Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[Vilageidiotx]

@Vilageidiotx I'll start by cleansing Overwatch. Tracer may be fast but she can't hide from my gorilla-kin character forever. The real question is, what will be our 'Kristallnacht' equivalent.

@Buddha

It'll start when they make a gay duke nukem.

"It's time to kick ass and suck cock, and I'm all outta cock!"

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

I honestly believed at this point that even the people that bitch about safe spaces are having their own safe spaces being infiltrated by things they don't like. Or this whole bullshit affair is just a projection of group A being mad group B dares exist in their media while the same group is mad group C is there and wants representation like them.

They just need to realize they're equally bullshit and we need to chill out and realize we live on the same planet orbiting the same star. If you're mad LGBT people are in video games, I'd hate to see you in real-life.

@Dinh AaronMk

Eh, safe spaces is one of those political phrases that took on a ridiculous life of its own. There was an extreme group in the minority of the sociological left that took the idea to bizarre extremes, like suggesting classes be segregated to keep black people from suffering the presence of white people, or stuff like that. And yeh, that was fucked up, but it was such a fringe thing that it wasn't a major threat.

Now safe space is just some piece of jargon both sides throw at each other so that it's completely lost all meaning.

What I always found funny about it is the accusation that women or gays in video games are pandering. Of course they are pandering, because that's what successful companies do; they pander so they can expand their market. Maybe there was a time when video games were purely artistic, in the sense that they were made without marketing in mind by people concerned souly with creation, but that time was long long ago. Video games are a big market, and in the last ten years or so they've became completely mainstream. Used to be you marketed games to that "core market" of young men because breaking out of that market was unfeasible. But now it is completely feasible to increase their marketing base by enlarging the demographic they appeal to. So of course they are going to do that. It isn't a concerted attack on conservative values, it's bland marketing pure and simple. They were doing that before, specific to their base, it's just that nobody complained because they were the ones being pandered to.

Same schtick with the "War on Christmas" that you hear about every year. People see seasonal products marketed in a secular way, replacing "Christmas" with "Holiday" and shit like that, and they think that it's an atheistic scheme, when really it's a corporate decision to try to sell flashing lights to Jews.

The left is not the only force at play when it comes to the erosion of tradition; I'd even argue it isn't by far the most powerful force at work to that end. It's capitalism that wants everything to be marketable to everybody, and it has been capitalism that has, both for better and for worse, most completely dismantled the conservative traditions of the first world. Conservative tradition pigeon-holes markets, and capitalism does not want to remain cooped up in traditional limitations.

[Keyguyperson]

<Snipped quote by DepressedSoviet>

Liquidation of the bourgiese and worker's councils in the gaming industry will fix all problems, including those bitched about in this thread.

@Dinh AaronMk

This tbh comrade.

[Dinh AaronMk]

What I always found funny about it is the accusation that women or gays in video games are pandering. Of course they are pandering, because that's what successful companies do; they pander so they can expand their market. Maybe there was a time when video games were purely artistic, in the sense that they were made without marketing in mind by people concerned souly with creation, but that time was long long ago. Video games are a big market, and in the last ten years or so they've became completely mainstream. Used to be you marketed games to that "core market" of young men because breaking out of that market was unfeasible. But now it is completely feasible to increase their marketing base by enlarging the demographic they appeal to. So of course they are going to do that. It isn't a concerted attack on conservative values, it's bland marketing pure and simple. They were doing that before, specific to their base, it's just that nobody complained because they were the ones being pandered to.

@Vilageidiotx

This is a thing too that's not restricted only to video games. Movies, TVs, and even music (or music videos) do it too and have been for decades. It could be argued ever since the 1980's made being gay hip and acceptable and a discussion worth having on TV it's entered into every accessible medium or every mainstream accessible medium.

It may have started off as that campy thing that certain characters were rolled up in to be "funny" or strange, but homosexuality is now an acceptable thing to market in the post-sexual revolution world.

Maybe it isn't always well-written, in which case you can hem and haw over it. But zero'ing in on the "omg its homosex panda ring" perhaps the better thing to say would be, "they could have handled the writing between these characters to explore the fact". It might even be suggested that writers for video games are the nerd types who grew up on Rambo and Lord of the Rings where romance isn't really a core element of the plot so it any time its handled in anyway it's done so awkwardly. But beyond making a joke about it it may be a low blow to go further, especially given that now-a-days writing for mainstream video games doesn't have much pressure to be particularly intriguing or insightful because it has to now sell to highschoolers and College bros.

We still get a few very well written games, like Witcher and New Vegas. But I have a running bias that anything advertised on Facebook and shit is going to be concentrating more on the spectacle of things going on than the art and wonder of world and plot. I doubt we're going to anywhere like...



Though if someone were to try something of any considerable depth, analytical or otherwise in video games someone'll bitch and moan about the game trying too hard to sound smart in the same way they're trying too hard to be progressive and they need to be more Berry Goldwater.

But on the point about games being art once upon a time: I would say Undertale is that sort of art game. And even without a AAA marketing strategy and elements included to give it broad appeal it writes in some gay plots, lesbian and otherwise.

Same schtick with the "War on Christmas" that you hear about every year. People see seasonal products marketed in a secular way, replacing "Christmas" with "Holiday" and shit like that, and they think that it's an atheistic scheme, when really it's a corporate decision to try to sell flashing lights to Jews.

The left is not the only force at play when it comes to the erosion of tradition; I'd even argue it isn't by far the most powerful force at work to that end. It's capitalism that wants everything to be marketable to everybody, and it has been capitalism that has, both for better and for worse, most completely dismantled the conservative traditions of the first world. Conservative tradition pigeon-holes markets, and capitalism does not want to remain cooped up in traditional limitations.

This reminds me of a post I read on /leftypol/. In it, an anon was responding to an alt-right, super-conservative visitor who was asking why any of it matters, why bother for some socialist paradise where we don't work and we own all the means of automated production, or why no one there bothers to get a job or something; I forget the specifics. In any case, the anon responded to him by spelling out that all the classic arts, literature, and everything traditional he stands for were invented by people who didn't labor in the sense they went to factories and worked 12 hours a day to make bread. All the art, literature, and what not from the time of the cavemen were made by people who had the time to because society provided for them, or these individuals worked only so much to provide for themselves and their community because there was no other expectations on them to do so.

He cited his family history as Appalachians and that during his grandfather's time all the family and cousins would get together at the end of the day and make and perform music. Everyone could play an instrument and his grandfather had a piano he would play during these affairs. But eventually, the capitalist world caught up and the family could no longer hang on doing that. The farm went under, the family had to separate to find work elsewhere, and now even working eight hours shifts no one had the time, money, or energy to learn to perform folk music as they had and these days no one in his family can do as they did and pursue their old art.

[Vilageidiotx]

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

This is a thing too that's not restricted only to video games. Movies, TVs, and even music (or music videos) do it too and have been for decades. It could be argued ever since the 1980's made being gay hip and acceptable and a discussion worth having on TV it's entered into every accessible medium or every mainstream accessible medium.

It may have started off as that campy thing that certain characters were rolled up in to be "funny" or strange, but homosexuality is now an acceptable thing to market in the post-sexual revolution world.

Maybe it isn't always well-written, in which case you can hem and haw over it. But zero'ing in on the "omg its homosex panda ring" perhaps the better thing to say would be, "they could have handled the writing between these characters to explore the fact". It might even be suggested that writers for video games are the nerd types who grew up on Rambo and Lord of the Rings where romance isn't really a core element of the plot so it any time its handled in anyway it's done so awkwardly. But beyond making a joke about it it may be a low blow to go further, especially given that now-a-days writing for mainstream video games doesn't have much pressure to be particularly intriguing or insightful because it has to now sell to highschoolers and College bros.

We still get a few very well written games, like Witcher and New Vegas. But I have a running bias that anything advertised on Facebook and shit is going to be concentrating more on the spectacle of things going on than the art and wonder of world and plot. I doubt we're going to anywhere like...

Though if someone were to try something of any considerable depth, analytical or otherwise in video games someone'll bitch and moan about the game trying too hard to sound smart in the same way they're trying too hard to be progressive and they need to be more Berry Goldwater.

But on the point about games being art once upon a time: I would say Undertale is that sort of art game. And even without a AAA marketing strategy and elements included to give it broad appeal it writes in some gay plots, lesbian and otherwise.

@Dinh AaronMk

Mainstream media in a market-based system becomes diluted by pandering pretty much always, so long as it is truly mainstream. And in every one of those cases, niche markets rise up parallel to the mainstream, sometimes producing art, sometimes just pandering to a more specific demographic. Video Games are at that point now, with small developers getting way more attention then they did ten years ago. I think Minecraft started that trend.

This reminds me of a post I read on /leftypol/. In it, an anon was responding to an alt-right, super-conservative visitor who was asking why any of it matters, why bother for some socialist paradise where we don't work and we own all the means of automated production, or why no one there bothers to get a job or something; I forget the specifics. In any case, the anon responded to him by spelling out that all the classic arts, literature, and everything traditional he stands for were invented by people who didn't labor in the sense they went to factories and worked 12 hours a day to make bread. All the art, literature, and what not from the time of the cavemen were made by people who had the time to because society provided for them, or these individuals worked only so much to provide for themselves and their community because there was no other expectations on them to do so.

He cited his family history as Appalachians and that during his grandfather's time all the family and cousins would get together at the end of the day and make and perform music. Everyone could play an instrument and his grandfather had a piano he would play during these affairs. But eventually, the capitalist world caught up and the family could no longer hang on doing that. The farm went under, the family had to separate to find work elsewhere, and now even working eight hours shifts no one had the time, money, or energy to learn to perform folk music as they had and these days no one in his family can do as they did and pursue their old art.

@Dinh AaronMk

To that guy's question: a person can have a job and be a leftist. I have a full time job, that pays well and doesn't give me shit, and I'm perfectly content with it. Doesn't mean I have to pay homage to capitalism in some religious way. My leftism comes from a complete lack of faith in capitalism's permanence going forward. I think people have fallen for this bizarre black-and-white fantasy that, because Leninist Communism collapsed, capitalism is now the permanent system of human civilization for all time and always. If you even spent a moment thinking about alternatives, you are a heretic. And that is alarming. If you make something sacred, even necessary criticism becomes a heresy. If I thought that I'd have my current quality of life for the rest of my life (barring biological impediments), and that everyone else would be slowly raised up to the same level, then yeh, I'd be a political centrist. But from what I've read and seen, I think we are running headlong into peak-capitalism, when my life and the lives of most everyone else starts getting worse.

Some art is produced by working folk. You do get stories like the conditions in which Steven King wrote Carrie. But it is generally true, and not even a controversial idea really, that part of the function of the working class is to make a class of people who experience and create culture possible. Shit, the idea was pretty much mainstream until the 19th century. I'd even bet that similar things are whispered in garden parties by our own rich and famous today, even if it is less fashionable in a democracy to admit it.

[Dinh AaronMk]

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Mainstream media in a market-based system becomes diluted by pandering pretty much always, so long as it is truly mainstream. And in every one of those cases, niche markets rise up parallel to the mainstream, sometimes producing art, sometimes just pandering to a more specific demographic. Video Games are at that point now, with small developers getting way more attention then they did ten years ago. I think Minecraft started that trend.

@Vilageidiotx

See: Meet and Fuck. Or all those other anime dating sims.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

To that guy's question: a person can have a job and be a leftist. I have a full time job, that pays well and doesn't give me shit, and I'm perfectly content with it. Doesn't mean I have to pay homage to capitalism in some religious way. My leftism comes from a complete lack of faith in capitalism's permanence going forward. I think people have fallen for this bizarre black-and-white fantasy that, because Leninist Communism collapsed, capitalism is now the permanent system of human civilization for all time and always. If you even spent a moment thinking about alternatives, you are a heretic. And that is alarming. If you make something sacred, even necessary criticism becomes a heresy. If I thought that I'd have my current quality of life for the rest of my life (barring biological impediments), and that everyone else would be slowly raised up to the same level, then yeh, I'd be a political centrist. But from what I've read and seen, I think we are running headlong into peak-capitalism, when my life and the lives of most everyone else starts getting worse.

Some art is produced by working folk. You do get stories like the conditions in which Steven King wrote Carrie. But it is generally true, and not even a controversial idea really, that part of the function of the working class is to make a class of people who experience and create culture possible. Shit, the idea was pretty much mainstream until the 19th century. I'd even bet that similar things are whispered in garden parties by our own rich and famous today, even if it is less fashionable in a democracy to admit it.

@Vilageidiotx

I actually had to leave a Discord chat recently because I had gotten a quick reputation of deriding capitalism which made everyone no longer take me seriously. In one particular major point I found myself arguing with three or four people in the debate section who were trying to defend the capitalist system as being the most purest and moderate centralism is the best option, where I was arguing from an albeit amorphous left-lib, AnarcoCom, even straight-communist perspective. I think I told you about it before when they were using undefined "human nature" and "shit's too hard" as counter-arguments.

In any case, it got to the point they weren't taking the argument seriously and were strawmanning and taking it all as such a hilarious heresy I had to cut things. Later someone was telling big-daddy Right-Lib when he returned about "the anarchist" who was just there and he made comments about how "special" those sorts of people are.

So there's a sort of cultural antipathy I guess you could say, and I say this because as it turns out these people were either college freshmen or high schoolers so they've not yet learned what it's like to bleed for pay or really plan things out because mommy's money's got them. But it kind of reinforces for me this anti-intellectual notion from self-described moderates using intellectual fallacy has convinced itself centrism is best and the current system is OK, which is starting to sound more like a new conservatism.

And then I got tired of them because even in casual chat they believed going "boop" was the height of conversational quality.

But per what I mentioned earlier, I really wish I could find that post. It was posted as a screenshot, but I can't help but feel I fucked up the retelling. Oh well.

[Vilageidiotx]

Later someone was telling big-daddy Right-Lib when he returned about "the anarchist" who was just there and he made comments about how "special" those sorts of people are.

@Dinh AaronMk

what room some ron paul fucboi got to talk shit? right libertarianism is that phase american highschool boys go through when they are trying to convince themselves it is super easy to succeed and they won't have to really work at it that hard, since everyone complaining is just nonsensically lazy.

[Dolerman]

@Vilageidiotx@Dinh AaronMk can you take your Maoist circlejerk somewhere else please you commie bastards.

This is a thread about

SERIUS VIDEOGAMES BIZNESS

[Dinh AaronMk]

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

what room some ron paul fucboi got to talk shit? right libertarianism is that phase american highschool boys go through when they are trying to convince themselves it is super easy to succeed and they won't have to really work at it that hard, since everyone complaining is just nonsensically lazy.

@Vilageidiotx

Fuck if I know, but this guy built up his credentials among the chat for posting articles deriding immigration and Muslims and every-time a defense is raised he talks about Dearborn like it matters. Like, what the Hell does Dearborn have to do with anything? I can still go get drunk there and no one would give a shit, there's just more mosques than churches now.

That and he talks about stock-market forces and the ups and downs of the market so he sounds like the internet chat-room equivalent of a Fox Money or CNN Money analyst. So don't you ever dear say the system is fucked because you're threatening the stock portfolio he may or may not have! DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH THE HEDGE FUND HE'LL USE TO BUY A CONDO HE'LL RENT OUT TO PAY OFF HIS STUDENT DEBT.



On an unrelated note I accidentally pressed the key to print out this page on the thread and the image of having an entire long dissection of capitalism from the far-left printing out in a room presently dominated by the classic mid-century Republican came to mind.

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Vilageidiotx@Dinh AaronMk can you take your Maoist circlejerk somewhere else please you commie bastards.

This is a thread about

SERIUS VIDEOGAMES BIZNESS

@Dynamo Frokane

Serious video game discussion can only occur when we arm the poor and organize them into militias to fight the powers that be. 👌

[Dolerman]

@Fabricant451@DepressedSoviet@Dinh AaronMk@Vilageidiotx

my next rant thread will be about JonTron and all the racist shit he said, you guys will eat that thread up.

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Fabricant451@DepressedSoviet@Dinh AaronMk@Vilageidiotx

my next rant thread will be about JonTron and all the racist shit he said, you guys will eat that thread up.

@Dynamo Frokane

I already got the battle theme lined up.



:^)

[Fabricant451]

@Dynamo Frokane

[Dolerman]

@Fabricant451 get your ass in the thread and start wrecking house, youre like a really effective grenade that only seems to blow up in my back yard.

[Dolerman]

@Fabricant451 "Hey look I wont criticize anyone but Dynamo"
:P

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I can like people and respect people I disagree with. Odd right? I can find different political views funny. Like Stephan Colbert when he ran his show, was funny. If they sent me music, if I asked for it. I wouldn't bother acknowledging that I disagree with their outside thoughts, and simply thank them for the music. Like a normal healthy person should. :D

^-^ Even if the feeling isn't mutual or given back. Can also admit to making mistakes, which certain members can't seem to grasp despite evidence being literally on my doorstep.

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane I can like people and respect people I disagree with. Odd right? I can find different political views funny. Like Stephan Colbert when he ran his show, was funny. If they sent me music, if I asked for it. I wouldn't bother acknowledging that I disagree with their outside thoughts, and simply thank them for the music. Like a normal healthy person should. :D

^-^ Even if the feeling isn't mutual or given back. Can also admit to making mistakes, which certain members can't seem to grasp despite evidence being literally on my doorstep.

@SleepingSilence

You made the mistake of asserting that I was asserting JonTron is racist, how about admitting to that and we can go from there.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane Be honest, do you truly believe JonTron is racist? Just say yes or no...If yes (and really come on now, I know you can do it.)...is it really even wrong to correctly attribute your feelings (THOUGH i didn't...and made a stupidly long response explaining otherwise.) If no...well let me be honest, you'd laugh the story off and talk about someone else...because I will say racism does still exist. So why not go after them instead?

I tried being casual with you plenty of times...debating otherwise, will lead me to point out the music example I still have evidence of and the very things I posted saying I would find a member fun in a social event. And criticizing that, and assuming I'm creepy for being kind to others, instead of just treating them like shit...-.-

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence read my post that i quoted pubutter im very clear about my views on jontron

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I mean, yes...yes it is...But...a simple yes or no would be nice. Please? With a cherry on a top? :D

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane I mean, yes...yes it is...But...a simple yes or no would be nice. Please? With a cherry on a top? :D

@SleepingSilence

I'm giving you a very clear I'm not sure, thats why I said possibly.

Do you and that right wing pugbutter really think I'm somehow SCARED of saying JonTron is racist explicitly? Because I'm really not scared of expressing any view about JonTron on a forum. I just don't happen to be convinced that he is just yet.