hard. When you are compensated roughly the same regardless of how much you work, how strong you are, or how smart you are, why would anyone put in more than the minimal effort? Game theory works well here: if 1000 people work hard, everyone is 1000 times better off...until one person realizes he can do the bare minimum and still reap the rewards. Then the second, then the third, etc.

@Dynamo Frokane

Most communists today aside from Tankies or even Nazbols are going to argue that removing individual incentives is a bad idea, looking back on the Soviet Union and comparing their policies to policies similar to that of say Yugoslavia. One of the lines I've heard used to argues against this very point isn't so much equality of outcomes but equality of access. But also the opportunity to own more of your own labor by awarding the workers with more a share of the final output of their production in a system that would be compared to today's profit sharing; the better their shop has performed in creating something that is purchased the more they are paid. There's a material incentive for the individual to see to that things get better.

And while you can pull the whole Game Theory thing on this with the one guy realizing he can coast on fumes while everyone burns through everything, that's already a thing in today's 'capitalist' workforce. When someone can disappear into the sea of numbers that is the employed and dodge their bosses well enough no one can tell how much this person did or did not do, so he gets paid the same rate as everyone else.

2) Removing private property also removes the incentive to maximize its use. When no one "owns" it no one will take care of it.

@Dynamo Frokane

Hardly.

The point of a communalized farm for instance is to put everyone's resources into one basket so that everyone has more than they had as if they were going it alone. It's unlikely anyone is going to need a specific something all at the same time. And putting their head and effort together to maximize the profit of the commune they're as encouraged to do more and can consider and seek avenues to not only cut their own labor, but make more as worker-owners.

The process would be very much like automated factories, or the automated farms that are so much a thing in Texas and Oklahoma. But instead of forcing hundreds out of their family homes because there's no economic benefit to being there, and they'll have to try their hands at being a grocery store bag-man these individuals forced off still reap the benefits of the land by owning it together as a community. And having worked or presently working the land they already have more right to it than some asshole in a mansion in Houston's suburbs.

Present experiments in the US in cooperatively controlled businesses also lend support to this. While they might be slow in decision making because of consent of all - or most - of the employees there they honestly become more a haven of innovation and creativity than the regimented and impersonal world of traditional business structure; where while the top may make a quick decision, it may not be the right decision or the most innovative and is clouded by the ego of the individual on top.

While that seems small, US Company Gore operates on a model very similar, and they're the company to make the high-tech fabrics that go into army coats, raincoats, fire-fighter's equipment, tubing for cars, and any high-tech material for computers and space. As I heard it in the book Tipping Point, even the owner identifies himself as an Associate, along with everyone else. Their organizational structure is very flat and democratic, and it's been working.

3) Prices. Prices are a perfect way to signal supply and demand. It is impossible for a central planner to determine the preferences of each individual in a nation...but free pricing can.

@Dynamo Frokane

Again, not all communists are going to necessarily argue we can't have a market, at least not at the present pre-scarcity moment. The point of communism through socialism is to achieve a post-scarcity world where everyone owns without restraint of economic class the results of, and the means of production. In that one no single individual or group of individuals can hold the larger population hostage by leveeing unnecessary controls.

Anarcho-Mutualists, Communists, and Syndicalists would even argue to remove labor all together from the equation and let us live as artists.

In order to make any of these things work, you need a dictatorship to force people to do so. Not working hard enough? If the people's paradise doesn't motivate you, maybe the gulag will. Supply and demand not right? The government is forced to step in.

@Dynamo Frokane

As I've included above, no you don't.

Going back to Gore one of the things that makes them unique is they split their factories every time the associate population rises above a hundred a fifty. As one associate put it, "When people start parking on the grass, we know it's time to split".

A community can manage itself to work towards a shared goal.

The above things may be doable on a small scale, but only if people have the choice to buy in. If you force entire nations to do so, it is going to be impossible to move out of the communist dictatorship; you will always need the force of law to make people not follow the "natural" psychology of supply and demand and incentives. I can't think of any practical way that the state will ever wither away.

@Dynamo Frokane

Small scale is pretty much the point.

Horrors of Mongolian Conquest. [MIDDLE AGES]

Nestor Makhno sat in Ukraine and looked east. What he saw angered him. There wasn't enough liberty.

"Simon," he said, "Get my Tachanka."

And then the Ukrainians had horse-drawn machine gun chariots.

The American Spring: An Alternate Present RP

Michigan

Somewhere South of Saint Joseph

John Lennon sang the lyrics to Imagine as a line of trucks thundered along a snowy highway. A light snowfall was coming down across the Michigan landscape, and even though they were on an open highway the long trailing convoy moved at a steady thirty-five through accumulating snow. With the heat of exhaust and the pulverization of tires much if it was turning to slush, but it was only a narrow half of the south-west bound lane of I-94. Traffic along the highway had slowly died off as they got off and turned away from Saint Joseph. But since the beginning of the breakdown of the country traffic in general had steadily slowed.

The steadily falling demand for it and the rising expense of it had too affected the course of road utility work. Snow plows were vacant from the road. The interstate would be nigh impassable for the convoy then if it wasn't for the equipment up front. Far ahead of the main spread-out body of automobiles commandeered trucks swept aside the snow as they lead the vanguard towards Indiana. Light chatter on the radio reported regularly in on the vehicles progress as they cleared the way south.

Staring out through the windows of an old and repurposed police cruiser a car full of men with their assault rifles laying across their laps looked out at the winter landscape. The trees on either side stood barren and gray, their branches coated in fresh fallen snow. At odd moments one would look up, thinking he could see the dull gun-metal gray shine of Lake Michigan beyond the tree line and hills.

“Do we know what we're doing?” the driver said over John Lennon.

His compatriots turned and looked over at with silent glares.

“I take it then that's my invitation for some exposition.” he said with a forced smile. He momentarily glanced to his side and behind to his companions. The driver wore a pair of black sunglasses in front of normal glasses to guard against the light reflected by the snow. Wild dark-colored hair hung down from under a rolled up balaclava and the collar of a heavy dark colored winter coat was popped and tucked tight around his neck, his bearded chin resting over it.

“We need to relieve Chicago.” he began, “But to do that we need to hit Michigan City and South Bend, both towns are quarters for divisions of the regular army rolled in to back up the state militia to try and restore some order. White House's orders, no doubt. We're going to punch a hole in and through Gary to take the Federals in from behind. The general Michigan Militia will handle South Bend.”

“I think Amir asked if we were expecting anything from Ohio way. Is that true?”

“It's always likely. But that is being watched. But it's more likely at the moment that Chicago will be a higher priority than Detroit. But we're juggling a few things at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if Bat'ko sends us a request for help out east.”

“Will we be dropping this then in that case?”

The driver shrugged. “Mmmaybe.” he said indifferently, “I want to see how it's going to pan out when we get there.

“I want to see if we can scare them up at the border line and how fidgety they are first.”

“Then do you think they don't know what's going on?” he was asked with a laugh.

“Fuck, I don't think anyone knows what's up.” the driver grinned, “I heard they've flown a few planes over Chicago acting like they're going to drop a bomb but then had second thoughts and turned around. I'm willing to bet they don't know if they're actually hitting civilians or not.”

“I don't imagine we'll have an issue with planes if that's the case.”

“Maybe not. But if we start shooting and turning captured guns on them then it's very likely they'll figure it out.”

“Isn't there an airbase at South Bend? If we're going to worry about airstrikes then we should hold off and coordinate with the others. That way they need to pick and choose between us.”

“I was thinking just that.” the Driver said.

“So we're seeing how jumpy they're going to be, and waiting for action to heat up in South Bend? Boss, do you have idea what's going on?”

“As I said, I don't think anyone knows what's going on.” the driver said with a defeated sigh.

Illinois

Chicago

From the top floor of an empty office building a dull glow could be seen in the distance. Something had hit something, that's all that could be gained from it. But even in the overcast snowy afternoon the black smoke that rose up over the horizon was clear and orange as distant and faded as it was. Standing with his arms cross behind his back a hooded man stood erect as he looked out that way.

A man entered through the door behind him.

“He tried.” the newcomer announced, breaking the silent din.

The hooded man turned. His face was hidden behind a skimask, his frame buried under a heavy green nylon winter coat. It was cold in the skyscraper, the AC had been turned off when the bankers and the like fled town; But everything else worked. He nodded to him.

Behind the mask his face was painted over with a heavy application of mascara, which hid the color of his skin and of his race. All that remained were a pair of sharp green eyes. “I didn't suppose he would.” he said in a heavy, yet soft voice, “But it needed to be said. We'll need to try again when they settle in out of harm's way.”

“Until then, how many months of cold and fuel oil rationing? Two, three? The rest of winter?” the other man said. Unlike his commander he went without a mask. He was a heavy set figure with a well defined frame. His cheek bones looked particularly prominent, and it squared away his face.

Bat'ko 2 shrugged. “We do what we need to do.”

Stepping by his side the new man joined up to look out the window. “I heard a artillery shell hit a warehouse at the edge of town.” he remarked with a wistful and distant voice, “It was full of chemicals and stuff, I don't know exactly what. But between the explosion and leaking containers something lit up and the fire's been burning for some four hours now.”

“I noticed. Whose stopping it?” Bat'ko asked.

“No one right now.” the other man said, “There is no one to try to stop it. At least none that can get there. They've settled themselves to try and contain the fire and let it burn itself out. They reckon it might go for a while.”

The two stood in silence as they watched the distant fires burn on. After awhile the other spoke, “Word on the Dark Horse came through.” he said, “Someone managed to call when he got to Kalamazoo.”

“What's he doing?” Bat'ko asked.

“I don't know, he was vague on the subject I hear. If anything I would say he doesn't have much of a plan and is making it up as he was going along. But he had stopped to let his men have a bite to eat.

“The Michigan militia was much more clear about their plans. General Parsaksi is pretty clear on hitting South Bend. He want to raid the military depots there and hopefully break the army's communication systems.”

“He'll need to do more than that to do it.”

“Well, way he put it he's breaking off links until he's certain their deaf and blind.”

The American Spring: An Alternate Present RP

@NecroKnight

Nope.

god cant stop me

That feel when it hasn't been remixed all to hell yet.

I saw Atlantis: Lost Empire for the first time the other day

SKINNY-FAT UGLIER THAN FAT?

What exactly is skinny fat?

@SleepingSilence

You have a healthy weight for your height but your fat to muscle ratio is high. Remedy this through working out to remove the fat and re-balance fat-to-muscle ratio.