Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by tex
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Smash bros is its own beast entirely, and can't really be effectively compared to most other fighting games. I think there's a whole lot of reductive commentary going on about the state of smash bros 'round here though. All things considered, this newest title looks a lot more interesting than the past 2.

And what's all this talk about 'innovation' anyways? Like, that's such a broad term, what is it referring to exactly; gameplay feel; competitive strategy; visual flare? And from there, how?

I for one think that smash ultimate introducing direction air dodges and perfect guards already adds enough to entirely mix-up how the game is played. The differences are nuanced, sure. But if you compare it to something like the addition of 'tag battle' functions, it's hard to argue which mechanic brings more change.

Combo extensions add literally nothing to a fighter, except a way to increase your damage. The only healthy mechanic of tag-battlers is the ability to call in assists that follow a unique set of rules on the battlefield. Even then, these differences can be minimal at worst.

Smash has always been a party game first, but the game is perfectly viable competitively. Brawl and smash 4 have offered very little in positive innovation admittedly, Brawl especially falling completely flat on its face. But the slight tweaks to mechanics have prevented them from being stagnant titles. The balance changes between titles have been rather extensive, too. Hitboxes, I.Frames, Superarmor, all that good shit that competitive players care about has gone through a fair amount of change. If you praise the balance changes in face-to-face fighters, and condemn the changes that smash makes, I feel that to be a little narrow.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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@Fabricant451 Im not quote cutting your text wall.


Cool. I am.

Now Tekken has had 7 iterations not counting the spin offs and SC has had 5. With all those sequels youve given a grand total of 5 innovations between them. And this is a series that has been around for far longer than Smash Bros.


Which is more than you'd given about Smash up to now, and I didn't even list everything. But sure, go ahead and act like those things I said are the only ones that exist because it's easier.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty mechanics of Tekken and straight up ignore, the air dodge, spot dodging, power shielding, short hopping, wavedashing, moonwalking, meteor smash, sweet spotting, chain grabbing and about a million other fine tuned innovations to the games which you just refuse to acknowledge then this is not a conversation.


'A million'. That's not true at all! That's only like nine things that they've done, and that's being generous considering one of them is literally an exploit that the creator hated and took out of the game, chain grabbing was literally removed too. It's almost like the game rolls back any attempt to be played at any level above casual. If we count literal exploits and glitches as 'innovations' then Smash Brothers is the most innovative fighting series this side of WWE 2K.

Tekken and Soul Calibur have little additions and innovations as well and your attempts to downplay that are well noted.

Moves are upgraded, nerfed, buffed, different frame data and priority not only with every update but with every game. Reducing it down to 'Mario throws a cappy instead of a Cape based on the FIRST gameplay trailer ive game neing relased 6 months from now' being the only change is ridiculous.


About as ridiculous as you acting like actual fighting games don't innovate.

Also smash brothers is literally its own Genre




you cant suck Tekken's dick for innovating 3D and just causally ignore the inception of the mascot brawler which was shamelessly ripped off by games like Digimon Rumble Arena and Playstation All Stars


I can suck Tekken's dick all I want for being a better franchise and doing more for the genre than Smash ever has or ever will.

Smash is its own genre, its a party mascot brawler that doesnt fit neatly into your simplified understanding of games.




It has fighting mechanics and party mechanics. Its a game that has fighting in it that doesnt fit for a hyper competetive scene because its built to be a multiplayer with item pick ups and pseudo platforming.


The fighting mechanics which literally get removed if they're exploits or otherwise seen as 'not intended'. It's a bad fighting game and yet that's what it is. You can't say it's not a fighting game when it looks like a fighting game, sounds like a fighting game, and its largest community is literally pitching it as a fighting game. If it wasn't, why would they ban characters from tournaments or online play? Competitive is the entire focal point of the game.

You dont see the One Piece or Naruto games at EVO either even though they have fighting game mechanics.


Not on the main stage, no. But those are fighting games too.

What you mean like those oversized anime tits in that game Starless you like where those maids shit and piss on each other? You might be projecting a little here.


Oh, so you have heard of it. Here I thought you were still of the mindset that HuniePop was the be all end all of bad games with anime tits.

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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Disregard
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Bee
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honest to god I was about to put horizon: zero dawn as an overrated game. it didn't really grab me at first but I still kept pushing on despite me being bored with it at first. after taking the time to sit down and pound out the rest of the game in one sitting I fell in love with it. that game really does deserve all the praise it gets. everything is fantastic, besides the fast traveling system (it's really hard for me to find rich meat, okay?). the story really roped me in at the halfway point and I could not put the game down when I was actually able to trudge through the story. I did play on "normal difficulty", but I ended up spending an hour battling a rockbreaker not too long ago. overall, it's a super good game that deserves an even better sequel.

also, another underrated game is need for speed: payback. yeah, it's an EA game, but it's a LOT of fun despite what people say about it. the lootbox problem is more than exaggerated in this game. it is entirely possible for you to make your car super duper fast if you know how to use the trade-in system and have a little patience. does it have its flaws? yes, it does. there's the blatant rubberbanding on hard mode (but let's be honest, most, if not all racing games have rubberbanding on harder difficulties). there is also the lack of fun police chases and the shoehorning of point-to-point routes even for the most menial of tasks (the game literally has you race through checkpoints just to take your character home). but, the game is still really fun and does its job as an arcade racer very nicely. no fancy gimmicks, no bullshit, just you, your car, and the other car(s). nobody plays racing games for their story, so I pushed their thinly-veiled and rather poor attempt at being like fast and furious aside and just enjoyed the game for what it was. it suffers from the same problem as mass effect: andromeda, only this time the game lasted longer. I'm excited to see what the next need for speed installment will be like, and hopefully it'll be much better the next time around.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by tex
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I do recall putting Horizon down after the slow pacing got to me. I think after playing so many open world games, I just couldn't be bothered to sift through the first 10 hours without getting bored. Maybe I should go back to it.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by skidcrow
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I do recall putting Horizon down after the slow pacing got to me. I think after playing so many open world games, I just couldn't be bothered to sift through the first 10 hours without getting bored. Maybe I should go back to it.


you should
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by mickilennial
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horizon really comes into its own in its second act
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the lootbox problem is more than exaggerated in this game. it is entirely possible for you to make your car super duper fast if you know how to use the trade-in system and have a little patience.


Gamers angry about things they don't even understand, story at 11.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Horizon Zero Dawn is one of those games that people think is 'woke' because it has suppprting characters with dreadlocks and/or vaguely ethnic looking hair decorations. Try not to remind those same people the fact they are playing as an attractive caucasian redhead voiced by Ashly Birch.
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Horizon Zero Dawn is one of those games that people think is 'woke' because it has suppprting characters with dreadlocks and/or vaguely ethnic looking hair decorations. Try not to remind those same people the fact they are playing as an attractive caucasian redhead voiced by Ashly Birch.


I can never tell when you're serious or not and at this point I'm just along for the takes. Horizon Zero Dawn is not a game people think is 'woke' it's a game people liked for about a week then no one talked about it because Zelda was out.
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If you ask me, I think Spec Ops: The Line by far the most underrated game. A psychological horror game about the horrors of war and deconstruction of the modern shooter genre disguised as a generic, run-of-the-mill third person shooter. Brilliant writing, excellent visuals, amazing voice acting. Also all the tiny details you only notice after completing the game and playing through it the second time, subtle hints to Walker's growing insanity. The game is basically just one big middle finger to popular shooters such as CoD in which the elite special forces soldier protagonist goes to some Middle Eastern country and shoots a bunch of terrorists and saves the day, showing what would really happen if you try to be a hero: you can't. You basically fuck up the city you were trying to save and pretty much doom its inhabitants to slow, agonising deaths by dehydration.

You spend a majority of the game fighting American soldiers and not generic Middle Eastern terrorists. The totally evil bad guy who's been taunting you over the radio and trying to kill you isn't even doing any of those things, because he's dead. He killed himself before Walker and his teammates even arrived in Dubai, and the Konrad we see in the game is simply a result of Walker's insane hallucinations, since he needed someone to blame for his own actions. Nobody saw the plot twist coming unless you paid very close attention to the surrounding environment and take note of the subtle hints.

Overall, the game not only criticises Walker for trying to be a hero, but the player as well, that trying to be a hero has only caused more death and destruction than before. So,

Do you feel like a hero yet?

Overrated would probably be Undertale or Doki Doki Literature Club, because come on, I'm sure you all know why.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Horizon Zero Dawn is not a game people think is 'woke'


Okay

Bruh

Sure
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by skidcrow
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TIL Dynamo thinks The Guardian and Polygon are credible sources.

Horizon Zero Dawn is one of those games that people think is 'woke' because it has suppprting characters with dreadlocks and/or vaguely ethnic looking hair decorations. Try not to remind those same people the fact they are playing as an attractive caucasian redhead voiced by Ashly Birch.


There was really only a loud minority that fapped themselves silly over "muh women and dreadlocks". What people really enjoyed Horizon for was the actual game. A lot of people brushed past it because it wasn't an exclusive from an existing franchise or even that well known of a developer.

EDIT: Hell, even ridiculously "anti-SJW" channels like Rags (a guy with very 4chan views and a video list comprising of 99% "le console gamer pleb is stupid" videos) pointed out how Horizon wasn't special for having a female protagonist. People just enjoyed it because it's a good game, not everything is #deep.
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TIL Dynamo thinks The Guardian and Polygon are credible sources.


TIL the standard of 'people' is only #TrueHXCGamers420 that have youtube videos that Mara approves.
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<Snipped quote by Mara>

TIL the standard of 'people' is only #TrueHXCGamers420 that have youtube videos that Mara approves.


You're goddamn fucking right it is.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Okay

Bruh

Sure


Literally only one of those articles even uses the term 'woke' and it's not even an article that is outright praising the game. Surprise, though, a website that has a portion of its staff and articles devoted to discussing diversity and progressive aspects would run an article about the lore of the game explaining the diversity of its various tribes. If Horizon: Zero Dawn was lauded it wasn't because "IT'S FOR FEMINISTS FINALLY!" because it's not even the first game to star a female character nor is it the first one where there's a matriarchal society. The matriarchal society isn't even presented as 'good because women run it' considering they're actually kind of in the wrong for half the fucking game.

Horizon is a good game because of its gameplay mechanics and the craft put into the world, including its narrative, but it's not some example of 'woke video gaming'. If you want that, you won't find it in a AAA release. Go play some Christine Love games or Butterfly Soup or the hundreds of other indie games for 'woke' sorts.

Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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@Fabricant451

You seem to be be fighting my hologram in the contrarian danger room. I never said I thought HZD was woke, I literally mocked that idea. I said some people do and they are short sighted. I'm somehwat indifferent about the gameplay, its solid if not a litlle dull, and while none of the characters are 'bad' they are too many with too little to disginguish them and they are all instantly forgettable. The pacing is also bad.

There is my opinion your precious open world epic.

EDIT: It feels odd debating without Prawn jumping in to mindlessly agree with you. Tell Jim Gordon to flash the Fabricant signal or something.
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prawn machine 🅱️roke
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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EDIT: It feels odd debating without Prawn jumping in to mindlessly agree with you. Tell Jim Gordon to flash the Fabricant signal or something.


You act like I pushed a button and summoned him. Well I guess I hit the 'post reply' button but that doesn't count.

You seem to be be fighting my hologram in the contrarian danger room. I never said I thought HZD was woke, I literally mocked that idea.




There is my opinion your precious open world epic.


Don't put words in my mouth I would never use the word precious.
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EDIT: It feels odd debating without Prawn jumping in to mindlessly agree with you. Tell Jim Gordon to flash the Fabricant signal or something.


I can insult him again if you want
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