Cyclone

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

Re: portfolio restrictions, my only caveat is that an action should be available to a god if it helps the story, which means super heavy might multipliers and the sorts would need a lot of case-by-case balancing. im perfectly okay with it being more advantageous to talk to the relevant god. just, nobody likes adjusting their stories to be able to hold up to months of posts with no advancement to their planned plotline, or just giving them up because they REQUIRE an inactive god to be around or the might cost is way too high to justify for a single plotline.

at the same time, i feel as though gods should still retain fine control over their most immediate surroundings. i didnt notice much abuse of this, and it permitted for more varied plots. nobody's gonna be hurt if a God conjures up a rainstorm in a few miles' radius.

i dont think the rules should be purely based around least abusable - it should be based around most interesting and fun imo, as i think we can usually self-police the rp just fine.

@WrongEndoftheRainbow

P.S.S.S: On the topic of removing fine control over the immediate surrounding of the Gods, I think we should keep it as it is. We could probably make the radius of their control smaller, maybe by half of what it is, but removing it entirely would be no fun. Of course, if you want to do some majestic weather stuff, you'd have to use a lotta might or lick the weather God's shoes. And, if we're gonna put this on Advanced, i don't think we have to worry too much about power-players and stuff. Not that we need to elsewhere, as we have gotten really good at discerning who would be a good player from the applicants we get.

@Frettzo

You guys are getting the wrong idea. The point of nerfing the gods isn't at all to prevent metagaming or powerplaying or abuse. Removing these powers from the baseline things that every god can do from the start has numerous benefits:

1. It allows for progression of the sort that Capy has been going on about. Lacking the ability to teleport or travel quickly opens up the possibility to constructing a Bifrost, or a network of tunnels that lead everywhere (cool idea for someone's Sphere, btw). Similarly you could invest MP into creating an accoutrement of some sort that enhances your god's power, and so on. Whih leads into...

2. It encourages more interaction, both as gods seek out one another for help and as gods potentially try to fight over these Bifrost-esque magical sites or these fantastic artifacts that grant powers. Or even over Portfolios themselves!

3. It makes the different gods feel more unique. If everybody can make it rain over their head, that really knocks the wind out of the rain god always bringing rain where he goes or the god of darkness scaring away the very light as he creeps around. If you want to make it rain around you then you still could, provided you either pay a few MP right then and there or make some sort of artifact to enable it.

@Double Capybara

I like and agree with much of what you said there, except for what I'm about to outline below.

I would like to reiterate my idea of Age-specific might discounts. Creating a chain of mountains on Galbar should be like, one might in the age of creation, even if you are not a mountain god, but creating a single tall mountain in the age of steady civilizations costs more might than the chain of mountains did in the past.

Now... if those civilizations were to collapse and a dark age to start, mountains would be cheaper again, wink.

The issue with this approach is that it requires readjustment of the "price stickers" on every single item in the MP store, every single Age. I think that the same effect can be achieved by simply giving everyone a substantial piggy bank of Free Points* for the Age that can only be spent on the Age-specific things. If we want more mountains during the Age of Creation, instead of making mountains cheaper we can just hand out more Free Points.

*The idea of this MP that's set aside every Age for Age-related things made my mind stray back to our current system that gives out 1 FP every turn. Since the FP has been decided to basically just be 0.25MP, it's not at all significant. Its efects are more or less overshadowed by how Portfolios can grant free actions. I had decided that I was going to just remove Free Points from the new Divinus, but then I realized that it makes sense to call the special piggybank of Age-specific MP...Free Points.

As I imagine it, the new Free Points should have mechanics along these lines:

1. A FP is equal in power to a MP, however it can only be spent on things related to the current Age.

2. Everybody will receive the same amount of FP every Turn in addition to their usual MP income, however this amount is variable and depends on the Age that we're in.

3. Your FP certainly does not carry over between Ages, and perhaps not even between Turns within the same Age. The point of passing out a bunch of FP each Age is first to define the scope of changes that we want to see, so you might well get 10FP on Turn 1 to make all sorts of mountains and oceans, but I don't want someone to save half their FP every turn and then suddenly unleash it all on making a super-city come Turn 5 or 6. And the second point of FP is to encourage actions related to the current theme, which again demands that the FP be a temporary (and somewhat optional) offer.

4. Spending FP does contribute to you building up enough actions related to a certain idea to adopt said idea as a Portfolio, however they contribute at half(?) the amoun that spending true MP does. In effect this ensures that throwing around your actual MP (a more significant display of dedication, I'd say) will still quickly let you adopt a Portfolio, but that FP can get the ball rolling. It seems thematic for gods to start adopting Portfolios relating to metalworking, crafting, etc. during the Age of Bronze, when metalworking starts to become a big thing and everyone has lots of FP to spend on things related to bronze and metalworking.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

I have a mechanical effect to suggest: bonus Might which is specifically to be spent on things pertaining to the Age. We still give out enough Might for players to do what they want to do, but they have extra to do what the GMs want them to do too. In-game, it is easier to make things which fit in with the current state of the world, which is mechanically reflected by not consuming the Might you would use for other tasks.

@BBeast

I'd teased the idea of certain restrictions (e.g. my proposed Ages of Monsters/Myth opening the possibility of heroes, implying those wouldn't have been a thing in the prior Age of Creation) but perhaps it's better to use this softer approach of backing the Age's thematic recommendation by setting aside a certain amount of MP that is only usable for the Age's broad topics. At least for some of the earlier Ages, anyways. If there comes to be something like an Age of Conquest or Age of Steel, perhaps we can expand the range of what this extra MP can go towards so as to be inclusive to the gods that don't directly hand out metalworking and better weapons.

As for the Age of Creation, I'd suggest that this Age is a perfect time for populating the world with (mundane) flora and fauna, under the caveat that the terrain would likely still shift around (so it would indeed be safest to wait until the end of that Age to create life if they rely on particular habitats). We want there to be a full global ecosystem before we start trying to add monsters and civilisations.

Seems reasonable, but that does considerably widen the scope of what's going to be happening on the first few turns. With everyone's immediate focus split between spending MP on doing things to their Spheres, sculpting Galbar, and now making basic life, I'd expect that we'd get a wide but shallow series of actions. Significant fractions of Galbar might remain empty and untouched. *

Perhaps this could be solved by extending the Age of Creation or frontloading even more MP into it, but part of me still thinks that it's a good idea to devote at least the first turn solely to sculpting Galbar and the Spheres.

* On the topic of empty space, I think it was probably a mistake to have Mk. 2's Galbar start as entirely land and then have some inland seas added. Godspeed sorta had Galbar start with some amount of predefined oceans and landmasses, IIRC, but that seemed like a simplification that takes out some of the uniqueness and interaction that could've come. This time I'm thinking that Galbar should start as mostly ocean with perhaps a few small rocky islands, more in line with Divinus Mk. 1. This also brings up the question of whether basic things like a sun, moon, and atmosphere should be initially present. Of course, perhaps it makes sense to see what sort of gods we're dealing with before making such a decision; if we something like a god of stone or earth then it makes sense to let that guy flex his powers by raising a bunch of continents. But if there's no fire god or sun god to make the sun, we should probably start with a sun anyways and just say that the Architect had the foresight to make such a thing.

Re: Re: Power level

I would caution against restricting gods to only be able to make things pertaining to their Portfolios, as this would remove this freedom and make it difficult to diversify to new Portfolios.

Perhaps you're right. Heavy portfolio restriction also contributes to 'monopolies' which become problematic should the monopolizing god be inactive, and which people seem to very much dislike OOC. Maybe we should once again look to a softer approach. Portfolio-related actions could perhaps be made free in nearly all situations, Cluster-related actions treated similarly to how we currently evaluate MP costs, and the baseline for the MP cost of all actions significantly raised. This would provide a soft monopoly, as you would be very much encouraged to ask for help from a god with a relevant Portfolio since the alternative might be to spend 3 or 4MP on doing something that's rather basic by our Mk. 2 standards.

In general your three points have captured the broad strokes of it, as I imagine things. This is a really important topic so I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on all of this, though.
Ideas for specific limitations would also be nice to toss about. Capy sort of got the ball rolling a while ago with this,

Gods can see pretty well up to the horizon line, like an eagle.

So if we accept that gods can see all the way to the horizon and perceive their surroundings in great detail, exist independent of any worship or worshipers, are immune to the effects of mundane diseases and aging and hunger, are all but immune to the sort of physical and magical harm that could be inflicted by mortals, can travel through the Spheres, and can create nearly anything given sufficient time/energy (MP) and motivation, what sort of limits should we actually impose?

I think a good start would be to remove the innate ability for all gods to manipulate and control the weather in their vicinity for free. That seems like something best relegated to gods with the pertinent portfolios, or gods willing to crack open their wallets bigtime for some one-time magical effects.

It seems we also are all in favor of removing the teleportation and rapid travel capacities of most demigods and gods.

What else?

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

Ninja'd by BBeast!

But we should still think about how players can direct what the next Age will be. If we go 'you can only do things within the confines of the current Age', then no in-world actions shape the course of history and we'll be stuck in the same Age forever; that or GM fiat decides the course of history, which runs against the grain of Divinus. If we go 'you can do whatever and that will decide what the next Age is', then the concept of Ages becomes meaningless. So what is the mechanical effect of Ages?

@BBeast

Well mind you that the Ages were also envisioned as having rough timescales, either in terms of turns or in terms of IC years. Whatever happens, the first Age will have to be the Age of Creation, so let's use that as an example. I'll say upfront on the OOC something along of the lines of 'this Age will last for Turns 1-2, that the general theme will be shaping the land and that the creation of life is not the focus and should only come towards the end, and that everyone will get X amount of base MP per turn during this Age'.

Then as we come close to Turn 3, we can discuss OOC what we'd like to do in the next Age, potentially as well as things like a timeskip. Personally I like the idea of an Age of Monsters where the primordial demons and giants and dragons come into existence, and so assuming that this idea is popular with others, we could then decide to have Turn 3 be the Age of Monsters. Creation of heroes and life would be opened, and around now I think we'd get into the part where IC actions can perhaps play as much as role in deciding the next Age as OOC desires.

Permitting Portfolios to be traded (both willingly or under duress) seems like a good idea.

Alright, let's add that to the list of concepts that we've ironed out and that I've become sold on.

Re: Abilities

In Mk 2, we have used levels to represent the general power level of a god and the extent of their abilities. Portfolios provide dominion over particular themes for their creative powers but are generally only tangentially related to their personal abilities. As such, if we are doing away with levels, it makes sense to replace it with acquiring special abilities using Might.

We would still require a standard set of abilities for all gods. I would lean towards more power rather than less, since Divinus gods are meant to be powerful. We can take some of the most powerful standard abilities from Mk 2 and make them suggestions for purchasable abilities. We also need to consider the power level of these abilities. If we make default gods too weak, then everyone will be spending all their Might on levelling up rather than creating things. If we make the acquirable abilities too weak, then gods in general will be too weak. If we make acquirable abilities too strong, then it could get unbalanced.

Although, perhaps Godspeed's model for Hero Items and Divine Items can be extended to abilities in general, whether they be tied to an object or an innate part of an individual. The vague power outlines given for divine objects seems to work reasonably well, so we can use that system. This also removes the complexity of building a whole new system.

Perhaps you're responding to my post from 10 minutes ago even as I write this. I'll give you a chance to react to it

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

You guys might remember that when we were discussing mechanics for Godspeed, I advocated for extreme nerfs to the gods. Like, restricting their powers almost entirely to things within their portfolios. I seem to remember that being an unpopular idea, and a few voices said that at that point we'd be dealing with a superhero RP instead of a god one.

Point being, I'm fine with a widespread cutback in the power level of gods; I'm just surprised there seems to be so much support for it now.

I previously mentioned offhand that a potential definition of a 'divine being' would be one that possesses the capacity to travel between the Spheres (although depending on the destination and starting point, this might well be an arduous and long task and not a manner of teleportation). This ties in nicely with BBeast's idea to have our new concept of 'demigods' or 'young gods' restricted to Galbar until they can earn access to another Sphere either through their own narrative and/or the help of a sponsoring god. In light of those two ideas, I think we can toss out my earlier mention about it perhaps being interesting to make it possible for gods to attune themselves to Galbar's sphere itself and run around among the mortals like Thor; perhaps if someone explicitly wants to create a character around it then they could have an exception, but by and large it just makes so much more sense for every god to have their own Sphere separate from Galbar and all others.

Anyways, I got a bit sidetracked there. The point was that gods should be able to somehow travel between Spheres. Maybe they use some special bridge like the Bifrost, with the permission of the Architect or some other god that chooses to take on a gatekeeper role. Or maybe they just slowly fly up to the Spheres above and/or jump down great abysses that lead into the ones below; either way it wouldn't quite be teleportation of the magnitude that we have here.

So what do you guys think about implementing largescale general nerfs like Capy and Rainbow have suggested, with Portfolios and/or Clusters potentially offering means for a few gods to do things like the ones in Mk 2 do. I'm thinking that a god of (Wind)(Flight)(Birds) might well have a Cluster like 'Travel' that would allow them to rapidly move around the universe, and maybe true teleportation could be achieved if a god took a Portfolio for it, but the point is that most would not innately be able to travel at such speeds or teleport.

That's just innate powers, though; I do like Capy's idea of being a lot more lenient when it comes to powers granted by artifacts or magical sites that a god creates. Lots of gods had accoutrements that granted them their powers, and it'd be an interesting theme to bring here as well.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

I've taken a while to ruminate all of your feedback, BBeast. It's much appreciated.

I like the idea of Ages. The time window in Mk2 was a jury-rigged solution which was tacked on, although it has stopped people from getting too carried away and running off centuries ahead of everyone else. Implementing it from the start and giving it more mechanical and narrative weight should make it work better.

As for how it should work with technology, I have some thoughts. Ages describe what the general state of the world is, including the general level of technology which is widely available. However, we must consider how to determine what the next Age will be. The Ages should be able to be driven by player choices as with every other aspect of world-building in Divinus. Thus I propose this: Gods can spend Might to develop and share technologies (and social constructs) which are one step more advanced than the current Age...

@BBeast

This initially sounds good, but I can foresee issues with defining the "steps" as you call them. Sure, it's easy to see that working iron is more than one step ahead of a Stone Age, but what are the intermediaries? Just bronzeworking? Why shouldn't copperworking come before even that? And why is alchemy inherently something more advanced? This all gets even more confusing when we try to restrict magic and social constructs by defining them by this arbitrary notion of "steps". Where would democracy fit in since it was a thing in Greece for a while but then it essentially disappeared for another 1000+ years?

Additionally, this system very likely guarantees that the progression and development of Galbar would go almost identically to Earth's. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, I'm partial to leaving open the chance of something more unusual coming to pass due to IC events.

So whereas I originally envisioned these Ages as being characterized predominantly by theme and timescale (Age of Creation, Age of Monsters, Age of Conquest, etc.), you seem to be pushing more toward categorizing them by technological/magical development (essentially 'power level') and I don't see much advantage to doing so. Envisioning the various steps seems like a lot complication for questionable benefit. Now that I think about it, it'd also make it really hard to work out how we could have a Dark Age or something of the sort, and a period of collapse and regression does sound interesting to me.

...A new god/demigod introduced part way through the RP would not have a Sphere to call their own. A demigod would have the creative powers of a god, but not necessarily at the same strength, and they would not gain the benefits of Spheres or the ability to freely travel between Spheres. The mark of ascension to full godhood would be creating or binding to a Sphere. But they can only do this if the Architect of the Spheres, or maybe some of the existing gods, grant them this privilege. The demigod must prove themselves down on Galbar. On the meta level, if the player shows that they can play nice, we let their character ascend (picking either a suitable god or the Architect to sponsor them in-character). We could make the standard probationary period about one Turn- too long and they might get bored; too short and the character's entrance would be jarring (one Turn is just a suggestion and could need tweaking. Maybe two could be better. It depends on how the RP paces). The player may elect to stay a demigod for longer if they wish, but the option for them to ascend would be there. The process of appeasing potential divine sponsors (and gaining favours from demigods) would also add an interesting layer to the pantheon politics.

I like this quite a bit. As far as adopting Portfolios, I'll have to fine-tune the numbers but I'm mostly of the opinion that a limited MP should prevent them from being snatched up too quickly. Though superseding Domains with the new concept of Spheres might make it easy for some to grab up a diverse range of Portfolios and leave us with most of the interesting ones quickly gone, I think that the idea of Clusters might discourage that. Also, I'm considering adding a mechanic that allows gods to fight over Portfolios and potentially steal them. Greek mythology in particular is fraught with examples of gods that usurped the powers of others.

As for hot-spots, I believe these will develop naturally so we have no reason to codify such a concept.

Yeah you're probably right.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

Well, guess who has involuntarily brainstormed a new god while they should be sleeping so they woke up 11 AM?

Guess I will be participating of this game.

@Double Capybara

Also, did I ninja you? Well, in either case, I take it that you're essentially in favor of the Ages.

Also, kinda divide organization and tech so making a wide and tech advanced empire costs more than making a large tribe or an Atlantis like small island.

Well, ideally we wouldn't just airdrop nations and tech down onto the planet even with the use of a pile of MP. I think it'd be a lot more fulfilling if the creation of some kingdom/foundation of Atlantis/development of metalworking was a slow thing that spanned at least a few posts, and preferably involved more than one god.

- Political Organization and Technology are cheaper to create closer to already established lands.
- We are playing gods not nations, again, more than one god should get involved in the life of citizens of these lands. Furthermore, a land only blessed by one god, or that worships one god and persecutes follows of others should be harder to maintain by virtue of the fact they are pissing off the people who can send plages, floods, fire, giants, whatever their way.
- Create a hotspot(s) area(s) like China, the Mediterranean, Mesoamerica and kinda say to players "focus more on here than any other land, even if you helping out tribes in other lands is fine"

I agree entirely with point 1 and quite like the idea of point 3. I more or less agree with you on point 2 as well, with the caveat that if someone really wants to have a somewhat insular civilization they could accomplish it by having some people dwelling within their god's Sphere. Even then, by design the Spheres aren't nearly as inaccessible as our current notion of private planes, so we'll hopefully avoid the creation of something quite as insular as Arcon.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Vec
Merry Christmas back to you! Winter's touch is staved off by your kind words.

I think we should all take this time, spend Christmas with our loved ones or however you'd like, and then come back reinvigorated and ready for whatever lies ahead.

Pah, in my case I say that there's no rest for the wicked. Over the next ten or so days I need to iron out the thoughts swirling around in my head and commit to writing some semblance of the new RP's intro and mechanics.

Currently I'm sold on the ideas of the Spheres (and with it, the tone, theme, and overall 'mood' that I'll try to set) and on the idea of moving all CS stuff onto a wiki. The prestige, MP, leveling/holy site, and timescale things are now standing at the forefront of things to address.

Alright. Rambling time!

I actually found this part to be a tad too gamey for the style we ended up going for. It was thematic to keep technological advancement for Teknall and co, but the arguments we had smacked of avoiding players playing to win the game rather than telling stories. Closely guarded technological advantage is the go-to way to justify steamrolling half a world map in the space of two or three posts. I would propose going about it a different way for next time. I have two ideas:

1. We can keep the technological aesthetic in the hands of the GM and the turns. Rather than civilizations independently discovering things or being bestowed the knowledge by their gods, we can have the setting epoch displayed on the new turn posts, thus dictating what is widespread in the world now. We can start off in the stone age (or the bronze age because that might be more fun tbh) and advance as the turn pace requires. Exceptions can be made for one-off blessings, for example a god bestowing a limited collection of steel weapons for a devoted century of soldiers or something.

2. We pick a technological age for the setting and stick with it. I'm not saying we should make the entirety of Galbar stuck in the feudal age for thousands of years ala Middle Earth, but it may help us stay consistent to what we want to explore.

There are downsides to each here for sure. You can probably tell what the tradeoffs are without me laying them out.

Another problem still present is relative timescale. We had people dealing with mortals and civilizations growing at vastly different paces, which cause the progression of years to come to a massive screeching slowdown in the latter turns of MkII. The stop-gap solution of having a time window in the new turn posts certainly helped, but it didn't make the slow paced stories speed up any. One way to deal with this could be to cram together solutions 1 and 2 above in a way; The opening turns of the game could be reserved for long-term story stuff on the god and civilization level to establish mythology and early creations. As the turns progress, the time window advances less and narrows until its chugging along at a much more mortal pace in a technological age that we don't mind sticking around in for a while. There, we can explore mortal-scale stories and have the godly events happen at a similar pace. If we want to jazz things up, we can vote to do a timeskip of eighty or more years and work with a new era. We could narratively contrive such skips as a temporary period of peace decreed by the Bossman of the Spheres.

@Muttonhawk

I find myself quite opposed to number 2. One of the most fascinating things to explore in these settings are the advancement of civilizations and the inherent struggle between man and nature, technology and progress versus magic and ancient tradition.

Number 1 makes a lot of sense, but the compromise you suggest resonates very well with me. What if I expand your general notion of technological epochs into something even more overarching, perhaps called Ages? I'm thinking that each Age could be perhaps 1-4 turns (unless we decide to have Ages supersede numbered turns altogether!) and have a general theme, a timescale, and a variable amount of MP handed out. For instance, the very first turn or two might be the Age of Creation, then there could be the Age of Myth, Dawn of Civilization, Age of Legend, etc.

Aside from just having cool names and giving me the ability to set timescales ahead of time so that everyone can plan accordingly, I'm thinking it might be interesting to say that the Age of Creation will span ten million years (that's if we want to use geological timescales; it could well be something like fifty days, if we want to be more Biblical) and that all gods get 10MP; however, this MP can't be used to create mortals or level up. And I liked how in Godspeed a holy site was useless unless it had mortal worshipers caring for it, which discourages using the initial 10MP for a holy site. This way, instead of starting with a measly 4MP in keeping with Divinus tradition and using it to level up, everyone will get a relatively hefty chunk so that they can make numerous largescale changes to the surface of Galbar and/or do things with the Sphere of their choice.

The Age of Myth might then span 3 or 4 turns, open up the possibility of creating heroes and life (albeit not civilizations; we're talking dragons and monsters and the sort), and grant a bit less MP.

I think it makes sense to frontload a lot of the MP into earlier turns, since when we have no creations we should be creating a lot of things. As it is, you get loads of MP in later turns once you've already got loads of creations, and that doesn't make much sense because your attention is probably best spent on writing about your preexisting creations more than on just making loads more that don't get developed.

Thoughts on Ages?

Also, I liked that Godspeed discouraged the hording of MP by making it to where you level up by using a certain amount of MP to actually create things, rather than saving up MP to buy the next level. However, the net effect of that was that there was that everybody was always more or less the same level unless they stalled and carried a lot of MP over turns or invested an extraordinary amount into holy sites (which had MP caps to reduce such a thing). So since everybody was always more or less the same level, what was the point of levels? They didn't act as a useful power comparison between gods since everyone was about the same level; I think the only answer for their usefulness was that they helped determine MP income for future turns and gave us thresholds for the points at which gods were permitted to get additional domains and portfolios.

None of that seems necessary; I'm considering the possibility of abolishing god levels altogether. Kill the useless numbers, y'know. Might generation would then be universally determined by the Age, and perhaps it could be further increased on an individual level by holy sites and/or grants from Mr. Architect (read: plot purposes).

Thoughts on levels and MP generation? [@everyone]

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

In other news, if and when we get a new iteration going, you'd best believe I'll be writing epilogues for my characters and creations. I ain't leaving that shit out in the cold.

@Muttonhawk

Ah, but as I was saying before, I've deemed it unnecessary to maintain linearity. In other words, I'm not going to wait for this RP to end before starting the new one (I expect to have something up within a few weeks at the latest) so don't feel as if you'd be abandoning your characters and stories here. I'll still be around here to see things to their end regardless of whatever goes on in the shiny new Divinus.

Since it seems a popular thing to have past installments of Divinus remain canon as previous universes, I'll be very vague about how the universe of the spheres relates to this Galbar's universe or that of Godspeed. In time the gap might be bridged IC.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Frettzo

Good to hear from you again! I'll reiterate what BBeast said, and also go on to actually encourage you to try your hand at creating something new should you make a character for this next iteration that I'm planning. Fear not the unknown!

Your offer of art is much appreciated. I may well take you up on that as well as ask for help from those that made our current wiki to make a new one, but that can probably come in a week or two. In the meantime I'll try to start brewing up a new OP and description of all the mechanics so that we have something more concrete to look at. Perhaps an interest check can come afterward.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

I guess my only concern with Advanced is that many people don't use it a lot, and or are intimidated/afraid of writing lengthy posts. But at the same time, I feel like most rp's in casual could be considered advanced so who knows. As with any Rp I join, my biggest concern is player retention and I hate to see a good thing die out early.

@Lord Zee

My hope is that those on he Advanced section would be more serious about the commitment and less likely to just vanish. I also really want to challenge myself. I've certainly felt a lot less passionate about writing over the past two years, and it's shown. I recently went way back through my post history and read some stuff from 5-6 years ago expecting it to be bad, but my jaw dropped, because I honestly think the stuff I wrote back then was in many ways superior to the chaff I've been churning out recently.

It was this post that sobered me to that opinion, lol

Elysium's sea was unpredictable. The weather oscillated much in these parts; however, more oft than not it was calm. There were on occasion gales of wind that not even the briny clefts could withstand, and tempests that could toss about ships like dice in some sort of game of the gods. Today, however, it was tranquil. The calm waves scintillated with white diamonds of light as they basked in the sun's warmth. Seagulls and herons flew in lazy circles, fat from an overabundance of fish. One could hardly imagine a paradise more serene.

But deep below the waves... that was another world. A thousand fathoms below the waves, all was black. The darkness itself could swallow minnow and whale alike. A thousand fathoms below that, there was a gaping trench. One could descend into that black abyss for hours until he forgot which way was up and which was down, becoming yet another pale skeleton to rest at the bottom. Yes, this trench had a bottom, though few living souls ever saw it. There were vents that spewed out searing oil and vile gases from the bowels of the earth; poisons to most, but food for some. A whole ecosystem had thrived here since the world's first days, tiny microbes that metabolized the gases fed larger, carnivorous creatures, which fed even bigger creatures, and so on. One of these creatures, an albino, eyeless fish, darted into a cave with a mouthful of smaller fish. It had to bring tribute to its master; lest his ire consume all the creatures of the trench.

At the very end of the cave there had once been a door that led to a staircase, one that descended down into the very core of Elysium. There, some great artifact had been stowed away long ago. There had also been a noble guardian that dwelled in this cave, guarding the door. None had ever tried to enter, but if they had, they would no doubt have been driven off by the great, three-eyed giant that the world's creator had left behind.

Now, the door was sealed and hidden, and there was a twisted, depraved creature shackled to the wall by great chains and ancient magic. Balon was his name. He had been commanded to spend an eternity alone in the deeps of the sea, guarding some holy artifact that he had never even seen. For a time, Balon had done as he was told, but the solitude was maddening. The fish down here were dark, spiteful things that hated the light above and those that lived in it. In time, their malice rubbed off on the guardian. When his creator and master left, Balon realized his freedom. Abandoning his post, he climbed up the rocky walls of the trench and clambered up onto the ocean's shores, then went about reaving and murdering.

Entire villages fell before the giant, who could pound a man into the ground just as easily as he could strike him down with a bolt of magical lightning. Those men that he did not kill or devour, he enslaved. For a time, Balon was king of the land, the shore, and the ocean's blackest reaches. He had a great palace built by the sea. He taxed his subjects to the brink of starvation so that he could have a mountain of gold and jewels to call his own. Some tales would have it that he fathered half a hundred monstrous children; the first of the trolls, cyclopes, and other filth that plagued Elysium to this day.

And then the creator returned, enraged to see what had happened in his absence. Balon's great palace fell like a mere sandcastle before nature's onslaught; hurricanes and earthquakes scattered its stones across the whole continent and buried the vaults of gold beneath a thousand tons of rubble and a mile of seawater. Balon was ordered back to his post, and cursed to die if he ever set foot on dry land again. Out of spite and contempt, the giant sought to ruin what he could not have. Within the depths of his sea cave there was a great cauldron. He coerced the marine creatures to bring him all sorts of strange things from all corners of the planet, and then for nearly a decade, he stirred and mixed poisons in his great cauldron. At last, when he deemed his brew ready, he grabbed an eel and tossed it into the cauldron. The black fluid inside rotted the poor creature's flesh and blistered its skin. The writhing, still living creature splashed some of the fluid in one of the giant's three eyes, before dying. The plague nearly killed Balon, but alas, the land was not so lucky. The sickness eventually left the corrupted guardian, although the magic and the toxins lingered. That eye never saw again; and neither did any creature unfortunate enough to be caught by that blind eye's stare, as they were doomed to meet the same fate as the eel.

Balon released the vile fluid into the ocean, and exerted his command over the sea. The currents carried the plague to ports, and men began dying like flies, helpless against the magical disease. Needless to say, the creator was infuriated at this second betrayal, and cursed the treacherous guardian with every ailment he could think of before having him imprisoned at the depths of the world for the rest of time. Balon was wrought with the symptoms of his own disease; he lost sight in yet another of his three eyes, his skin turned black as coal, and his bones and muscles deteriorated to the point that it was a struggle to move; a fight to stay alive.

The fish that darted into the cave at last reached its master. The giant was still a king of the sea, even in chains. He still wore ancient bronze armor, covered in intricate runes and enchantments. At his side was a great spear and a shield; to look at them at remember what he once had hurt Balon almost as much as the curse. The giant was careful not to look at this fish, but not so much out of kindness. The creatures of the trench had been growing more and more rebellious and unruly, seeing that the tyrant wasn't as powerful as in the older days. If this fish died, Balon might very well starve to death with none of the others willing to bring food.

With an unusual amount of ease, Balon reached out with his hand to take the food from the fish's mouth. The ancient chains rattled, and as they did so, something caught Balon's eye: a little speck of rust had formed on his otherwise immaculate shackles. It took a moment to realize what this meant. And then, for the first time in centuries, the giant guffawed. His laughter was a scary thing to hear, even distorted by the water. At last! These chains were immune to rust and impossible to break; being tied to the creator, they would last until the end of time. Or the end of the creator's life, it would seem. With his body strengthening as the chains and magical force field around him weakened, it would seem that the accursed giant had outlived the righteous, arrogant fool that he hated.

Balon looked at his spear and shield. He remembered the thrill of battle, the power he had once wielded, the lands he had conquered. That gave him the strength to break free. With a thunderous sound, the giant pulled so hard that his chains were ripped out of the rock wall. Although they were still attached to his wrists, that was of little matter. Nothing could impede him, nothing would stand between the giant and the freedom that he had reminisced over for so long. The six yard tall giant snatched up his spear and shield, then stood tall. If he were not underwater, Balon would have likely fallen down. His muscles were still weak from the curse, and sitting for a few centuries meant that he almost had no balance; however, that didn't stop him. A few hours later, the bronze-clad sea giant was clambering back onto the shore. The sea was no longer harmonious, by any standards; a horrendous storm had rolled in to herald the old king's return. It felt good to walk on solid land once more.

Young Cyclone

And I think that ties in with what @Double Capybara has said. I used to never really have second thoughts about joining RPs, but it happens all the time now. Most topics just don't draw my passion, writing for them isn't as fun, and the quality of my posts is worse. But if another Divinus RP can't hold my interests then I doubt if anything ever could; I also love this series.

@BBeast You seem to be more or less in support of all that I said on that first descriptive post; that's assuring to me because I hold your opinion in high esteem.

Anyways, after receiving nothing but approval towards the idea of the Spheres as a main theme, I'm now thoroughly sold on it. I'll roll with that as the foundation for the reworked Divinus' mechanics and lore.

Edit 2: Quests should have added bonuses if the god giving the quest is not the same one which gave said hero their heroic status. It should also be possible to set up open quests which any hero can give a go at.

@Double Capybara

We're in complete agreement.

Oh, and for real, keep the holy order/society and hero system of Godspeed, as someone who is using a lot MK2's society and hero system, that one was so much better.

Oh yes; the basis will almost certainly remain the same, I'm just not entirely sold upon the title system that was adopted halfway through. Thoughts on a revert to having hero levels instead of just upgrading titles?

Edit: Oh! And give a wiki to the new game from the start. Or something similar, something better than having to deal with character sheets, which were abandoned in both versions, and then take that extra accessibility and make it recommended to have at least one short sentence explaining what is what on the wiki/whatever for important concepts.

@everyone

Thoughts on using a wikia as the mandatory spot for all sheets, to aid in organization? Our character section for every Divinus has been an absolute mess and Capy might be on to something here.

Edit: Re: the player conflicts that Capy brought up,

I think that can be solved in part by a heavy-handed emphasis on magic and an upfront decision to have most of Galbar's mortals advance somewhat slowly. Perhaps a general nerf on the worth of MP and initial power and influence of gods might also be effective in achieving this; I'd like to make it harder for a god to singlehandedly make their own race and then bestow unto them countless gifts that bring them up to par with the rest of the world. Ideally advancing mortal civilizations would take quite a bit of MP and therefore require longer periods of time or the collaboration of numerous gods.

One solution for that is making early mortals live for 500 years like in the bible, lol

Yup, that's Gerrick for you.