Underrated and Overrated Video Games

[mickilennial]

Yeah but I'm right this time so it's fine.

@Fabricant451

Nah.

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>
Nah.

@Inkarnate

Shit. Foiled again. I'll get you next time, Gadget.

[Dolerman]

@Todd Howard@Peter Molyneux

Fabricant wont be satisfied until they announce this at E3

[skidcrow]

I should've placed bets on how many people would jerk off Nintendo after their E3 conference; I'd be rich.

Sony stole the show for me (no I'm not bias because I saw more of my gay icon Ellie shutup), personally. Been hearing people say Microsoft was the best but ehhhh. Bethesda I'm... conflicted on and Ubisoft can go fuck themselves backwards with a polearm.

[Dolerman]

Nintendo's showcase was literally just Smash Bros with nothing else worthy of note.

>Praises SquareEnix showcase for the sole inclusion of KH3

[Fabricant451]

I should've placed bets on how many people would jerk off Nintendo after their E3 conference; I'd be rich.

Sony stole the show for me (no I'm not bias because I saw more of my gay icon Ellie shutup), personally. Been hearing people say Microsoft was the best but ehhhh. Bethesda I'm... conflicted on and Ubisoft can go fuck themselves backwards with a polearm.

@Mara

People say Microsoft is the best just because they showed the most games and like 97 percent of what they showed is going to be on platforms people care about anyway. They seem to just casually avoid the fact that Microsoft year after year this generation has shown they have no actual first party legs to stand on - and that they want to hold Crackdown 3 of all games up to the same pedestal as fucking Halo and Gears is laughable. First party games are system sellers and Microsoft's whole Xbox One X rebranding seems aimed at cornering the very niche market of 'gamers with 4K televisions who want to play console games at 60 fps but also don't have a PC that has been doing it for years' while Sony continues to be "This is why you should play on our console because you can't play it anywhere else".

Sony didn't have to show anything beyond their first party releases because Microsoft already did the work for them. The common consumer isn't going to watch E3 so it's not like there's going to be Joe Gamerman watching E3 and saying "Oh man the Xbox has 50 games coming out and Sony has like 6." Sony also showed gameplay instead of just running trailers, and while you can sing for days how the Sony gameplay was fabricated or not indicative of the actual product, at least they fucking showed it. Microsoft continues to try and pretend that putting people on stage holding controllers will fool everyone into thinking it's a live demo. Yeah I'm sure Forza Horizon 4 was being played real time, guys.

Just showing trailer after trailer is what The Game Awards are for and those are still a joke.

On the topic of Ubisoft, they provide a vital service. No other company continues to not know how to turn off a fucking live mic when people go off stage.

Nintendo's showcase was literally just Smash Bros with nothing else worthy of note.

>Praises SquareEnix showcase for the sole inclusion of KH3

@Dynamo Frokane

No one is praising Square Enix for their showing. It was concise, too much so, and the only thing of any note was that Platinum is making a new game. Sony wound up showing a better KH3 segment than Square anyway. Nintendo had a weak showing because Smash is lame as shit and a Smash with the twist of "We put everyone in it you babies" is still lame as shit. And a Pokemon game inspired by Pokemon Go and also stroking off Genwunners is also lame as shit. But Nintendo also had a banner year in 2017 by releasing two of the highest rated (and over rated) games of that year so them taking a gap year is pretty expected.

[Dolerman]

Nintendo had a weak showing because Smash is lame as shit and a Smash with the twist of "We put everyone in it you babies" is still lame as shit.

@Fabricant451

Dynamo shits on popular franchises to bait.....

And Smash doesn't have 'twists' it has a formula that doesn't change and it adds new fighters with every iteration. You judging it alongside other franchises which need to pull obscure gimmicks to stay relevant shows you haven't paid enough attention to call it 'lame'.

[skidcrow]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>
And Smash doesn't have 'twists' it has a formula that doesn't change and it adds new fighters with every iteration. You judging it alongside other franchises which need to pull obscure gimmicks to stay relevant shows you haven't paid enough attention to call it 'lame'.

@Dynamo Frokane

You judging other franchises for actually mildly developing their formula to "stay relevant" when all Smash does is stay the exact fucking same and add new characters to cash in on nostalgia/hype shows you haven't paid enough attention to defend it.

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

You judging other franchises for actually mildly developing their formula to "stay relevant" when all Smash does is stay the exact fucking same and add new characters to cash in on nostalgia/hype shows you haven't paid enough attention to defend it.

@Mara

Which other franchises am I judging exactly? Do you have examples or are you talking out of your ass again?

Maybe if something isn't broke don't fix it. Seems to work for Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead Or Alive and Mortal Kombat. What is your suggestion of major change to make Smash 'better'? Tag Mode? Clothing Damage?

[skidcrow]

<Snipped quote by Mara>

Which other franchises am I judging exactly? Do you have examples or are you talking out of your ass again?

@Dynamo Frokane

Hahaha are you kidding me? It was literally your own words.

You judging it alongside other franchises which need to pull obscure gimmicks to stay relevant shows you haven't paid enough attention to call it 'lame'.

You should get that early onset dementia checked out, it can really fuck up your life.

Maybe if something isn't broke don't fix it. Seems to work for Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead Or Alive and Mortal Kombat. What is your suggestion of major change to make Smash 'better'? Tag Mode? Clothing Damage?

@Dynamo Frokane

If you can't think of any way to evolve your franchise or change up the formula then that's probably the time to stop making that franchise.

[Dolerman]

Hahaha are you kidding me? It was literally your own words.

@Mara

I literally mentioned smash and nothing else. I take it you don't have any examples, or that dementia quote was projection on your end.

If you can't think of any way to evolve your franchise or change up the formula then that's probably the time to stop making that franchise.

@Mara

Do you apply the same rules for Tekken, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, or Virtua Fighter or are you going to casually ignore these comparisons?

[skidcrow]

<Snipped quote by Mara>

I literally mentioned smash and nothing else. I take it you don't have any examples, or that dementia quote was projection on your end.

@Dynamo Frokane

I literally showed you where you mentioned other franchises. You don't have to provide specifics to mention something.

Do you apply the same rules for Tekken, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, or Virtua Fighter or are you going to casually ignore these comparisons?

@Dynamo Frokane

Again with the specifics. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I was referring to all those franchises. Sorry I don't want to type out the exact same response 5 times. You also never mentioned Virtua Fighter and I don't even know what that is. Miss me with that gay shit.

[Dolerman]

Miss me with that gay shit.

@Mara

So you're not purchasing the last of us 2?

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

I literally showed you where you mentioned other franchises. You don't have to provide specifics to mention something.

Again with the specifics. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I was referring to all those franchises. Sorry I don't want to type out the exact same response 5 times.

@Mara

So you're literally just saying 'games should change it up'. But giving no examples of what should be changed for improvement on well established fighting game franchises that no one seems to have a problem with. Please never become a developer.

Maybe we should make Fallout into a JRPG with dancing minigames. You know, just to keep things fresh.

[skidcrow]

<Snipped quote by Mara>

So you're not purchasing the last of us 2?

@Dynamo Frokane

god damn lesbians taking over everything BOYCOTT TLOU2 #notmyEllie

<Snipped quote by Mara>

So you're literally just saying 'games should change it up'. But giving no examples of what should be changed for improvement on well established fighting game franchises that no one seems to have a problem with.

I'm not gonna waste brain energy on thinking of ways to improve fighting games I have no real interest in just for it to be disregarded because "muh Smash".

Please never become a developer.

Too bad. I start tech school in September. You probably won't like anything I put out because there won't be scantily clad anime girls that want you to take their clothes off by matching fruit.

Maybe we should make Fallout into a JRPG with dancing minigames. You know, just to keep things fresh.

Sounds good, you should pitch that to Todd Howard. Maybe make it a Fallout 76 expansion.

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

And Smash doesn't have 'twists' it has a formula that doesn't change and it adds new fighters with every iteration. You judging it alongside other franchises which need to pull obscure gimmicks to stay relevant shows you haven't paid enough attention to call it 'lame'.

@Dynamo Frokane

Hey, I don't know if you've heard but there's this thing where people can judge something on its own merits without having to drag other franchises into it. Smash being lame has nothing to do with 'other franchises pulling obscure gimmicks' (whatever the fuck that even means) and everything to do with it being four, soon to be five, games where the only substantial addition has been which Pokemon come out of the balls or which obscure character comes out of a trophy.

Maybe if something isn't broke don't fix it. Seems to work for Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead Or Alive and Mortal Kombat. What is your suggestion of major change to make Smash 'better'? Tag Mode? Clothing Damage?

@Dynamo Frokane

lol if you think Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, and Mortal Kombat don't iterate and improve or evolve the gameplay and Smash does. The big innovation for Smash Unlimited is literally "The air dodge moves you back now and in one on one fights we have gimmicky slow motion because otherwise our 'fighting game' still feels like kids playing pretend with toys"

So you're literally just saying 'games should change it up'. But giving no examples of what should be changed for improvement on well established fighting game franchises that no one seems to have a problem with. Please never become a developer.

@Dynamo Frokane

Why do you constantly do this whole "YEAH BUT THOSE OTHER GAMES!" as if that somehow absolves the one you like from criticism. You keep harping on examples when you've provided no reasons why Smash isn't guilty as well. What makes Smash better than other games that you incorrectly accuse of being the same thing. Smash is so desperate to be seen as a legitimate fighting game but it's swimming in the kiddie pool.

Maybe we should make Fallout into a JRPG with dancing minigames. You know, just to keep things fresh.

Hell yeah, let's try to make a point then fall on our face trying to reach for it!

[Dolerman]

@Fabricant451

Yeah yeah, give me some functional ways in which Tekken and Soul Calibur have changed and innovated over the years. I'd love to hear them. Apart from adding super moves and characters because Smash has done that too.

Funny how you grand stand about judging a game on its own merits but make zero actual points about what the franchise is doing wrong and how it can improve. What standard does it fail on exactly? Being a Mascot Party Fighter filled to the brim with fanservice?

Why do you constantly do this whole "YEAH BUT THOSE OTHER GAMES!" as if that somehow absolves the one you like from criticism. You keep harping on examples when you've provided no reasons why Smash isn't guilty as well. What makes Smash better than other games that you incorrectly accuse of being the same thing. Smash is so desperate to be seen as a legitimate fighting game but it's swimming in the kiddie pool.

@Fabricant451

Guilty of fucking WHAT?

Not being a game fabricant likes? Jesus christ you could fill a police state with games guilty of that.

Fighting games rarely innovate. They add characters and moves, if there is some Fabricant and Mara secret to making amazing games in that genre I'd love to hear them. If not then shut the fuck up.

Smash is LITERALLY doing the opposite of being seen as legitimate fighting game, with direct quotes from the developers about how it was always supposed to be a party game and not alienate the casual crowd. And since when is game's worth based on it's standing in the competitive scene? You already consider Virtua Fighter to be high quality fighting game, how popular is it on the competitive scene right now? (or ever).

I'm not gonna waste brain energy on thinking of ways to improve fighting games I have no real interest in just for it to be disregarded because "muh Smash".

@Mara

Yeah saying a game should 'innovate' in the broadest possible sense when you have no idea what that innovation should be is a waste of brain energy, we can agree there.

Too bad. I start tech school in September. You probably won't like anything I put out because there won't be scantily clad anime girls that want you to take their clothes off by matching fruit.

@Mara

Yeah it is a shame, I guess I'll have to make do with your isometric cyberpunk 'Retraux' RPG where the edgy white protaganist says nigga along with the crappy low-fi hip hop soundtrack. Cant wait.

[skidcrow]

Fighting games rarely innovate. They add characters and moves, if there is some Fabricant and Mara secret to making amazing games in that genre I'd love to hear them. If not then shut the fuck up.

@Dynamo Frokane

Hahahaha, oh man. You got me. I thought you were being serious this whole time.

[Majoraa]

Again, no love for Cuphead: The D.L.C.

[Fabricant451]

@Fabricant451

Yeah yeah, give me some functional ways in which Tekken and Soul Calibur have changed and innovated over the years. I'd love to hear them. Apart from adding super moves and characters because Smash has done that too.

@Dynamo Frokane

Tekken literally innovated the 3D tag genre which also came with the combo tag mechanic that let you tag in the middle of combos to keep them going into new combos. DoA2 brought the notion of tag chemistry to the mix to innovate on top of that. Tekken 7 literally added new mechanics - and if you think it's just 'super moves' then congrats on not knowing what you're talking about. That's not even getting into the balance changes, new/different functions, characters don't just come to the game with the exact same moves. Unlike Smash Brothers where the demo literally showed that most characters change comes in their supers or their graphical detail. Tekken 7 also implements meter characters for the first time, making typically 2D mechanics work in the 3D environment, and they changed the way air combos work with the Screw Attack aspect. Tekken 3 literally third axis motion which went on to become a core mechanic of the series.

Soul Calibur, by virtue of being developed in the same company as Tekken, is also a series that evolves its gameplay while also playing and feeling different as a 3D fighter. SC6 is adding reversals and parries to it, which is innovating upon and expanding the Guard Impacts. SC 5 added the Quick Step which allowed faster sidestepping and less reliance on the 8 way run, which SC was also the innovator of. There's a reason those two franchises are kind of the staple of 3D fighters, because they innovated the wheel and continued to improve upon and build upon the systems.

Funny how you grand stand about judging a game on its own merits but make zero actual points about what the franchise is doing wrong and how it can improve. What standard does it fail on exactly? Being a Mascot Party Fighter filled to the brim with fanservice?

Smash Brothers won't ever improve because that's not what the series is about. It's not trying to be a serious fighting game despite the whinging from its community who only ever want the game to be as close to Melee as humanly possible. The most 'fundamental' changes are determined based on outside information; Mario throws Cappy instead of a cape, Link's bombs are remote, and if you think that's on any level similar to literally adding new mechanics then you're crazy. Smash Brothers Brawl's biggest change was 'sometimes characters just randomly trip and fall'. Smash Brothers is like the Mario Party of 'fighting games'. Inputs are the same. Animations are the same. The change to characters is in what comes out after the Smash Orb. It's a stale franchise that deals in nostalgia rather than any meaningful change in dynamic or mechanic.

What is the franchise doing right that it gets away with literally selling you the same game but this one has fucking Ridley in it.

Guilty of fucking WHAT?

Guilty of being stale, which you accuse better games of being despite Smash being staler than day old bread. Your entire argument is "WELL THESE OTHER GAMES DON'T INNOVATE SO SMASH DOESN'T HAVE TO EITHER!" when that's just blatantly untrue. So I ask you: What has Smash done to evolve the game in a meaningful way? Tripping? Smash players want the game to be taken seriously as a fighting game but it won't ever be with all the nothing it adds to the actual fighting mechanics, such as they are.

Not being a game fabricant likes? Jesus christ you could fill a police state with games guilty of that.

Oh yeah because you're just Mr. Loves Video Games over here.

Fighting games rarely innovate.

Oh, you're serious.

Oh okay.

They add characters and moves, if there is some Fabricant and Mara secret to making amazing games in that genre I'd love to hear them. If not then shut the fuck up.

I've got a secret: Don't make them like fucking Smash Brothers. Worked out well for Playstation All Stars.

Smash is LITERALLY doing the opposite of being seen as legitimate fighting game, with direct quotes from the developers about how it was always supposed to be a party game and not alienate the casual crowd.

Yeah that's why they added Omega stages and the community bitched until Evo threw them bones because it got them money.

And since when is game's worth based on it's standing in the competitive scene? You already consider Virtua Fighter to be high quality fighting game, how popular is it on the competitive scene right now? (or ever).

About as popular as any other dead franchise. VF5 was at EVO. It was absolutely popular in its time. Virtua Fighter 4 before that. If they ever made a VF6 it would be popular. Virtua Fighter is also quite niche. Given the nature of fighting games you'd have to be on some kind of other level of thought if you think a game's standing in the competitive scene doesn't play a factor in its popularity. Otherwise Marvel Infinite would still be relevant. Fighting games are not made for the casual audience first, outside of Netherrealm games and SFV. Smash is the ultimate casual friendly game and as a fighting game it is fucking lame. As a party game it's whatever, it's better than Mario Party. But Smash is a fighting game.

Smash wants to be taken seriously as a fighting game, it's subject to the same scrutiny as any serious fighting game.

Yeah it is a shame, I guess I'll have to make do with your isometric cyberpunk 'Retraux' RPG where the edgy white protaganist says nigga along with the crappy low-fi hip hop soundtrack. Cant wait.

Throw some anime tits in there and you'll probably lap it up.

[Dolerman]

@Fabricant451 Im not quote cutting your text wall.

But you have done a great job of telling me what SC and Tekken have innovated on inception. The 3D fighter. Yep they did.

Now Tekken has had 7 iterations not counting the spin offs and SC has had 5. With all those sequels youve given a grand total of 5 innovations between them. And this is a series that has been around for far longer than Smash Bros.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty mechanics of Tekken and straight up ignore, the air dodge, spot dodging, power shielding, short hopping, wavedashing, moonwalking, meteor smash, sweet spotting, chain grabbing and about a million other fine tuned innovations to the games which you just refuse to acknowledge then this is not a conversation. Moves are upgraded, nerfed, buffed, different frame data and priority not only with every update but with every game. Reducing it down to 'Mario throws a cappy instead of a Cape based on the FIRST gameplay trailer ive game neing relased 6 months from now' being the only change is ridiculous.

Also smash brothers is literally its own Genre, you cant suck Tekken's dick for innovating 3D and just causally ignore the inception of the mascot brawler which was shamelessly ripped off by games like Digimon Rumble Arena and Playstation All Stars.

Smash is its own genre, its a party mascot brawler that doesnt fit neatly into your simplified understanding of games. It has fighting mechanics and party mechanics. Its a game that has fighting in it that doesnt fit for a hyper competetive scene because its built to be a multiplayer with item pick ups and pseudo platforming. You dont see the One Piece or Naruto games at EVO either even though they have fighting game mechanics.

Throw some anime tits in there and you'll probably lap it up.

@Fabricant451

What you mean like those oversized anime tits in that game Starless you like where those maids shit and piss on each other? You might be projecting a little here.