@KoL I wanted to leave and regroup. I was saying "Hey, everybody, let's pretend to retreat, and regroup outside and attack again"

And then you stated "If you leave the factory, the battle is over" and so we tried staying, and that didn't go well.

We wanted to retreat to outside the factory, up until the point you said "retreating loses the battle".

Retreating means running away from the battle. There's no way Eos would let them fall back and regroup.

Anytime you ask to retreat you are asking to flee the battle, otherwise, if you just wanna regroup, you can do it through IC actions, not theoretical questions about fake surrender.

What you asked me was to forfeit. The next time you want to regroup, do it with IC actions, not asking if you can leave the battle.

Eh, ya gotta pick your battles Gecko. Unfortunately, this is another one we can't win.

I'm only pointing facts. Not even a single word of what I said is meant to "crush the opposition". Regardless of that, you know when you are losing a debate when you have to start nitpicking topics that have already been explained more than once.

The GMs behaved badly? Yes we did, because we aren't perfect, we can commit mistakes like any human being. Nevertheless, we acknowledged out errors and are working as much as we can to make up for them. Just try to point me a single time we haven't been transparent and tried to alert the players about bad choices in this RP in the last semester, or so?

I acknowledge that I was wrong in a lot of things, but you all trying to pull a straw man will not result on anything. I'm doing what I can to make things interesting and so is Windel? Why is it that whenever you all have to complain about something you bring back the old issues, instead of leaving them be, like we are? You'll me not see us complaining about your past mistakes, you could as well try to do the same.

@KoL Does Eos know whether or not everyone was going to turn around after they left? Does she have lie-detection/mind reading? If so, please tell, because that will make Miyu's situation so much better.

Eos: Because you're such a chronic traitor, we're installing a kill-switch.
Miyu: I don't remember doing that.
Eos: Hmm.. Ok, you don't. What do you remember?
Miyu: I fought a dude named Henry, and a guy named Zeruel.
Eos: Hmm... Have you seen our nice propaganda pamphlets?

Does she have lie-detection/mind reading? If so, please tell, because that will make Miyu's situation so much better.

Eos doesn't need to be a mind-reader when she's been watching every battle so far like every other Faction Leader and see Miyu blatantly act like a traitor.

@TheWindel And she doesn't have to be a mind reader to tell this is not the same Miyu. But it will make it harder to miss.

Also interestingly enough:
Miyu the Honorless Blade's record-
Ruthuria: Fought for the angels until unconscious and captured.
Alt-Signia: Fought for the angels until brain damaged, and then attempted to continue helping but made things worse.
Hohenheim: Fought for the angels until killed, even if she did disregard Juno's orders.
Arcadia: Did not participate.
KC-00032: Fought for the angels nominally, she didn't fight anyone, just stole some machina stuff. Which hey, hurts them a tiny little bit. You can't fault her for not picking a fight with Eos.
As much as she whined, she never actually betrayed them until after losing her memory and becoming a completely different person.

@KoL Does Eos know whether or not everyone was going to turn around after they left? Does she have lie-detection/mind reading? If so, please tell, because that will make Miyu's situation so much better.

Eos: Because you're such a chronic traitor, we're installing a kill-switch.
Miyu: I don't remember doing that.
Eos: Hmm.. Ok, you don't. What do you remember?
Miyu: I fought a dude named Henry, and a guy named Zeruel.
Eos: Hmm... Have you seen our nice propaganda pamphlets?

Eos has demonstrated near omniscience previously in the RP. I mentioned that she could notice everything on that battlefield more than once. The logical conclusion is that she would notice them turning their backs instead of leaving and keep the fight on.

As for lie detectors and other stuff. Ar you really, really questioning the skills of a godlike hive mind android? I though it was very clear that you can hide secrets from Eos if you are a Machina or are in Machina territory.

Furthermore, I've never said that the memory loss caused by the Dungeon is permanent, you are assuming that. It's meant to help your characters get a new perspective in life, but as soon as you get away from it the memories will start coming back. The only way for it to cause permanent damage was to stay there for eons, having it slowly rot away your being or if someone is nameless NPC levels of weak, which no player is, even Miyu.

Khaine's posts are the only ones that I saw up to now that got a clear picture of how the Dungeon is supposed to work without the GM's needing to go out of their way to explain anything else for the player controlling such a character. I'm frankly amazed how something like that could happen, yet, if the message got through to at least one person, it means that we didn't fail to communicate our point, but that you failed to understand it are doing a string of assumptions instead of simply asking.

To be fair Gecko, while Fran opened up the idea of Miyu working alongside her and Henry, Fran doesn't trust Miyu either. Traitor or not, she's certainly a wild card who's undergone some sort of change nearly every time she's seen on the battlefield, and even her appearance at KR is strange simply because all she did was loot some unspecified stuff and bailed. And Fran isn't the sharpest axe in the armory, but even she thinks something is up with Miyu, and while she doesn't know what it is, she'll keep Miyu on close watch and try to figure out what's really going down.

@KoL
I would like to interject with two statements.

First, a collective verbal hug. It seems there are upset people, and there should not be. Nobody should be blaming people.

While I'm glad that I got the Dungeon's theme correct this was also partially by chance. People all add/subtract their own things from your explanation, due to the imperfect way in which words translate to ideas. So sometimes people have different interpretations of something, which you can then either encourage or discourage.

Overall it seems to me like people feel like their characters aren't being useful. So I recommend the player caste finds something really big and ugly (maybe Helena? Not sure how strong she's supposed to be) and beat the crap out of it. Big fight, lots of people, and one of the big bad vassal-tier beings actually being defeated. Or at least damaged.

Oh well, that's just what I think would be cool at this point.

I would like to interject with two statements.

First, a collective verbal hug. It seems there are upset people, and there should not be. Nobody should be blaming people.

You're new here, so you might not really get the memo. But blaming other people for failing to meet expectations or not seeing eye-to-eye is par on course here. "Compromise" is made when "Communication" is done, which is being tenuously engaged here. For better or for worse.

Overall it seems to me like people feel like their characters aren't being useful. So I recommend the player caste finds something really big and ugly (maybe Helena? Not sure how strong she's supposed to be) and beat the crap out of it. Big fight, lots of people, and one of the big bad vassal-tier beings actually being defeated. Or at least damaged.

Well of course, that's what's going on IC right now. Or at least attempted, in some cases. The only problem is that the ones we do wanna fight we either can't logically get to (Could I just teleport to Helena?) or are at least another player, so one-shotting them is a big no-no. And we'll just be jacking off on the track if we imagine up some big baddie from our past that our character eventually defeats on their own terms, because it's easy to beat yourself off. Trying to jerk around someone else on the other hand is the hard part.

@Lucius Cypher
Ah, but communication can be performed in so many ways. The way you write is a reflection of your 'tone', and in conversations 'tone' is everything. I simply asked that people attempt to speak in a more friendly manner. In my experience, this tends to make conversations go by more smoothly.

So then hunt down Helena. I at least have been going straight for her, and intend to at least attempt to sock her in the face. Although Khaine already seems to have a habit of getting into fights above his pay grade.

@KoL Well, right, in that case I can just have this Miyu poof into nothing because it was just a Henry memory, and then continue moping around Heaven. I'm sure the Miyu that does nothing but complain is much preferable to everyone.

@Lucius Cypher Does Fran have any kids?

Well, right, in that case I can just have this Miyu poof into nothing because it was just a Henry memory, and then continue moping around Heaven. I'm sure the Miyu that does nothing but complain is much preferable to everyone.

Well we didn't say Eos would turn Miyu away. Just that she knows Miyu has a history of being a traitor. At this point, Deva might as well give Miyu to Eos in an attempt to straighten her out. And besides.

It's meant to help your characters get a new perspective in life, but as soon as you get away from it the memories will start coming back.

Miyu would just revert back to her old self even after this experience?

@The 42nd Gecko

Well of course. What, you think that everyone she has sex with dies or is infertile? A while back one of the player PC's was actually one of Fran's many bastard half-demon children. She likes to think of it as giving someone the opportunity to live their edgy backstory.

@TheWindel The experience of.. what? Exactly? Fighting Henry and Zeruel? Good fights, but only because she had powers she does not and will never have. It's not like Helena actually told them anything that Miyu didn't already assume was true.

I was using it as an opportunity to take off all her old baggage. Throw it all back on it's rather pointless. In her post wrestling with her demons, she was the one who lost, not won.

@The 42nd Gecko

It's not about the fights Gecko, despite the focus of this RP being battle. It's stuff like Fran opening an alliance with them, or Endian coming to save their booties and also proposing some sort of cooperation. You know, stuff that Miyu did want to try and do, but often faced failures for attempting. But now instead of just wallowing in despair that her dreams of unity will never come true, here are two characters who also share that dream. Granted they're both my characters, but they're also more than the Zero characters who supported Miyu's ambitions previously.

The experience of.. what? Exactly? Fighting Henry and Zeruel? Good fights, but only because she had powers she does not and will never have. It's not like Helena actually told them anything that Miyu didn't already assume was true.

We did say she could have those powers so long as they're tweaked a little.

<Snipped quote by The 42nd Gecko>

As I recall, Henry was able to do a number on Juno as well. As for Eos, Henry sat down and cried in front of her.

Correction: Henry survived against Juno for like 2 posts then he got kicked into a mountain after she tore open his pocket dimension and he panicked like a child whose favorite toys were being thrown into an incinerator.

As for Eos, Henry started throwing a tantrum because he put up a barrier so strong, in your own words "the barrier that even the combined might of all of the Nexus would likely have a hard time breaking" and destroyed it with a touch. He felt a little outgunned by that and he panicked once more, not knowing how to properly respond to that other than throwing a tantrum.

Not complaining, well maybe a little, but I wanted to recap exactly how that had went down.

@floodtalon

You're choosing now to point out inconsistencies? I thought you were just observing; in any case, correction acknowledged.

@TheWindel Mhmm. Do tell what tweaks would be necessary.

Somehow I'm betting at the end of them I'll have: Anti-Friction, Mantle, and Telepathy. Whoo. Yes. I'll definitely be able to... Fight Lillian. When she's not in her mech suit.

Mhmm. Do tell what tweaks would be necessary.

Somehow I'm betting at the end of them I'll have: Anti-Friction, Mantle, and Telepathy. Whoo. Yes. I'll definitely be able to... Fight Lillian. When she's not in her mech suit.

That's something the GMs will need to think on and discuss with you later at some point.