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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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@Oddsbod Sorry for the late response (really busy with work and RL), but me and my co-gms enjoy the idea. I just want to know more of his fighting style rather than one ability.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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@Mr Allen J Oki doke, got a sheet draft finally squared away. It's pretty rough, but I think it nails down the bases of who/what this character is.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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@Oddsbod Okay, I extensively discussed Askin with my co-gms (more than ever before, in fact!), and we have shared opinions.

We think Askin is a great character but, we think that his special moves could really use a bit of reworking. My main thing is that they seem more like RPG moves, than attacks you'd see in a fighting game (or even an anime). Even though this RP isn't what you would call the most "anime" or "fighting game" RP in the world, he kind of sticks out compared to the other characters (who fit that theme much better). He has like status debuffs, and healing moves. I'm not saying that everyone has to be a badass karate man, but I kind of want to maintain a certain thematic here. Having moves that heal himself, trap enemies, and illusion moves go against that.

We also agree that his special moves in general are a bit confused and all over the place. His moves don't seem to fit into any kind of thematic tbh, and they don't really convey that he's the chosen one. I just can't see his fighting in action. I also think he's a bit overpowered that he has access to all these moves. He just seems that he has a bit too much. I mean, he can steal attacks, has illusions, status effects, can trap enemies (and restrain them), three projectiles (one even gives him extra mobility), two melee attacks, and has a demon. It would be okay if he had one or two of these, but he has all of them. It doesn't work that his weakness is that "he isn’t a trained fighter" when he has access to a variety of moves that more than make up for it.

All that said and done; I have some idea that could make Askin's fighting style be more in line with the other characters. I think he would be a bit more interesting to see in action if you focused his special techniques around the lamp's ability to copy other people's attacks (Or as you call it, The Imprisoner, and The Unleasher). Since that's probably the one thing that would revolve around a character's kit around in a fighting game. Give him the ability to store a few attacks inside that magic lamp of his, and use them against his opponents. And boom! You have yourself a fighting style not too out of place in a fighting anime, and it fits his chosen one theme much better.

I would just drop the other special techniques. Because, tbh, they're redundant if you focus on copying other attacks, and they don't gel with the thematics of the rp.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Savo
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@Oddsbod

What about having the genie in the lamp fight for him that flows with his copycat abilities? Like, for example the person in the lamp gets pissed that you're shoving and spewing things out of his home. There should be an, erm "meter" that charges up each time he utilizes imprisoner and unleasher. Once it maxes out, he can use the genies moves temporarily before it goes back to being sealed in the lamp.

How does that sound with the thematic? I mean, he does have that genie stuck in the lamp, so instead of using him up forever, why not use him multiple times after charging up to unleash that ability?
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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@Oddsbod Okay, I extensively discussed Askin with my co-gms (more than ever before, in fact!), and we have shared opinions.

We think Askin is a great character but, we think that his special moves could really use a bit of reworking. My main thing is that they seem more like RPG moves, than attacks you'd see in a fighting game (or even an anime). Even though this RP isn't what you would call the most "anime" or "fighting game" RP in the world, he kind of sticks out compared to the other characters (who fit that theme much better). He has like status debuffs, and healing moves. I'm not saying that everyone has to be a badass karate man, but I kind of want to maintain a certain thematic here. Having moves that heal himself, trap enemies, and illusion moves go against that.

We also agree that his special moves in general are a bit confused and all over the place. His moves don't seem to fit into any kind of thematic tbh, and they don't really convey that he's the chosen one. I just can't see his fighting in action. I also think he's a bit overpowered that he has access to all these moves. He just seems that he has a bit too much. I mean, he can steal attacks, has illusions, status effects, can trap enemies (and restrain them), three projectiles (one even gives him extra mobility), two melee attacks, and has a demon. It would be okay if he had one or two of these, but he has all of them. It doesn't work that his weakness is that "he isn’t a trained fighter" when he has access to a variety of moves that more than make up for it.

All that said and done; I have some idea that could make Askin's fighting style be more in line with the other characters. I think he would be a bit more interesting to see in action if you focused his special techniques around the lamp's ability to copy other people's attacks (Or as you call it, The Imprisoner, and The Unleasher). Since that's probably the one thing that would revolve around a character's kit around in a fighting game. Give him the ability to store a few attacks inside that magic lamp of his, and use them against his opponents. And boom! You have yourself a fighting style not too out of place in a fighting anime, and it fits his chosen one theme much better.

I would just drop the other special techniques. Because, tbh, they're redundant if you focus on copying other attacks, and they don't gel with the thematics of the rp.


Mmh, sounds right. Thanks for looking it all over, really appreciate it!

I'll defs try and move some of the focus away from the buff/debuff RPG-ish build, and lower power level. I'm just glad the character himself works out, that was what I'd really enjoyed writing, can't wait to get the chance to start bringing him out. Also naming abilities, that was fun.

Before I get back to fixing it up, I just wanted to double check, is it clear that the special abilities like Winter's Whack and We Were Megadozing are all just stabilized versions of Imprisoner/Unleasher? So they're all just extensions of the single copycat ability, and they're all one time things, and I'd change his sheet over the RPG to reflect what effects he has at his disposal, then maybe say it would take him a whole day to properly seal another attack from someone willing to give him a hand. Like maybe if they end up friends he gets to borrow Otsana's Bloop attack, or Brenda's Stone Spikes, but he only gets to use them once for each time he sealed the attack up. I'd wanted to give him a pretty wide set of effects at the beginning because I imagine he might use them up pretty fast if things get too demanding, and it would take a while to restock. But I know it's a really weird thing to balance, and you'd know better than me if having access to all those things right from the beginning, even just once, could be too much. So yea, just wanted to check if your advice for fixing Askin up is based on the special abilities being one-time things that he can quickly run out of, or if I messed up and made it seem like those abilities are things he can do whenever he wants without running out.

@Oddsbod

What about having the genie in the lamp fight for him that flows with his copycat abilities? Like, for example the person in the lamp gets pissed that you're shoving and spewing things out of his home. There should be an, erm "meter" that charges up each time he utilizes imprisoner and unleasher. Once it maxes out, he can use the genies moves temporarily before it goes back to being sealed in the lamp.

How does that sound with the thematic? I mean, he does have that genie stuck in the lamp, so instead of using him up forever, why not use him multiple times after charging up to unleash that ability?


Yo that's a really cool idea. I wanted the genie to be more of a last resort button for when every other option had run out, and I think only getting to see it once makes it a little cooler, a little more mysterious, but that would be a really cool set up for a charater.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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@Oddsbod I fully understood that prospect, and my concerns are more that his abilities don't really fit the setting (or a theme) than anything (I may have overreacted when I said he was OP, so yeah). That said, I am glad you taken my advice well. You wouldn't believe how many people start to argue, and start spouting dumbshit. lol

You're off to the right start.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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@Oddsbod I fully understood that prospect, and my concerns are more that his abilities don't really fit the setting (or a theme) than anything (I may have overreacted when I said he was OP, so yeah). That said, I am glad you taken my advice well. You wouldn't believe how many people start to argue, and start spouting dumbshit. lol

You're off to the right start.


Lol man I feel, spent a few days last week herding some major sheep with one problem player for an RPG on another forum, the dude just did not want to play the character role he'd chosen and kept trying to introduce totally new worldbuilding details. I'm like entirely only attached at all to his abilities because I got to put my middle school years of reading all those zany Bleach chapters to good use. God-awful writing and pacing, but damn if the author didn't just have the best names for things, and an amazing art style.

If I wanted to keep the setup of having a roster of starter abilities then, I'd probably wanna cut the Megadoze for sure, right? I wanted the dreams more for outside of fighting interaction, thought it might set up some cool scenarios, but if those don't work either I can scrap em, make the other abilities more consistently combat oriented, and then maybe trim down the number of containers to 12. And if that ends up being too weak I can just run with having a token weak character, nothing wrong with that. He can have rad hang-out party sessions with Lucas.

I was hoping the theme of his abilities was less in the abilities themselves, and more in the overarching copycat effect, like, a Chosen One who doesn't have an identity or purpose of his own, and at this point probably never will, and everything he does has to come from more interesting, more powerful people he meets on his travels. But anyways yea I'll start putting together a new draft to work on all the things you'd brought up.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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Anyways, I had the idea for a plot where robots come out of nowhere and attack people not in the tournament for no reason at all!

Weird? Well, such things happen all the time.

Who's in?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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Sounds fun. Will Zenyatta and Will Smith appear at the last minute to teach us the wrong-headedness of our prejudices towards robots, and unite the two species in harmony?

Also, if I manage to crank out a usable sheet before then, would Askin's imprisoning ability be able to bottle away robots? As is, I'd been thinking his bottling wouldn't work on sentient beings with their own inherent ki and individuality, cause their willpower would just overpower the magic that tries to hold them inside the bottle, but I wasn't sure how you'd want that to work for, say, non-sentient robots or machines.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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Also, if I manage to crank out a usable sheet before then, would Askin's imprisoning ability be able to bottle away robots? As is, I'd been thinking his bottling wouldn't work on sentient beings with their own inherent ki and individuality, cause their willpower would just overpower the magic that tries to hold them inside the bottle, but I wasn't sure how you'd want that to work for, say, non-sentient robots or machines.


I guess he could. They're gonna be mook-level, with a few heavy hitters.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Kamen Evie
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I'll get something up tonight. Hopefully in an hour or two.

EDIT: It's up. Also yeah, robots are neat.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Indy Cooper
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Robits is alright. Yen is going to be confused af.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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@Mr Allen J I finished a new draft of Askin's sheet, tried to work on some of the things you'd brought up before. Dropped the number of containers from 15 to 10 as a power limiter, took away one of his debuff effects to. I thought it might actually help to make all his copy abilities one-ofs and vastly different—instead of trying to give him a more concrete identity, hammer home that Askin's identity as a fighter is in his total lack of identity, kinda like a doll. Does this version work better?

Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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@Oddsbod I think he's better now. Only thing is that max amount of special moves is twelve... when he has fifteen. That can be easily fixed as some of his moves (like the Punches, and the Unleasher/Imprisoner) can be condensed into similar moves.

Me and GMs are still discussing him btw.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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Sounds good. I also just marked off all the Imprisoned moves as that, and reorganized them, so the ability section is a bit more clear on which is which.

EDIT: Actually, y'know, let's cut out the genie entirely. Way too strong. Also, just cut the abilities down to twelve.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by KaiserElectric
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@Oddsbod So Allen's the one who has the final say on the character but as Co-GM I wanted to weigh in and let you know what I was thinking.

First of all, I love the character and his backstory, and I think it's a perfect edition to the world we're building here (plus I really like how you play with the Chosen One story here, really clever). That being said, I think his power set would be an issue. Your fighting style suggested that he could copy abilities from opponents and use them as his own (ie Shujinko from Mortal Kombat Deception), but his actual special moves seem to be random abilities that he took from offscreen opponents. It comes across as a bit inconsistent and it's a little confusing trying to work out what exactly you can do.

I don't want to dictate what your character's powers are (because again it's still a great character and inconsistent moveset aside his powers are really cool), but I would suggest streamlining his powers a bit more. Personally I would cut it in half and build my moveset around either his ability to copy his opponents moves or just having a wide variety of different special abilities to draw on. I think the copying powers would be a better choice for this character based on his backstory but again I don't want to dictate how you build him.

Either way, I'm interested to see him in action and I hope the issues can be worked out quickly. :)
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Savo
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@Oddsbod

One, ermagerd, our shortest nomad.

Two, wonder how the past turned out considering no one is living in an autocratic world ruled by magic. Whether you explain it to us or not is all up to you.

Three, your character is weaker than Lucas, our joke chary. It doesn't matter if he has good moves, the fact that he can only use them once leaves him at a large disadvantage against even the most untrained of fighters. I'm not trying to control how your character fights, but honestly, he feels like a one trick pony.

Honestly speaking, give him like some moves that don't have a singular use and can be utilized over and over again to give him some reliable damage output aside from absorbing things and shoving them into the lamp to use at a later time.

Like for the imprisoner/unleasher move, maybe just make them both separate in a sense as make the unleasher be a category amongst a subcategory of moves... sorta like this?

Unleasher: Unleashes one of these six moves stolen from random nomads to harm an opponent with; can only be used once. To refill, imprisoner must be used to absorb other characters moves.
    - Move 1
    - Move 2
    - Move 3
    - Move 4
    - Move 5
    - Move 6

Just a suggestion. Don't know how the other co-gm feel about this one.

Fourth, this is a problem with the super move The Prisoner in the Lamp. It essentially takes a character out of the story. It basically doesn't sound fun at all. I'm ok for sacrificing character development if there is some significant meaning to why they can't develop anymore, like death, them going off on their own separate journey... but this? Idk

That's honestly all I've got to say about this. Kaiser gave their input and now it's up to baron. Honestly speaking, I hope this character does work out in the end. We need Yeong-Suk to feel tall for once after all xP
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Oddsbod
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@KaiserElectric Thanks! Really appreciate all the critique and advice you guys've given. I've updated Askin's sheet with that in mind, and I think this version of his abilities/moves section should work a bit better. You mentioned that his abilities feel a bit random and inconsistent, like he grabbed them from a random opponent outside of battle, but, to be honest, that's pretty much what I was hoping to get across--like, this is a person with no real identity or style to call his own, and everything he is has to come from other people. But, I can defs see that that gets blotted out, so I'm hoping the current version makes the copying/redirecting schtick feel more like the overarching gimmick of the character. I used Savo's suggestion for the Imprisoner as reference, for formatting. Do you think this update might work?



@Savo Oh shit I hadn't really thought of that, for the Prisoner. Hm. You're right yeah, that shouldn't be an ability any player should have. I feel like the problem is though that no matter how I look at it, the Prisoner is a move he has to have as a side effect of his backstory. Allen had mentioned the existence one OHK moves, so I thought this would be the rough equivalent, but, hmm. I don't think Askin would ever use this in a fight though, he has enough mixed feelings about trapping someone against their will that he wouldn't use it unless it was like an end of the world, immanent threat of death type scenario. But then it still might be an issue letting a player character have that kind of insta-kill ability? Not sure.

(Used some of your other suggestions for his updated ability section, btw, thanks for giving it a look over!)

EDIT: Ooh actually, just had an idea. Going off the theme of Askin as a blank canvas/customizable doll, I might go back over and rename his abilities to all be doll/puppet themed.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by KaiserElectric
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@Oddsbod Much better! I did get the idea from your fighting style that he was very wild and unpredictable (This guy found ONE WEIRD TRICK to beat opponents! Nagas HATE him!), and the new changes reflect that a lot better. Personally I don't think you need to have the caveat of the moves being usable only one time, but if its for story reasons I can see why you're going in that direction.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Punished GN
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@Oddsbod I mostly agree with Kaiser electric (never listen to savo, you'll become a scrublord), and I do think your character is a lot better. Only thing is that I feel as if having the moves being usable one time is just a little... limiting, and might make your character borderline useless at some points (You'll be worse than our joke character). I'm allowing you to raise it a little bit.

But, that's just a quality of life change, and nothing important.
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