Rant about 'teaching men not to rape'.

[Dion]

<Snipped quote by Buddha>

Counting high-population centers and listing them as just simply how much rapes happen there will be a given since there's so many more people compared to the rural south. You would really need to do this by per-capita but even then it may be hard to discern if education or the lack there-of is really the problem since cities will naturally have higher per-capita for everything due to the richness of targets in high-population environments.

But, whatever.

In semi-related open thinking, I'm going to point out that the legal existence of rape in Japan is relatively new compared to the rest of the world. But in the rape stats page I was using on Wikipedia Japan is omitted and is only evoked twice as a comparison to Australia (1.2 per 100,000 reported cases in Japan versus Australia's 28.6 per 100,000) and in a large table of general rape stats. My only source on the "recent" introduction of rape law in Japan and the concept of its "culture" comes from all places a novel: Death by Water by Kenziboru Oe.

As a general over-view one of the major plots after the advertised plot basically takes a shit and dies some five chapters in is one of the character's experiences with having been raped when she was seventeen and being forced to get an abortion because of it.

That in hand in mind I can be very, very cheeky and suggest the anime-watching, manga-reading alt-right MRA crowd adopts their attitudes of rape ("Rapu", as it's creatively called in Japan) directly from a culture that has a bit of catching up to come to grips with what the fuck a modern western rape is. But that's something I should keep on hand if I feel like shitposting on /pol/ or something.

@Dinh AaronMk

Hm, well, yes. Naturally it's gonna happen more in more densely populated areas. I don't really have stats to back anything up in that department, so like I said, I was gonna go on a limb.

Even per capita it'd be widely inaccurate because rape is context based and needs nuance, it needs facts on what happened and it's up to the beholder to decide whether they think it's rape.

If two adults get drunk together and have (at that time, consensual but drunk) sex and the woman then claims it was rape that's not rape in my eyes if the man wasn't feeding her drinks to get her drunk for the sole purpose of having sex with her. That's just two people getting drunk and an accident happening.

I'm glad I don't read manga though, and that I'm not alt-right. I don't think we even have an alt-right here...

[Dion]

@Dinh AaronMk Also, while I feel you're onto something with the manga reading stuff (god I fucking hate weebs) I feel like you'll have a hard time coming up with any concrete evidence.

I believe there's a small link, but I don't think you can prove anything more than 'look it's possible'

[Vilageidiotx]

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

Texas is pretty normal compared to its northern neighbors as well. But if this is for reported rape could there be a difference in terms of how rape is thought of between these states?

Alaska - being the northern Florida - is probably about on par with cold-weather expectations. I bet its the Anchorage area that's carrying that state.

@Dinh AaronMk

I think Alaska is explained by this...



It's a state who's primary attraction for immigrants is in the availability of jobs that also happen to be traditionally masculine. There are a lot of oil rig guys, fishermen, truckers, etc, stuck up there with too few women. You can contrast that to the Rocky Mountain states and their blueness because, as someone who used to live in those rocky mountain states i can say, the dark blue there connotes places with very low populations (seeing as they line up exactly with either deserts or mountains), the population centers all being in light blue or light red sections.

I'd guess Michigan is probably explained by the poverty up there, but that doesn't explain the others. The only unifying aspect that I can even think to attach to those is the higher Native American populations. Some sense could be made of that since there we'd be talking about populations that are very poor, rural, and isolated, which seems like a good recipe for high rape rates per population...



...but that would leave out Arizona, which would be bizarre, because that includes some of the poorest and most isolated populations of them all. That's not to mention it is a hell of an assumption to make based on basically just guesswork and a loose correlation.

So who knows.

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Vilageidiotx

If we're going to assume poverty as being the issue in Michigan then there's only really a few places that'd qualify: Detroit and more-or-less the bulk of the Upper Peninsula. The UP - for the most part in the east - seems to match Alaska, which if we assume these conditions are true would explain it; but that last map looks like it only does Ameriindians and not wealth or anything (it's really fucking hard to read without a white background).

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Dinh AaronMk Also, while I feel you're onto something with the manga reading stuff (god I fucking hate weebs) I feel like you'll have a hard time coming up with any concrete evidence.

I believe there's a small link, but I don't think you can prove anything more than 'look it's possible'

@Buddha

If I'm going to shitpost it I don't need evidence. I just need to lay it out blunt, make the correlation, and call everyone whose into Japanese Chinese cartoons and comics a degenerate.

Then get called a cuck because #AltRight.

[Dion]

@Dinh AaronMk You would get away with here too if your avatar wasn't a damn pony, man.

[Vilageidiotx]

@Dinh AaronMk You would get away with here too if your avatar wasn't a damn pony, man.

@Buddha

Preach!

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Dinh AaronMk You would get away with here too if your avatar wasn't a damn pony, man.

@Buddha

/pol/ wooden spoon. We second star. #EatShit 4ccg. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Weird Tales]

Yeah...... facebook I find is a better place for this stuff. Sorry, but I keep my political discussion to other sites

[Chrononaut]

So, wait, are you telling me that knocking a woman out, dragging her by the hair to my cabin, and then having intercourse with her isn't consent?

[SilentWriter83]

There's so much wrong with the US it's painful. Idk about now, but when I was in middle school and they started sex ed you can opt out of it. Personally, I think every body should take sex ed no matter what so misunderstandings don't arise. Most men don't realize that, yes, it is rape if you're drunk and you have sex. Although I have to admit the lines get blurry if both parties are drunk. I don't believe that it's the mans responsibility to determine if he or his partner are 'too drunk' to engage in sex. I've certainly had drunk sex with my bf and *technically that's considered rape cus I didn't say 'yes' verbally. This is a very fine line.

But there are times its crossed. If the other person is passed out. Don't do it. If they can't walk or talk. Don't do it. If they are asleep. Don't do it. If they say no. Don't keep asking until they get annoyed and say yes. These all seem like common sense things but they're NOT.

I've been drunk and taken to a room where a guy tried to have sex with me and I had no idea what was going on. Two girls found me and dragged me out and a friend took me home. Like, it's not easy for some guys to draw the line even though I was visibly intoxicated and not capable of making rational decisions.

These things shouldn't happen. They should be common sense. But the fact is they're not. Plain and simple.

"Teaching men not to rape."

^ probably not the best way to phrase it, but the fact is, from a young age women are taught that its somehow innately their fault. Don't dress a certain way. Well if you weren't drunk. Did you flirt? None of that matters, but at the end of the day, the majority of rapes go unreported because it's damn near impossible to convict a rapist because we still live in a country where a woman is somehow innately responsible for how a man reacts to her body. It's in our dress codes in high school, society, television. Woman are objects. Look at American advertisements. It's okay to use our bodies to sell food but DEAR MOTHER OF GOD if a woman breastfeeds her child on the street people have a heart attack.

it's a social issue that needs to be addressed through law. Being harsher on rapes. Actually processing rape kits (most of which are not processed at all). Taking rape more seriously, and also changing the rape law to include non penetrative sex so men can convict their rapists.

also message to 'feminists' WOMEN CAN AND HAVE RAPED TO. YOU DO NOT NEED TO PENETRATE A MAN OR WOMAN TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT THEM.

^that needed to be said. There needs to be a social movement that allows male victims of rape to speak out and get justice as well. You don't have to be molested by a male to be raped. Women can do it too.

We don't need to 'teach men not to rape' we need to teach society not to accept rape. If it's children people go bananas. When female teachers molest their students, those boys are praised or told they should be proud of an 'accomplishment' but when it's women it's their fault. There are so many fucked up notions when it comes to rape thanks to heteronormativity and male gaze and all that shit I don't wanna get into.

Fact of the matter is its not about teaching who not to rape who. it's about creating new laws and legislation so that rape isn't accepted as the victims fault (regardless of who the victim is). *looking at you Brock Turner you piece of filth with your shitty at 3 months for bs good behaviour. I wanna punch him in the fucking jugular. I don't give a damn if you don't eat steak cus you're sad and your life is ruined. Good. I hope it goes to shit you vile piece of filth*

[Dolerman]

@Weird Tales

yeah its not like youve EVER bashed feminists or promoted rebel media on this site....

[Cyndyr]

Telling people not to rape is like telling a murderer to stop killing. These people are twisted in the head and there is no changing that. I do agree that the US is completely and utterly fucked up with its court systems especially as of late. Exhibit A would be Brock Turner (is this his name? I don't care. That subhuman piece of shit should only be referred to as "rapist". Nonetheless, I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about) case. Because of this case, I was actually almost swayed to believe that "rape culture" existed, but I think the outcries of the sane speak against that. America isn't a rape culture, it's a rich culture. Previously named rapist got away with his crimes because his family is wealthy. In my opinion, it doesn't matter what you do: thievery (I mean, why, if you're rich?), murder, rape or anything else, if you have the money to pay for it, you'll probably get away with it, it's disgusting.

Anyway, back to the top on hand, sorry, strayed off a bit. . .

Men who are convicted of rape should be punished. Women who are convinced of rape should be punished. Men and women who lie about rape should be punished. Simple as that. Men should not be punished for rape alone. Women should not be punished for rape alone. Unfortunately, it is a problem with people as a whole and it isn't gender exclusive. Rapes penetrated by men may seem higher, but may be because rape done by women isn't typically taken seriously. We don't know that though. There may be a correlation, but no causation.

Do not blame men for rape. Do not blame women for rape.

And most importantly: take a self-defense class. Seriously, it helps against this stuff, makes you feel healthier and more like a badass. I do MMA and I started because it because of past trauma (for any skeptics, yes, I sat down in a fucking neuropsychologist's office for six and a half hours to see what was wrong with me and I was diagnosed with PTSD due to having shitty parents for the first sixteen years of my life. If one more person says Twitter gave them PTSD outside of a joking context, I will lose my shit, literally) and all it has done is good for me. It raised my confidence, self-esteem and so on. If you're worried about ever facing rape, be you a man or a woman, I can't stress the recommendation of taking a self-defense course or something related.

[Dion]

@Cynder I have two addendums. First of all I want to address that a large amount of the rape claims that are filed at the police are actually not true. Before you go batshit crazy (not you specifically but anyone reading this) about how that is sexist and victim blaming (lol victim blaming plz..) let me explain why this is bad for rape victims and men.

First of all if false rape claims are filed a lot more often than real rape claims, it becomes prerogative to assume a new rape claim is fake. 'Oh, most of them are fake.. this one probably is too.' Sounds mean, is reality. Police people do not see people in front of them, they see statistics and numbers. It's important to remember that.

So the more false rape claims, the more skeptical people become of rape claims in general. I can attest, I am very skeptical of rape claims especially when high profile people are involved. The reason is I am a man and I imagine it's hard for women to imagine, but even a false rape claim can permanently ruin a mans life to the point of not ever getting a job ever again.

If a false rape claim was ever filed against me, I'd probably never be capable of living my life out.

So, I am skeptical. Guilty until proven innocent is often how it goes with rape, because the media picks up quick and they have no issue filing your full name, picture and calling you a rapist before a conviction already.

So false rape claims are bad for both sides. Tumblr likes to advocate that there's no such thing as a false rape claim however so apparently I am wrong.

---

Second, as a martial artist, I'd have to say...

MMA is brutally effective. It's not a martial art, it doesn't teach you anything beyond fighting. It's good if you want to defend yourself and only that, and have no interest about other stuff.

I'd never recommend it to someone who isn't looking to become a fighting machine but just wants some experience in defending themselves. Same for Systema or Krav Maga. Both are respectable fighting disciplines, and I really want to learn one of the three (Krav Maga, Systema, MMA) but fact of the matter is they are not martial arts, they don't teach self defence, they teach you how to knock a mothafucka out.

If I had to say what a good self defence course would be, it'd be something like MMA style punching, some judo, some karate for stances and kicks, and then to teach the golden rule:

There is no one self defence style that is perfect. It's rock paper scissors. If you want to prevent rape, do not apply these techniques like they are performed in the book. Adaptability is the only thing that can help you, so apply the techniques in a realistic way that is useful.

[SilentWriter83]

I forget who teaches it but a rape victim (woman) took a self defense class and adapted it for women in heels (cus if you out at the club most women or some) wear heels and it's badass af.

[Cyndyr]

@Buddha
I'm going to try to respond to this the best that I absolutely can, but I have been sick for about two days now (including a rather nasty fever yesterday), so I apologize if there are some discrepancies or notable spelling errors.

In response to your first comment: I without a doubt agree with everything you have said and there is nothing there that upsets me. Despite the fact that people on the Guild seem eager to paint me as a snowflake, I am far from such and do not endorse SJWs or feminists. I proudly wear my anti-feminist label and think that some feminists are FAR too quick to paint liars as innocent. There's nothing that makes my blood boil quite like the stories of Mattress Girl aka Emma Sulkowitz. This psychopath lied about a man raping her and was even responsible for clearing his name after basically proving she was stalking him. Was she punished? Nope. She was put on a pedestal and is basically worshiped on college campuses worldwide. Scary.

I have also seen false rape accusations happen in my personal life. Twice I've seen ex-wives hurt their ex-husbands by lying about rape. In one particular case, the ex-wife got their child to lie about being raped. I forget exactly how he got his name cleared (I think the child admitted it was a lie?), but that woman got away without a punishment. In no way is this an "equal" society and this may be the closest example I would have in regards to there being a "rape culture" in the western world: a women can lie about rape and ruin a man's life without anything being done? If she's caught, there's no punishment? Absolute bullshit.

In response to your second comment: Out of curiosity, what martial arts do you partake in? I do Jiu Jitsu and I may go on to learn Krav Maga. Anyway, in my case, I actually do want to learn fighting styles and become a fighter as I'm curious and I simply enjoy it. While it isn't exactly what I would recommend to people for self-defense, it is something and it seems that most dojos (at least around here) offer actual self-defense courses as well.

I hope that clears some things up and as I said: I haven't been feeling too well and there's a likely chance that I misread some of your commentary.

[Dion]

@Cynder I do Tang Soo Do, it's the traditional predecessor of Tae Kwon Do, meaning in short that we use the old teachings from the books rather than the new 'sporty' techniques. If you've ever seen Tang Soo Do in America then don't fear - American Tang Soo Do is still a level or two behind us because they use it for money making purposes.

All the people in Europe that practice do it because they love it. So every single form is traditional, and it takes long to reach a black belt level. Like, life-time level long.

We do stuff like realistic self defense (we are traditional but we are capable of adapting, this is why I find it so important) too, but mostly it's all traditional.

For example for my black belt exam I had to do these things;

Theoretical exam (naming stuff in Korean, giving reasons for why I want to be a black belt, showing I know the history of Tang Soo Do)
Sparring 1v1
Sparring 2v1 (with 'take outs' if you hit your opponent hard enough so you can finish the fight early. Not gonna brag but I knocked both my opponents out of the fight. I'm sort of a god, you see?)
Sparring 2v1 with weapons
Hyungs/forms. There's about 10 that you have to show, but there's still so many more for me to learn.
Weapon forms (staff)
60 self defense techniques.

In a normal class we do all the above, but we also do weapons like knives, and my personal favorite right now is the sword.

So.. it's not really self defense oriented, more like a martial art, which is what I meant. There's a difference between self defense sports like MMA and martial arts that are more about a lifestyle and less about a sport.

[Dolerman]

@Cynder I have two addendums. First of all I want to address that a large amount of the rape claims that are filed at the police are actually not true. Before you go batshit crazy (not you specifically but anyone reading this) about how that is sexist and victim blaming (lol victim blaming plz..) let me explain why this is bad for rape victims and men.

First of all if false rape claims are filed a lot more often than real rape claims, it becomes prerogative to assume a new rape claim is fake. 'Oh, most of them are fake.. this one probably is too.' Sounds mean, is reality. Police people do not see people in front of them, they see statistics and numbers. It's important to remember that.

So the more false rape claims, the more skeptical people become of rape claims in general. I can attest, I am very skeptical of rape claims especially when high profile people are involved. The reason is I am a man and I imagine it's hard for women to imagine, but even a false rape claim can permanently ruin a mans life to the point of not ever getting a job ever again.

If a false rape claim was ever filed against me, I'd probably never be capable of living my life out.

So, I am skeptical. Guilty until proven innocent is often how it goes with rape, because the media picks up quick and they have no issue filing your full name, picture and calling you a rapist before a conviction already.

So false rape claims are bad for both sides. Tumblr likes to advocate that there's no such thing as a false rape claim however so apparently I am wrong.

@Buddha

Citation Needed?

False rape claims are absolutely a terrible thing but how are you able to determine that a majority are not true?

@Unfortunately

[Dion]

@Dynamo Frokane Citation depends 100% on which sources you read (duh). The research methods are also really off, and the subject groups are also too small. Scroll down to Rumney (2006) and see for yourself.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation..

There has yet to be a solid research into these numbers, therefore my statement is based entirely upon my own speculation. Perhaps I should have added that, but eh. I'm convinced a large part of the 'proven' rapes are also false.

Especially looking at those cases that make it into the media. Those are a big indicator for me. First of all, if someone doesn't seek the media for their rape case, I find their claim to be raped that much more believable. I don't think a real rape victim would speak to the media openly about what happened, especially if it's a celebrity.

There are many case studies recently that show exactly what I mean. Media-covered 'rapes' are already discredited in my eyes.

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane Citation depends 100% on which sources you read (duh). The research methods are also really off, and the subject groups are also too small. Scroll down to Rumney (2006) and see for yourself.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation..

There has yet to be a solid research into these numbers, therefore my statement is based entirely upon my own speculation. Perhaps I should have added that, but eh. I'm convinced a large part of the 'proven' rapes are also false.

Especially looking at those cases that make it into the media. Those are a big indicator for me. First of all, if someone doesn't seek the media for their rape case, I find their claim to be raped that much more believable. I don't think a real rape victim would speak to the media openly about what happened, especially if it's a celebrity.

There are many case studies recently that show exactly what I mean. Media-covered 'rapes' are already discredited in my eyes.

@Buddha

Well if the citations are speculative at best then thats not really proof is it?

I see a poll from 10 years ago with some very flimsy numbers I mean the 90% false rape report only has 18 people even reporting.

You say you are 'convinced' that LARGE part of proven rapes are false so what is your non-speculative non-anecdotal logic for that?

And as far as the media goes I would agree that the camera spotlight allows the public to buy into a story but that is seperate from a court process or a legal standpoint, judges are trained to stay impartial from what CNN has to say, its not perfect but thats the system we have to prove or disprove anything else.

And even if what you were saying were true, the amount of rapes are reported in the widespread media are only a fraction of the rapes that actually happen, most people who are raped or rapists arent celebrities and the vast majority of people dont give a shit.

What you think a 'real rape victim' would do is again flimsy assumptions at best. Even if you were raped yourself, everyone thinks and behaves differently and the circumstances of each rape are wildly different. Being raped by your husband of 20 years is a different deal to being jumped buy a knife weilding rapist in a bush. And the reactions would be different accordingly.

You can 'feel' however you want about what you think is true and isnt true, but dont throw around words like 'vast majority' and 'proven' unless you can do just that: Prove it.