Fabricant451

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

Because Baby Yoda is a member of a mysterious species whom we know very little about, except every example previously seen was a Jedi Master, meaning that it's seems more plausible to believe that manipulating the Force is instinctual to them. Additionally, he's fifty years old and we know nothing of his past. Rey is a human, and the previous human force sensitive protagonists we've seen actually needed to be guided and trained in the Force to be able to use most of their powers.

@Crimson Paladin

Except the only thing we know about Yoda and I guess Yaddle is that they have spent centuries training in the Force. After centuries of training I'd expect anyone to be good at it; it's not like the assumption is "members of this race are naturally good at the Force" (or at least it wasn't) but rather "members of this race are long lived and thus can spend a long time mastering the Force." We didn't see Yoda as a padawan but it's not like he showed up to the Jedi and was like "Good I am in the Force. A Master you must make me."

Rey is a human, yes, but she - like the other protagonists - was chosen by the Force to be the foil to the rising dark side - in this case Kylo Ren. The Force in balance doesn't mean 'the light side defeats the dark side' like the Jedi in the prequels thought, there needs to be light and dark otherwise the Force will do its best to fin the yin to the yang and vice versa. With Luke cutting his connection to the Force, Rey was chosen. "There's been an awakening, have you felt it?" Rey is the perfect foil to Kylo Ren because Kylo Ren is so desperate to be something he isn't based solely on the fact that he's somebody. He's a Skywalker. He's a Solo. His grandfather is Darth Vader and his uncle is Luke Skywalker. Being powerful is his birthright. He believes Anakin's saber is rightfully his just because of his blood, so when this literal actual nobody is who the saber responds to, he's furious because she is, unknowingly, showing him his own failures.

It's pretty established that Force Sensitives unconsciously use the Force to help them out. Anakin was using it to podrace, Ezra was using it in his con artist days. Rey was guided by the Force by Anakin's lightsaber, given a lecture on how to feel the Force by Maz Kanata, told by Han Solo that all the stories about the Jedi and Luke were true, and was able to call out Kylo Ren when he linked their minds, and only then did she use the mind trick which didn't work right away.

If we, as an audience, can buy Luke being able to fly an X-Wing despite barely any comparable flight training, using the Force to guide the torpedoes after a very brief 'training' session, and being able to call his lightsaber to free himself from the wampa without question then I don't think it's too much to ask that someone we are told multiple times in the movie as being strong in the Force (because the Force needed her for balance) being able to use a Jedi Mind Trick on James Bondtrooper.

I'd much more easily believe that a character we're told and shown to be strong in the Force can pull off a mind trick than I can that a baby in a long lived species can just instinctively use the Force to levitate living creatures and heal a man on the verge of death just because the most famous member of his species was a Jedi for 800 years.

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

Why is it fine that Baby Yoda can use the Force without training but when Rey does a mind trick and barely defeats a wounded and emotionally compromised opponent people got really upset.

Also as Star Wars fans aren't people used to disappointment by now. I mean people are fans of a film franchise where only three of the movies are good.

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Kathleen Kennedy can make that happen. She can announce Star Wars: The Birth of Gattaca, and be in a T-shirt saying "The Force Is Female"

@Callousqueen

Kathleen Kennedy isn't the be all, end all for Star Wars, she doesn't own Disney nor does she have final say as to what goes in the movies, she's not some franchise ruining boogeyman. Also that shirt was about Nike shoes and not Star Wars.

Video Games: The General Discussion & Community Thread

Void Bastards is a fun game that I really only want to play in like 45 minute bursts.

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

<Snipped quote by Kuro>

We know the Star Wars universe has the ability to clone people. We also know the clone army was altered to be cloned so they can grow up to be adults twice as fast as the normal practice. If force users live longer than regular people, would you not want your children to live a longer lifespan? Would anyone ask a stupid question to a mother with a newborn this question: Do you want your child to live to be 5 years old or 90 years old? The Star Wars universe does have a wealthy class society, so someone would alter their children to be force users so they can live a longer unnatural lifespan. So you would not have Sith and Jedi, you would have a third class of force users.

@Callousqueen

The Force isn't some Gattaca thing where parents can choose to make their kid Force sensitive or not.

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

I think it is worse, he introduces ideas without explaining how it got there in the first place and how to end them.

We see the final battle, with the Resistance fighting on the hidden Sith planet that Rey discovers for the Resistance. For some reason the Resistance was down to a few ships in the last movie, and getting defeated because they were running out of gas, yes gas. They must have missed the Shell gas station. For some reason, everyone in the galaxy decides to show up with identical ships of the Resistance. They are all fighting at this hidden planet, and than, when the battle was won. The Ewok's look up in the sky and notice this battle going on in orbit of this home moon of Endor. So how do you have the same identical battle going on, with a secret Sith planet and Endor that everyone knows. They can be hundreds of light years away from each other. The victor is done, and everyone enjoys a party on Endor.

Than, we have Rey killing her grandfather, and than Rey dies. She is a dead corpse, and she is just a dead corpse. She is dead like any other human being, no special showing she is dead like a Jedi. Than Ben comes around, and now he has been turned to the good side and he is a Jedi again. He finds Rey, and gives all his force healing to Rey so she can come back to life. Since he gave his entire life force to Rey, Ben dies. Ben is dead, and he fades away like a Jedi.

This is the problem. The last movie was Star Wars: The Last Jedi. When she was dead, she did not fad away like the Jedi do when they die. NO ... she was a corpse. If she is a corpse, than it begs the question if she was a Jedi at the end of this movie. If she was not a Jedi at the end of this movie, than she was not a Jedi during Star Wars The Last Jedi. Well, you can say Luke Skywalker was the last Jedi and he died during the last movie. But oh no, we noticed his twin sister was also a Jedi too. Rey did call her Master, and was having her as her trainer to become a Jedi. So Star Wars The Last Jedi had Luke, his twin sister, and maybe Rey as Jedi so how do you really call it the last?

Please explain!

@Callousqueen

I will explain this section by section.

We see the final battle, with the Resistance fighting on the hidden Sith planet that Rey discovers for the Resistance. For some reason the Resistance was down to a few ships in the last movie, and getting defeated because they were running out of gas, yes gas. They must have missed the Shell gas station. For some reason, everyone in the galaxy decides to show up with identical ships of the Resistance. They are all fighting at this hidden planet, and than, when the battle was won. The Ewok's look up in the sky and notice this battle going on in orbit of this home moon of Endor. So how do you have the same identical battle going on, with a secret Sith planet and Endor that everyone knows. They can be hundreds of light years away from each other. The victor is done, and everyone enjoys a party on Endor.

Ships in Star Wars have always run on fuel, hell planes in the real world we live in require fuel and as far back as A New Hope there are people fueling X-Wings before the Death Star battle. The attack on the Resistance at the start of The Last Jedi happens basically hours after the end of The Force Awakens and the Resistance is basically caught with their pants down. The people arrive at Exegol because Lando uses his sexual charisma to do it; a core part of the previous movie was how the Resistance still had allies but no one was coming to help them before Luke showed up. One would naturally think that in the span between 8 and 9 that allies would show up prior to the end of 9 or else part of 9 would be rallying and recruiting the backup but hey what do I know. If they wanted their Avengers Assemble moment they did it poorly.

As far as Endor and the Ewoks are concerned, it's just references and for the audience to go "I know those!" while being a callback to Return of the Jedi where the galaxy immediately knows the Emperor has been defeated.

Than, we have Rey killing her grandfather, and than Rey dies. She is a dead corpse, and she is just a dead corpse. She is dead like any other human being, no special showing she is dead like a Jedi. Than Ben comes around, and now he has been turned to the good side and he is a Jedi again. He finds Rey, and gives all his force healing to Rey so she can come back to life. Since he gave his entire life force to Rey, Ben dies. Ben is dead, and he fades away like a Jedi.

Not every Jedi dies like that. And we can't even assume they all do because Anakin Skywalker didn't, that we saw, and the ones that died in Order 66 didn't all have such luxuries. Qui-Gon didn't vanish, he lived long enough to have final dying wods in Obi-Wan's arms and then they burned his body at the end of the movie, and then two movies later Qui-Gon is said to be the one to teach Yoda and stuff about the Force Ghost shenanigans. Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Luke were, at the time of their death, fully in tune with the Force and masters in their on right. Rey not vanishing doesn't make her not a Jedi, it makes her grounds for the worst type of redemption arc.

This is the problem. The last movie was Star Wars: The Last Jedi. When she was dead, she did not fad away like the Jedi do when they die. NO ... she was a corpse. If she is a corpse, than it begs the question if she was a Jedi at the end of this movie. If she was not a Jedi at the end of this movie, than she was not a Jedi during Star Wars The Last Jedi. Well, you can say Luke Skywalker was the last Jedi and he died during the last movie. But oh no, we noticed his twin sister was also a Jedi too. Rey did call her Master, and was having her as her trainer to become a Jedi. So Star Wars The Last Jedi had Luke, his twin sister, and maybe Rey as Jedi so how do you really call it the last?

Luke Skywalker, at the end of The Last Jedi, literally says "I will not be the last Jedi." He is, at this point, referring to the fact that Rey will succeed him and, having learned from his failures and the failures of the old Jedi order, would hopefully 'do it right' with the Jedi this time. This is why the villain, who has failed twice now and learned nothing, has lost everything while finally getting the power he so craved and why the girl who had nothing now has everything. Leia was hinted to be Force sensitive as far back as Empire Strikes Back - and don't say that Luke speaking to her in the Force was because they were siblings because they didn't know that yet.

Again, the furious retcons and undo's in TROS just diminishes the previous two movies - let alone the OT and PT. Suddenly Rey's actions weren't her own, suddenly Finn's arc is regressed back to just screaming after Rey, suddenly Anakin's lightsaber is some sacred thing despite Luke not giving a shit about it after losing it on Bespin and using a green one the rest of his life, suddenly Poe has a criminal past with a character who is in the movie just so audiences know that Poe is a not gay, suddenly Luke was 'wrong' despite JJ putting him in that situation in the first place, suddenly the last Star Wars movie in this 9 movie saga is the cinematic equivalent of a video game side quest.

But hey, subscribe to Disney Plus where you can pretend The Mandalorian is excellent programming and not just a vessel for Baby Yoda merch!

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

How they manage to do marvel right but star wars wrong is a mystery...

@Majoras End

Marvel isn't a slave to a trilogy format. Marvel also isn't afraid to introduce new characters and let them have the spotlight while the sequels seemed to have no confidence in letting the new characters have their own stories so everything still had to tie into fucking blood relations because in Star Wars movies everything only happens to the same group of people.

Getting away from the weird reverence of the 'Skywalker Saga' is the best possible move provided they trust their directors to have their own vision and freedom to explore it. Star Wars is a setting full of infinite potential so the need for the new movies to just still be about shit and people we already know, even in the lame anthology movies, is bizarre. I don't want to see Old Han Solo just doing the same things he did in the old movies only now he's slower and older. Incidentally I do want to see a Jedi Master and Hero dealing with his own myth and the failures of his actions and those of his order but I guess some don't.

Point is, what doesn't work about the sequel trilogy isn't the lack of a plan (the originals weren't exactly meticulously planned in advance) but the lack of trust in the audience to care about new characters without the old characters there too. Resetting the universe to just 'Empire vs Rebels 2.0' was creatively bankrupt but at least it gave us three (and a half if you count Poe) interesting characters that we all thought would carry the legacy and tradition of Star Wars without needing validation from the characters we already knew.

Episode 8 at least was willing to pass the torch but then TROS was like "Actually no".

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

It's going to be as irrelevant as the prequel trilogy.

@BrokenPromise

In that case I eagerly await the day people break the sequels down into the same five memes over and and over again and act like the whole time they've just been underappreciated masterpieces of world building and story telling!

Cooking Fantasy maybe?

Battle Chef Brigade owns

A tribute to the former fans of Star Wars

To be fair, Force Healing has been part of canon in the EU (and let's not pretend Disney didn't just pluck things from the EU for the new movies anyway) and the only reason they put out episode 7 of The Mandalorian the day before Episode 9 came out was because Force Healing also plays a factor in that episode.

The Rise of Skywalker is bad but it's bad because JJ Abrams' entire thing is that he likes introducing story ideas but doesn't know how to end them, which is why Episode 9's ending is so hollow and ultimately does a disservice to the characters across the board. It doesn't help that the movie feels so 'written by committee' in a terrible attempt to please everybody rather than letting a director have a voice and vision for the story...which they had with episode 8 like it or not.

Personally the 'canon' of Star Wars is a weird thing to get hung up on because the canon and abilities of Star Wars are constantly changed and enhanced anyway that it becomes people unwilling to accept one thing because it 'breaks canon' despite it just being the same thing the other movies did: introducing new Force Powers or techniques. Star Wars canon had tiers of what was and wasn't 'true' canon so really, Star Wars canon was fucked and the slavish devotion to it having to be one way or no way is pointlessly limited. 'Why can a Force Ghost use lightning?' Because fuck you, their creed ends with 'there is no death; there is the Force' that's why. 'Why can Luke use the Force to jump out of the carbonite chamber?' Because fuck you, that's how the Force works.