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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Guru
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I got pitched a thing.

So, Darth, suggested that to make the transition into the arena easier, that we give you lot pre-made characters. I'm down with some of you accepting them, and others not, but for fairness sake, it may be better of you all do or not.

This ay, you can focus on learning the steps of combat first before being thrust into designing an RP character s well as the thought processes slightly different.


I can see his point there, but got mixed feelings on that one. But I'll leave it up to them. My suggestion would be not to. The character creation is such a huge part of arena play. Or perhaps they can create a character, but also use a premade one to start with? I'd hate for them to miss out on that, but at the same time... I feel some of them could use a better idea for what they might build for.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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I had the idea myself as well, and i'd say it's good, as it also helps with balancing the characters out against eachother; but wouldn't it be better for the participants to just closely work on the character sheets together with their mentors instead? It's both the help they may need and an opportunity for their own creative work to be done.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Could work both ways. Mentors could go over the sheets with them so hey can see what to expect and how and why
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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The idea was to come up with pre-made abilities for each element, a passive, and some equipment or w/e, for people to choose from. They'd still make the character, but the resources they have available to them to construct the character's powerset and equipment are available to everyone and standardised. For example:

Element: Fire
Fireball, Fireslash, Heatwave, Burning Smoke, Fire Jump

Passive: Superstrong, durable, fast, acute, etc.

And then allow the player to choose three of those abilities from two elements or w/e, one passive, and so on.

It'd require a bit of work on the GM's part to construct a reasonable amount of abilities for each element, but it shouldn't be too difficult to balance it all.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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Honestly I'd rather create my own character. Nothing against the premades! But I think creating a character for T1 Eden will help me get a deeper understanding than trying to use something someone else made.

But I don't see anything wrong with someone else using a premade. It wouldn't hurt me at all, I just want to go through the entire process of creation and combat in T1 myself so I can understand the finer points.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Darth
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So, to elaborate on what I pitched to Rilla, I'll go over the basic approach. First and foremost, let me clear up a misunderstanding: what I pitched wasn't premade characters, it was creating characters from a specific set of options in order to simplify the character creation process and to ensure parity of power between the various characters; character balance can be an elusive concept in T1, and so by creating a system of abilities that everyone adheres to and chooses from, it gives us (the "mentors") a better opportunity to keep the playing field even for people. It's much easier to learn on a level playing field than an unlevel one.

The basic premise is similar to what you might find in tabletop RPGs: at character creation, you have a limited number of options to choose with which to build your characters, and these options are roughly equal in scope, if not necessarily in form or function. The categories would be Primary Element, Secondary Element, Primary Weapon, Secondary Weapon, Armor, and a Passive ability.

Each of these categories breaks down further. In the Elements, we might have, say, six elements: fire, water, wind, stone, light, and shadow. Within each element, there is a total of ten "abilities" ranging from long range to short range, defensive powers, movement powers, and the like. Each player would pick three "abilities" from their primary Element and two from their Secondary. Example: I make a Fire-Stone elementalist. I choose three fire abilities and two stone abilities.

In the next three categories, we have equipment. We can keep it simple here -- a broad range of weapons, any two chosen, and one choice of armor.

The final category would be passive, which could influence how your character operates. They might be faster, or stronger, or more durable. something that fundamentally changes the way you approach playing the character in a simple way.

So, the end result -- again, not pre-made, but generated using pre-made concepts -- would look something like:

Name: Jimmy John Bigboulder
Race: Human
Age: 20
Height: 6'0''
Weight: 240 lb
Passive: Strong -- Character is stronger than average by X or Y margin (say, he can lift 2,500 off the ground and 1,000 overhead).
Primary Element: Stone
Secondary Element: Light
Primary Ability 1: Stone Defensive Ability
Primary Ability 2: Stone Movement Ability
Primary Ability 3: Stone Melee Ability
Secondary Ability 1: Light Melee Ability
Secondary Ability 2: Light Defensive Ability
Secondary Ability 3: Light Utility Ability
Primary Weapon: Roundshield
Secondary Weapon: Roundshield
Armor: Breastplate

Obviously there's a lot of placeholders here and it's not as though any of this is remotely finalized, but you get the idea. Just from the sample sheet above, we can look at the character and see that I made a big, burly brawler who, presumably, has doubled up on defense and on melee fighting while dual-wielding shields.

I can generate other examples pretty quickly. In this way, new players can learn how to shape and contour their character's ability to suit what interests them or inspires them: maybe they want to play a defensive-oriented character, or a highly mobile one. by picking and choosing specific abilities, passives, and equipment, they can easily do so without having to try to draw it out from a broad spectra ability like "element manipulation" which can be subject to a lot of questions (how, what, when, where, why, to what degree, etc).

Hope that clears things up a touch.

EDIT:: This would also be really beneficial in the instances where mentors spar or fight against new players, because it means that, while the mentor might have more complex ideas regarding a character's powerset, they're limited to the same tools as the new player, so the disparity in knowledge and experience isn't quite so stark.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dark Light
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I think ya'll just over complicating it.
The idea wasn't to 'idiot proof' the system but to mentor or 'teach' the players how to do it properly.

If a character needs work then work on it with the player. A good start would be by having an example specific to this RP.

So far I have seen a lot of debate on technicalities and terms but not a lot of teaching. The longer this goes on the more I'm actually getting put off this idea.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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IMHO, that wouldn't be what the tournament was advertised as. Players didn't sign up for it expecting such a system, so i don't think it'd be a good idea to implement it now - unless we receive unanimous agreement from the participants.

That being said, i'm still a proponent of a more traditional approach. This kind of system isn't currently being used among arena members, so it won't be properly teaching the relevant skills or knowledge in terms of character creation - or at the very least, it might deliver a skewed perception of how it's done.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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I think ya'll just over complicating it.
The idea wasn't to 'idiot proof' the system but to mentor or 'teach' the players how to do it properly.

If a character needs work then work on it with the player. A good start would be by having an example specific to this RP.

So far I have seen a lot of debate on technicalities and terms but not a lot of teaching. The longer this goes on the more I'm actually getting put off this idea.


Well, technically the idea was to introduce people to Arena combat. Creating Arena characters is a different skillset altogether, but learning how to fight and how powers work in combat can give you additional insight into the creative process. A lot of people are put off after their first fight because they are outmatched by an unbalanced character, this system would nip that issue in the bud.

I'm fairly certain this tournament was advertised as being a stripped down learning environment Vordak. Rilla literally said to use one or two elements in creating characters, this is just balancing the process.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Guru
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I think ya'll just over complicating it.
The idea wasn't to 'idiot proof' the system but to mentor or 'teach' the players how to do it properly.

If a character needs work then work on it with the player. A good start would be by having an example specific to this RP.

So far I have seen a lot of debate on technicalities and terms but not a lot of teaching. The longer this goes on the more I'm actually getting put off this idea.


Agreed. We've always said the best way to learn the arena is to just do it. Characters and all. I don't think this needs to be overcomplicated more than the arena already can be.

As far as teaching goes... not much we can really teach right now. We need people to start posting their characters. So we cab get things going.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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What Guru said. I can go on with lengthy ramblings detailing my approach to RP combat - but it's a much more efficient process when there's actual questions to answer or at least some sort of topic that needs to be explained.

Also, is nobody gonna go hand-to-hand? I mean, if you need teaching to be done, i'm already offering my help on understanding a purist brawler approach, reccomendations on character build included.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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Kratesis Spiritus Mundi

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@Vordak You know what, I've already finished my character and submitted it but I'll take you as a mentor if you are interested. I have powers this go-round but I like hand to hand stuff too.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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I'm sure the tournament will work either way, Rilla will just have to reconcile character imbalance when all the characters are in, rather than doing it pre-emptively with this system.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Darth
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IMHO, that wouldn't be what the tournament was advertised as. Players didn't sign up for it expecting such a system, so i don't think it'd be a good idea to implement it now - unless we receive unanimous agreement from the participants.

That being said, i'm still a proponent of a more traditional approach. This kind of system isn't currently being used among arena members, so it won't be properly teaching the relevant skills or knowledge in terms of character creation - or at the very least, it might deliver a skewed perception of how it's done.


Every single Arena member uses the underlying premise of this system whether or not they realize it; all I'm suggesting is that it be enormously simplified in favor of making grab and go characters that can be easily and readily played without having to consider things like balance, character scope, and other myriad concerns that usually plague arena players.

Defining and limiting isn't complicating -- it's simplifying.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dark Light
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@Guru
I'm unsure if I currently need a more specific descriptions for my powers.
As an air elementalist I just assume it naturally covers everything an air bender can do. Or would I need to break it down into more specific moves?

For example, with my current description would it be wrong if I tried to make a cushion of air to soften a fall, or summon a shield of air to block a projectile?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dark Light
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@Vordak

I will be favouring hand to hand but considered a weapon somewhat essential to certain matches. (Tried to pick something exotic that would suit his style.)

Instead of attacking with magic I was more aiming to complement or aid his martial prowess.

Anyway I'll be happy to have a pre-arena hand to hand battle with your character @Kratesis :)
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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@Dark Light Do you know when the tournament is suppose to start? I don't want to burn all my energy before we get going but if it is going to be a minute I might be up for a ranked battle!
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Guru
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@Darth They gotta learn some time. You aren't doing them any favors by simplifying things.

@Dark Light I will be messaging you later today. And in that regards, if it's ok with you, I'd like to be your mentor. I feel we'd make a good match.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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@Kratesis

It's not just a preference, but a choice based upon my own proficiency: from what i see, you're going with a swordsman as your character - and i'm afraid, i'm worse with armed combat than i am with HtH, largely due to having more experience in roleplaying the latter. I wouldn't be the worst to ask advice on swordsmaship, but i consider myself a bit clumsier when it comes to properly using any melee weapon that isn't a dagger or pair of brass knuckles.

@Dark Light

I like that approach myself. Give me a short while and i'll shoot you a PM.

well nevermind then. Guru, you sneaky ninja bastard.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Darth
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@Darth They gotta learn some time. You aren't doing them any favors by simplifying things.

@Dark Light I will be messaging you later today. And in that regards, if it's ok with you, I'd like to be your mentor. I feel we'd make a good match.


I'm doing them a pretty big favor by simplifying things because I'm:

1. Making it immediately easy to grasp without minimal potential complications.
2. Putting aside concerns regarding character balance in order to focus on learning how to play
3. Giving them a quick, easy means of crafting a combat-capable character and giving them a guideline on which to build.

So I'd say I'm doing the plenty of favors.

EDIT:: Just realized I probably sound snippy. Not meaning to, just haven't slept yet.
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