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For nukes, I'd still go with MAD and them being the last resort button for deterrence.

If you push it, you lose everything automatically. But so does everybody else! So that means you shouldn't use it for random reasons because hey, even if the enemy is dead so are you. But that also means people can't bully you in the corner since the menace is mutual. You nuke me? I'll nuke you!

I think this could and should be used as a deterrent but the option should still be there.

Likewise if you nuke a magical nation which can't (I hope) nuke you back, there would be the fact that for everyone everywhere you will be the big bad guy for ever and ever, expect to be treated like north korea is today, etc. I think its reasonable and that we don't need fancy reasons to make the use of nukes worst, its already the worst case scenario to start with.
@Dinh AaronMk

Quebecois is the french name, we present ourselves to the anglo as quebecers, which is what they call us. I should know, I'm from quebec.

As for the dams, I wouldn't expect to run the mega ones in the north, at least not for now, but there are plenty of them in the lower regions near the St-Lawrence and I happen to know (After 10 years of mandatory history of quebec in class) that to our pride, quebec has since the 70s an expertise in hydro power and all the components for the maintenance and indeed construction of these incredible pieces of infrastructures have been built entirely and solely in the province.

Still however, I have to say regarding the ash that I used this:



So I assumed the ash in such a far away region would be minor and as well, its been quite a few generations since this happened.

As for oil, I didn't know that and I assumed the tech levels would be more close to early 20th century.

Does this tech level apply to everything? Radio, automatic weapons, artillery, cars, tanks, etc...

As a compromise I'd suggest maybe only use a few small dams in Mauricie (Between Quebec and Montreal, north coast) that don't nearly have the production volume as the big ones in the north and have that energy monopolised by the metropolitan areas, so no general electrification.

But if you say no, I'll gracefully accept your judgement.
Name: État Libre de Québec / Free State of Quebec

Location:


History:

The Foundation:


The Anglo-French relationship was never 'good', but adversity only made them worst as Canada, rather than join together in solidarity seemed to slowly disjoint itself, the population center of the Capital in Ontario bickering with east and west as the Great Plains once again were forced to provide oil and food to both the Vancouver Region and the East for what it saw was no valid reasons. After all, Quebec had plenty of untapped reserves of oil and minerals it didn't want to exploit because of 'Environmental' concerns or not to frustrate the natives. So, with all this potential, it had the guts to come to parliament and expect the hard earned wealth of the west to be handed to them freely?

The federal power was unfortunately stretched thin and it was getting obvious that someone would be left unhappy no matter what so the Prime Minister, an english speaking Ontarian already unpopular in Quebec, decided to force the province to exploit the resources it had to support the rest of Canada. The Quebecers of course saw this as not only a violation of their rights but as pure theft as it was perceived that the resources exploited would go to the rest of Canada! (Rather than the reality, which was stay locally but as such allow the west to concentrate on its own problems.) The Separatists of course saw this as water to their mill and gained popularity significantly, so much it looked like a landslide victory for the next elections.

Before that could happen however, Yellowstone happened.

Though some in Quebec said 'Good riddance' to those they saw as their enemies, most saw this as atrocious and fearing the sympathy vote could cost them the election, the leader of the Partie Quebecois decided at the last minute to moderate his position and show sympathy toward the rest of Canada, postponing any referendum on separation until 'the crisis had passed'. He was elected with a majority, but not nearly as much as he had wanted and with severe strain in his government as hardliners screamed traitor in his ear.

The story however now moves to a Lieutenant at the Valcartier military base in Quebec, LT Etienne Boulanger, who saw his unit, and indeed pretty much all the military forces in Quebec shifted west to help manage the crisis. It was understandable of course as it was the most affected area but the Quebecers, who didn't want to be so far from their home and spoke broken english found themselves disliked by both the Albertan civilians and the other military units, which was fine with them because they began to hate their guts as well and earned a reputation for quickly turning to violence to solve the problems and alienated the natives.

The main problem arose however when rumors reached the French soldiers about what was going on back East about how the Provincial Government had given complete collaboration to federal forces and had outlawed strikes, even forcing people to work in the mines and new oil fields to provide for the Anglo scum while their own people were forced to freeze during electricity shortages because their abundant hydroelectric resources were sent west. This combined with the departure East of Ontarian forces made Lieutenant Boulanger and many others convinced that they had been deployed so far East because the Federal forces knew they would rather be loyal to their French Brothers than them and would have fought back.

It was the Lieutenant that spearheaded the mutiny of the Quebecers and led them back to the province, leaving their post undefended against looters and taking the resources they were supposed to distribute to the civilians with them. It wouldn't be enough however and they had to pillage their way to Quebec, something the Ontarians are to this day extremely resentful of. When they arrived, they found that indeed the Provincial Government had gotten cold feet and was now subordinate to the Federalists completely. The troops deployed East had originally been sent to the maritime provinces but had stopped when the locals, having heard their troops were coming back to liberate them, had taken to the streets in a General Strike paralyzing the entire province.

Isolated, this garrison was quickly forced into surrender when the Lieutenant, now self declared General Boulanger, arrived and promised to send them back to Ontario in exchange for their surrender. He would however do nothing but watch as the forces leaving were lynched by the mob that saw them come out. The provincial government tried to change its tune quickly and thank the 'General' for liberating them and proclaim an independent state of Quebec, but he was shouted down by the crowd who saw him as a filthy collaborator only trying to save his skin. A Kangaroo court was held on the spot, he and his most unpopular subordinates hung for high treason against the people of the province while the hardliners formed a provisional government investing General Boulanger with extraordinary powers to bring back order. The state of emergency would never be ended and the 'Généralissime' would, to this day, be the highest office in what is essentially a populist military dictatorship.

L'État Libre


Although the reason Quebec didn't get its electricity from its dams was that the power lines had been destroyed by the ashes of Yellowstone, the Generalissime was quick to blame that on both the English speakers and the natives. The natives had gotten restless for obvious reasons and were now either living in isolation or outright raiding the French speaking towns and villages next to them. Boulanger at first ordered them to stand down but this was just to boilster his popularity and forge an image of himself being 'reasonable'. He then had the luck to see a Mohawk tribe burn an entire village to the ground, making any opponent of a violent solution shut up. He sent one of his most brutal subordinates to do the job and although he ordered 'moderation', it came to no surprise when the situation had devolved to ethnic cleansing. The commanding officer had been left with the impression that this was what Boulanger wanted and indeed it was, but what he didn't know was that Boulanger felt that he was popular enough and violent enough that he was a disaster waiting to happen and so used the opportunity to trial him and execute him as well. This didn't stop the war with the Natives who tried to wage guerilla warfare but this only prompted the Quebecer forces to use discrimination and force the natives in internment camps based on their skin color. The tactic was effective but since there was some food shortages, the soldiers were ordered to take care of their own first which resulted in malnutrition killing off most of the Natives, the rest being forced to flee persecution.

Ethnic warfare would prove to be the Generalissime's favorite tool of control as he subverted the Quebecer's spirit of independence into hate of the outsiders, which made for a united ethno-state in north America. With the constant influence of the military on all affairs however, it made the soldiery become the elite class of people in the new State since while others warned of excessive influence of the military on the state, Quebecers were wary of bureaucrats and pencil pushers taking control of it, feeling a man, a single man, with experience and who understood the plight of the people, was the ideal man to have a vision the people should strive for.

To this end, the Generalissime, always chosen from a small clique of high ranking officers that were personal friends and trusted by the previous Generalissime, generally points the determination of the Quebecers toward the Outsiders just like how it all started and pushes north to exterminate the inuit population that constantly sabotages the power lines from the hydroelectric damns and south west in Ontario to recapture farmland that 'Historically belong to Quebec'. Surprisingly however, the Generalissimes always do their utmost to enjoy a good relationship with the US remnants down the south since the first Generalissime warned that an ethno-state was easy to paint as an unambiguous enemy of all you were and that Quebec shouldn't become the enemy that unites the Americans.
<Snipped quote by Wernher>

I have to disagree here-not with your specific examples per say(full auto wands and armors of negating kinetics and whatnot sound dumb, at least until a cultural exchange occurs and people start experimenting with our our science interacts with their magic), but at the core all that quote-unquote "magitech" would really be is applying the scientific method to magic. Learning to harness it and utilize it in ways to the benefit of their society as a whole, although with magic as a force the need to technologically advance in a more traditional sense would be much lower(hence their status as medeival technologically, since they wouldn't need to scientifically advance nearly so much in order to improve their standard of life; they don't have microbial theory, but they don't need to in order to know 'Cure Disease' spells make sick people better, ect). I also disagree with the notion that a Magical nation couldn't compete realistically with a technological one. They might not have anywhere nearly so sophisticated mundane weapons, but in our terms any individual mage would have the potential to be equivalent to if not greater than our own primary weapons of war(tanks, artillery, ect) and weapons of mass destruction in and of themselves at the absolute most powerful. Not even mentioning the fact that with magic you could pump out armies on a industrial scale as well(golems, undead, ect), as well as (again, all things being potentially and dependent on how powerful magic is considered) ludicrously easy logistics if Mages can either teleport or just conjure food and resources. We know that instantaneous or at least near instantaneous travel is possible because Portals, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Magi know how to use magic to transport supplies or armies quickly-an advantage we wouldn't have almost at all.


Well, that's one way to do things, but if magical nations are functionally the same as moderns or even better (Teleport in, cast spell of mass destruction for an even better thing than a nuclear missile) I'm just not interested then as since if an opponent is too strong there is no will or reason to try and conquer it. The moment the mages show they also have the ability to obliterate cities at will is the moment everyone sits down on a table and make friends with each other since even if one side could win, the damages done would be so astronomical it would defeat the purpose. I'm just not interested in RPing a cultural exchange program.

I don't mean to say anyone playing a fantasy realm should be automatically weak, just because, but I suggested a power dynamic that forces cooperation and betrayal while making the use of force a real and even good choice rather than something stupid and suicidal. It would still leave many ways for the fantasy world to fight back and win, but I just don't think it would be entertaining if this meeting of worlds, rather than being an exceptional event that would forever change both worlds, politically and socially, was still just some guys, sitting on their asses but now on a table that's two times bigger with their finger on the red button that either launches the nukes or sends a telepathic message to the mages to teleport and obliterate everything.
Alright, on this I'll say officially that I am out as I fear the cast as changed too drastically since the start for me to say this is going to be what I originally envisioned.
Nipton

The Legion was caught off-guard by this sudden attack by...the Brotherhood? Thier 'Father Elijah' must be more insnae than thought! But whoever it was, they were doing to Nipton what Vulpes had wanted, wreaking untold havoc on the town, the fortifications, and the human shields. But Artificer King Actus, now the acting leader of the defense, sent the signal for the counterattack anyway - the light troops were withdrawn, and from the alleys and burning buldings stormed the medium troops held in reserve, attacking in wedge formations with the front of each wedge being led by an armored man with a super sledge that can crush even Power Armor, flanked by two soldiers wielding thermic lances, and the far corners held by people shooting brush guns.

At the same time, two bands of frumentarii were sent to clear the way to retreat, and sneak their way to where the nuke guns were, respectively...

"The enemy is reacting faster than anticipated, so much for an easy victory." That was Brams, doing away with coms ethiquette. Normally Carmen would have said something about it but considering there was 12 of them and they all knew each other's voice by heart it was a little bit redundent at the moment. That and Carmen had other things to focus on as the 'medium' soldiers were leading a counter attack. The use of quotes seemed important here since after all they had attacked in the dept of night and such a quick counter attack came at a price, some Legion soldiers hadn't had the time to done their armor! Not that it made much difference in front of Carmen's plasma caster. Ultimately this resistence was futile: The melee soldiers didn't step a feet outside that they were mowed down by laser, plasma and 5mm bullets. Even the oh so dastardly brush guns were silenced by the sheer volume of firepower sent their way and the moment one raised his head he was sure to catch a projectile in his skull. They simply didn't have the firing speed needed to counter the supressive fire sent their way and so, they were just meat waiting to be diced by frag grenades.

On the outside of the town, Iota team had fired its last nukes and Xavier sat on the ground with his grenade machinegun between his legs, bracing it to fire like a mortar at the town. He and his men weilding missile launchers and plasma rifles on their backs for close quarter defense hadn't seen the infiltrators... yet. But each step they took brought them closer to detection for darkness didn't hide them from the Enclave's night vision gear.

As the Epsilon Cell got closer and closer to the town hall, the Artificer King would try another tack; at his signal, barrels filled with turpentine oil will be flipped over by a crude mechanism using levers and strings, launching a flood of flammable fluid that would reach the Epsilon cell's feet. This was originally intended as a trap for NCR Infantry, and would have doubtless killed a few dozen of them once they had been lit by snipers using incendary ammunition. With the Epsilon cell, however, the snipers weren't needed, as they were lighting up the city in fire themselves.

So, they would be confronted with a wall of fire, a wall of fire that might - might - discomfit even them enough for the remaining troops to regroup; the medium troops would begin laying down proper fire from their own guns and ballistic fists, while brave light troops/hastati would throw petrol bombs at the enemy.

Nevertheless, this was only to buy time for the cache of flammable materials (dynamite, fertilizer, oil, and even human dung) that had been contained in the town hall to be set to blow up in five minutes (so that the Artificer King can evacuate in time); not even power armor can survive such an explosion intact.

And finally, the infiltrators trying to take on the artillery, once they realized they were dealing with what they thought were Father Elijah's Brotherhood, began to use rocks, trees, and depressions in the ground as cover, while at the same time trying to present a low profile...

Carmen's initial surprise at the flames that lit up at her feet was quickly changed to mild irritation. It was in no way a trouble for them, the armors were flame-proof after all, but the thick smoke and heat blocked their vision and their sensors. No matter, the enemy was affected as well and so Carmen kept moving forward, confident she wouldn't end up face to face with an enemy as after all, they didn't have flame proof armors. "Everything's on schedule still, keep pushing them out!"

Time was too expensive to be bought by the Legion.

Epsilon didn't stop for a second to clear a building, instead allowing the troops with their flame throwers to light it up and leave everyone inside to die a horrible death. The NCR would have bought the bait and entered since they wanted to recapture the town, but Carmen's only mission was to push the legion out, even if that meant leaving no town behind. And so, from the flames walked out a demon as William Nash lifted his flamer and doused the town hall in napalm, the thick gell like substance clinging to people and all surfaces.

"Out of missiles!"

Iota team had expended the arsenal they had brought with them almost entirely now, only the grenades kept raining on the disorganized light troops to further put the pressure on them. Loweing their missile launchers the soldiers looked at the town, lit aflame, with jeering cheers. It would all be over soon. One soldier believed he caught something with his eyes though and turned to face the darkness, his yellow eyes menacingly scanning the darkness. Stakes were high, that grenade machinegun could end all the infiltrators in a single burst but still they remained undetected.

Artificer King Actus had almost managed to get out of the town, his remaining usable assets in tow, when William Nash set fire to the town hall and pre-emptively lit the 'bonfire' he had been preparing for the NCR but were now taken by Epsilon Cell. It was too late for him as he was engulfed by the explosion, an explosion that would at least blast William Nash in explosive force, heat, and flame, which might probably end his life thanks to power that not even his armor can withstand. Depending on how close the rest of his team was, a few others would die in the explosion that would engulf most of Nipton, whose deafening sound would at least crack Carmen's visor.

Not merely that, but unless Iota team were inhuman in their ability to not get distracted, the explosion would draw their attention...for enough time for the infiltrators to reach them and attack with thermic lances and cowboy repeaters at a range close enough to be dangerous.

The explosion certainly did take everyone by surprise, many being forced to kneel from its force, but not Carmen. No, what forced Carmen on the ground was the small house being blown off, that explosion after hundreds of years of decrepitude being the final blow its structure could handle. There was no pain, as Carmen was on an adrenaline and psycho fueled rampage but as she was picking herself up, a hand came to grab the neck plate of her armor. She assumed it was a companion here to help her up but as she looked up, she saw a man. Tall, extremely muscular with a power fist going straight into her stomach. The sound of metal against metal and what she assumed was a rib cracking filled her ears. "You guys just don't know when to quit..." The man readied for a second punch with a smile of confidence in his face but as the fist flew, Carmen showed how these armors could be surprisingly nimble and grope his wrist, using her strength her armor and his own momentum to make him fly above her.

She picked herself up as did the man who came back running at her. She was good enough at boxing that she did manage to dodge the first blow and counter with a quick jab on his face. To keep it from exploding, he dodged and countered. But Carmen saw an opening: He had one power fist. But like any fighter, fought with two hands. She grope the fist and looked at the man in the eyes. She now stood a head taller than him thanks to her power armor. Now starting to see his own death, the man prepared for a power fist swing, but was stopped by Carmen head butting him, breaking his nose. The punch, even with the fist, didn't have enough energy to damage Carmen who promptly broke his arm. Pitifully he turned to make a hasty retreat but only saw other power armored figures. Some finishing the wounded and others looking at him with amusement. Powerful hands grope his neck and his own life was ended as Carmen broke his neck.

"I think that means we won." Said one of the soldiers from Iota team. They laughed, except for Himmelman however, who merely stopped firing. "All assault teams, status report please." Suddenly there was a detonation, a close one. The soldier hit turned to face the danger, confused that his helmet had suddenly dinged against his skull but was met by a guy with a thermal lance. He tried to pull back, place distance but tripped in doing so. Probably what saved his life though as the lance missed him and the lancer was felled by a plasma bolt. His dead body hid but also hindered his ally who charged the turtle on his back but managed only to stab him in the leg, causing intense pain in the Enclave soldier. The troopers jumped in cover as much as they could, taken by surprise. All except Himmelman who merely rose up and lifted his machinegun toward the enemy. All it took was indeed a burst to vaporize the enemy. Still, it was annoying they had been taken by surprise like this, the heat and light of the lances should have given them away.

"Carmen here, we pushed them out, its done."

"John here, my fucking chainsaw jammed in the middle of the fight!"

"What a terrible casualty... Anyways. William. William, report in!"

"This is Charles... He was blown away by the explosion and ended in a brick wall. The armor is still intact but I think he got internal injury and his organs were crushed by the force."

In the town, Carmen looked at the smoking crater that was in the middle of the city. There had been 23 of them when they left to go west. Now it was 11.

"...Scuttle his armor and weapons. If the body is... still in a single piece we'll evacuate it, else we'll burry it here. Unmarked grave so the next to come won't desecrate him."
@Letter BeeEh, why not. Want to do this by PM?
@SpookySquid

Well, I see it has an important option to fight back against the powers that be. Without nukes, the moment the enemy makes an alliance against you, providing were more or less evenly matched, you're screwed. With nukes the entire world can be against you and you'll still have the argument 'If you take me out, I'm taking you all with me'.

I think it would be interesting for the fantasy world to slowly become aware of the scenario of Mutually Assured Destruction that plays out in the tech world and realize that the key to success is to antagonize them against one another, form alliances and get in on the high stakes game of mass destruction. Create incidents between the newly coming nations to pit them one after the other.

Now that I think of it this could make for an interesting start!

The tech nations initially agree that, for the sake of preventing a war they should cooperate, UN troops and all that, but its still obvious there are tensions and that the tech world is here to stay and exploit resources.

How?

By allowing only 'Neutral' corporations without military power (Or at least less than a nation) to do business at first. So we start with this being a fertile ground for the non nation players.

Slowly however everyone gets more involved as things don't go the way they want and the natives use something that technology doesn't improve to fight back: Scheming and psychology.

What do you guys think?
@catchamber

Not necessarily the case if the fantasy world has had centuries of experience with magical warfare and magitech. Jets might have a hard time taking down a fortified magocratic city-state that's armed to the teeth. Would definitely apply to most of the world, if the average polity is a bunch of pseudo-fuedal village-dwelling mud-rakers.


I hate magitech so damn much. I say sure to the odd heroes with vorpal swords and +5 armor, but I swear to god if I see an army of dudes with full-auto wands of destruction and armors of negate kinetic damage I will kill myself. I don't mean to say resisting would be impossible, but rather difficult and laughable if a nation decided to really flex its muscles and consider this a real, industrial scale, war.

In the original interest check, I mentioned the possibility of zones where the two worlds are physically merged. Also, I think there was some support for there being more than one contact point.


Well, it just goes with the question of who would host if its a single point. Again, unless we go with the multiple point of entry idea, I'd suggest the host to be a weaker nation that can be bullied by others so that it can't just turtle up and say 'Fuck off, we're full' to anyone who wants to go on the other side.

I'm for this too. This would be a little less political, and more unified in terms of sending some sort of international force (like a UN coalition of sorts). My reasoning being that regardless where that portal appears, everyone would more realistically react like "Holy shit guys! The hell is this?" Maybe later down the line when things settling, bases are established, ect, do we see countries trying to pull shit like Japan did in GATE.

I'm also for having an alternate world for the Modern nations. I'm thinking along the lines of Ace Combat or something, just so we can have a bit more creativity.


I think its just important to make reasons to go there and shed blood: crippling lack of resources, overpopulation, all the scenarios that usually breed war, so this isn't just a meet and greet and everyone agreeing together that they should do the good thing and leave the people on the other side alone.

As for setting, I still vote for 'In the near future' with outlandish events that reshaped the world. That way we have a frame of reference for history and relations.

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