shylarah

<Insert Name; Will Edit Once Not Busy> {Hang-out Thread}

@Shoryu Magami PICTURES OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

EDIT: Actually in this case I think I need video. =P

<Insert Name; Will Edit Once Not Busy> {Hang-out Thread}

@Ailyn Evensen Ah, glad to hear that. If only all life's troubles sorted themselves out so quickly.

<Insert Name; Will Edit Once Not Busy> {Hang-out Thread}

@Ailyn Evensen XL would not fit my hands as well as the regular one.

@Shoryu Magami I have a lot of keys, but none of them will help your situation, unfortunately. Can I interest you in a sarcastic comment instead?

Seriously, though, that's really awful. Of all the things I've misplaced over the years, I've lost my keys precisely once -- and that wasn't so much lost as "realized I left them on the bench a yard away but behind the door I needed my electric fob to get through".

If all else fails, Ailyn, you could stick it in his mailbox, if that's outside his house and doesn't require a thing to get at. Or somewhere and then you...um. Oh right phone is dead. Well, instead of haring after him, it'd be better to wait at his door. Or inside, maybe. Since...y'know, the boyfriend will have a key.

Loving and Dreading the Black Shroud [shylarah & pugbutter] [Historical/Gothic]

The governor was no longer listening, so Dawn turned her attention from the future to the present. Most dark spirits hunted like wolves. You might find one alone, but you were far more likely to find several. Just as the good spirits came in all kinds, so did dark ones, and now the woman went to the dead cow, kneeling to look at the wounds more closely. One hand slipped into a small pouch at her waist, one of several, and drew out a handful of crushed, dry plants and charcoal. Under the guise of her examination, she scattered enough of it around the wretched animal to purify any lingering traces of evil. Only then did she dare to touch the remains.

It was strange. She thought she recognized the sort of spirit that would kill in such a way, torn, messy, strewing entrails about and traces around the scene confirmed that there were indeed a few of them. Yet their meal had not been finished. Something had disturbed them before they were done. The spirits of the land did not like to stay so close to the houses of the villagers, and while another group of dark spirits might have contested the kill, the victors would have eaten more than was missing.

The spirit woman moved further afield in search of answers to the puzzle. It seemed the interloper had driven the attackers off, judging by the tracks and the signs of fighting. But she did not find enough evidence to know what it was. No matter. She returned to William, and waited for him to finish speaking with the farmer. Perhaps he would tell her what he intended, when the two were done talking.

Have we been writing Character Sheets wrong?

@NuttsnBolts Oh, I'll check details if there's a sheet, a lot of the time. But I've also been known to spend a couple hours combing a log for the same details, so...<.<; Or just straight up asking. Or assuming, but when told "nope you're wrong" I'll fix it, no problem. ^.^;;

Gonna agree with the part about mental disorders. It's less the presence of the disorder and more not knowing what it's like to have it. I'm sure I've done this with things. ...I've also bent the truth for plot, but I imagine it would upset the wrong audience.

@Shoryu Magami Before I say anything else, let me say again that I do appreciate a well-considered reply. <3 Nor will you ever find me complaining about too much to read simply because of length. My issues always come in other departments. Bashing is bad in general. I try to reserve it for those who absolutely suck and the rest is just grievances with the world in general. ^.^;; I don't always convey that well, though. *sigh*

I think there's major flaws in the divisions. I've come into conflict with rpers specifically because of it, namely length and lore depth being mostly independent issues (plus anyone telling me I /can't/ think about details because it's not an advanced rp is going to frustrate me) but I'm also contentious by nature. Unfortunately. ^.^;;

I agree that even the smallest things can have a big impact -- like with your pocketwatch -- but there's also the literary idea of conservation of detail: if it's mentioned, it's important/relevant. It's hard to find a good balance, and you're right, there's no one correct answer.

@Ellri Actually, I slightly disagree. A char sheet might not be necessary for a world with dozens of characters. The multi-year lore-intensive but script-style realtime rp I'm in three nights a week has...let's see. There's something like six players, and we each have two to four focus characters minimum, and then there's a bunch of recurring ones, and...yeah. So that meets the standard. However, we started without any char sheet, or possibly with a name and a brief blurb, like a character concept. And as we go, we have a forum that has a lot of the lore and try to keep it updated. Instead of character /sheets/, each of the characters has something more like a...synopsis, or a biography. No set format, no set details. It's whatever people feel is important to be remembered. Most of mine are a quick image, often a dollmaker one, or a sketch I did, and then highlights from their past covering the important points going forward, and a quick sketch of personality. I suppose you could call it a sheet, but making them felt nothing like the hassle of writing up an official sheet. *shrug* Big issue here is that they weren't made before the rp started, and stuff about new chars isn't added until after we get to know them.

Have we been writing Character Sheets wrong?

@BrokenPromise Well it is a bit hard for the DM to encourage a direction without knowing how a character works...and that's why I always favor OOC discussion, so you can reveal or not as is needed to help things along.

@Shoryu Magami Yeah, but...I mean, rp is about story, and interaction. It's not about each individual sequin on a dress. I think some of how people describe things (at least if they're any good) has to do with what they like to read. So yes, if a character always wears a certain item, I'd describe it on a character sheet. That's solely for an explanation. However, since (as I said) I'm not a huge fan of sheets in the first place, when describing a character in a post, it's not necessary to go into the same detail. The same is true for solo writing.

A character sheet as a /player/ application I might understand. There's a lot of tests out there to separate the wheat from the chaff. However, it does sound like that forum was also elitist. I know a number of people that are absolutely amazing at creating settings and lore and characters and /using/ them, but ask for a char sheet and watch those magic words dry right up. It's the same as practical ability vs. test-taking ability. They are often equated, but they are not the same.

There's also the idea that posting pages when paragraphs -- or even /a/ paragraph -- will do is an indication of a less-skilled rper. Sure, it takes skill to churn out that much. But it takes more skill to know when to stop. There's a /lot/ of people that confuse length with skill level and that is a huge peeve of mine. Additionally, given that rp is multiple people, and thus multiple characters, the longer a post, the more likely something in it will need changing because someone will have a reaction that would then affect the initial character's interaction. The best example of this is interrupting someone talking, which is not often done in forum rp or even chat rp, because player two can't see player one's char's words until the sentence has already been completed. But irl, if I interrupt someone, chances are they're going to stop talking -- or raise their voice, or tell me to shut up. And once that happens instead of finishing the rest of the sentence, then everything else splits off as well, like the tempest caused by the flutter of an insect. I absolutely adore interpersonal interaction for rps, so the more back-and-forth, the happier I am. This means cutting down on post size.

The other issue is that in conversations, one item, one response, one connected item is a more natural formula than ten items, and ten responses, some with connected items of their own. The latter tends to create multiple parallel conversations and drives me absolutely nuts. The other thing I see happen a lot is the same part of a scene getting covered five, six times because actions taken by chars 2 and 3 then get reactions from char 1, and those are reacted to in turn. Yeah, on a forum most people don't post multiple times a day, and the more people there are in the group the longer it's going to take to cycle back to you, or else some people might get left behind (though this is a balance issue too). But once you get to about a page, unless there's something uninterrupted or a whole lot of explanation or exposition, that's enough in many cases. There is often no reason to keep going. It's time to let someone reply.

And I"m totally off-topic, rambling -- and covering things I've said to you before. Man, I get worked up over this stuff way to easily. -.- Being half-awake doesn't help either. *flops off to bed*

Have we been writing Character Sheets wrong?

@BrokenPromise Yeah, I'll use variations on things instead of the name or the pronoun overandoverandover. Though I tend to reuse the same ones a lot for any given character. And for sandboxing/no sheets, there's always OOC discussion to figure out what will work well. If you/the GM want X to happen, one of you approaches the other and says "Yo, so I want X, why would so-and-so end up in situation X?" In the end, it's not up to the GM to decide on the actual motivation. ...I'm phrasing this poorly. Also having trouble thinking of an example. But yeah, absolutely discuss what would kick characters in the rear and get them heading towards a useful goal. And as a player, there's often a need to have at least a little flexibility to either have bad things happen so that a character is pushed out of their comfort zone, or even take an option that's...not against the character, but maybe it's their second choice instead of their first, and in the instant of decision, for whatever reason, they went with that.

@The Elvenqueen Since I look at rp from a standpoint near storytelling, there's something to be said for allowing plot twists to be a surprise, and leaving things out for later discovery. It also helps things stay fresh and exciting. It's the same reason a DM doesn't tell you the endgame of a plot at the beginning in many cases. I rather feel char sheets are a place where less is definitely more. ...I also may have had a problem early on with players that didn't know or didn't bother to separate IC and OOC knowledge of things, which has has given me a real bias against revealing super secret stuff about my chars. That's my own problem, though.

Have we been writing Character Sheets wrong?

@The Elvenqueen I agree with you on development. Likewise, I tend to describe general style and favored colors, but not specific clothing unless it's relevant, or a person wears it 90% of the time. Nikki's bracelets that are actually spelled to let her summon her clawed gauntlets, the locket Rhia wears with the picture of her dead wife, the knife adult!Amune is never without. ...Though these tend to be sentimental or functional more often than just articles of clothing. *considers* However, such things, if mentioned, will also be noted in the rare instance they are /not/ present -- this will be a significant detail, and there will be a reason for it that may very well be relevant to current moods or goings-on. For example, Rhia stopped wearing her locket when she was finally ready to try entering a new relationship (differences in lifespan can be /painful/, man!)

@NuttsnBolts I have seen running in heels being a problem come up in some show or other. <3

@BrokenPromise I agree; char sheets are mostly references and applications, and in fact I didn't use them at all for the majority of my rp career, outside of D&D-type games where your sheet was quite literally a bunch of necessary numbers and formulae. I've told Shoryu this before, but I actually create as I go, a lot of the time, and once I have the basics I need to see a character in action to get a better feel for them, an idea you touched upon at least concept-wise. I just found out one of my characters had a time when she flirted with being suicidal, but in fact is frightened of the idea now, and worried she might be sliding in that direction. Then again, she was mostly insane at the time, so that played into it. But I didn't know that specific detail until this week or the last. Plus any char sheet will always be an initial version of the char for that specific rp, unless you keep it updated as you go. This makes it fun when age is listed but the rp started like ten years ago IC and now the eight-year-old is a teenager. <3

I know that, as a writer, I have started to notice (and find it frustrating to have) a description infodump. I don't need to know every minute detail about the character's appearance the moment they step onto the scene. Give me a quick sketch, and keep the story going. Say she is "tattooed" but maybe consider leaving out the paragraph description of her various designs; say he has "various piercings" but don't count them all. Don't tell me about her ring until she fidgets with it nervously. I don't necessarily need to know that he's wearing a hat until the wind blows it off. The messenger bag she carries, it's not an issue until it's left behind.

It's a very delicate balance and in the end all I can advise in general is to be aware of how long you spend on appearance details without anything else, and to go with what feels right. One thing I like to do kinda shows above -- I'll add to the story as well as the image by having a description piece accompany an action. Max will run his hand through his short, swept-up hair, which is why it always looks a bit disheveled. That way you can convey emotion and action as well as description.

In terms of weaponry, I never assume the ones carried are the only ones able to be used. However, it is /usually/ true that a listed weapon is one the character has used, and is likely to have some skill with, the extreme exceptions aside. If a particular skill or talent is listed, it is probably a notable one, and may play a significant role in that person's life. It is reasonable to expect that similar abilities can be used or at least fudged when necessary, and if not that will be apparent when the issue arises.

The shiny chrome casing on the grenade is only a relevant detail if someone happens to notice it as time stretches out when it's thrown at them, or if you want to draw attention to the grenade for some reason. Details request the reader's attention, and so indicate significance; use them accordingly. @Shoryu Magami (oh look who I found! =P), I agree with foreshadowing, though I hope the pocketwatch is significant, otherwise why foreshadow? Although I should note that misdirection is fair play. There might be a good reason the attacker left that beggar a bloody mess, but you won't find out it was a demon in disguise until /much/ later on, and for now the culprit is portrayed as a bad person.

For personality, yes, there are always exceptions and specifics, but a person will tend to have general mannerisms and characteristics. Someone who is utterly miserable a certain day of the year that marks the anniversary of some significant event can still be listed as bubbly if that's their general mood the majority of the time. Even the gloomiest of characters might have a person or two that knows how to make them smile. Sheets are guides, not absolutes. Restricting a character's ability to grow, develop, and change because of the submitted sheet is...I'm cringing. >.< Please no.

Adelon: Steeling the Faith [Open!]

@Mogtaki So now it's my turn to wonder if I should wait for @Scout... *amused*

<Insert Name; Will Edit Once Not Busy> {Hang-out Thread}

@Shoryu Magami use your keyboard. =P