Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Alexei
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Reaction speed of a professional boxer is quite vague. That could really mean anything depending on the boxer. Secondly as much as that might be doable, those few seconds change a great deal and should influence your ability to react to an attack when adjusting stance and switching the weapon to a hand.

I also play by the rule that everyone is equal in terms of physical capability until you can get your opponent to state otherwise.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Alexei

A professional boxer must meet certain criteria to achieve a significant degree of success in the ring. That includes slipping and weaving through punches, being able to predict an opponent's attacks based off of their body language.
It's not scarcely as vague as having no aforementioned reflexes listed, and in fight writing, the profile is God. If it isn't on the profile, you don't give it to someone anyways. I also specifically stated Kull's physical stats and provided examples of his prowess.

A few seconds is a long time in a fight. And, I suppose I should mention it a third time, it takes Kull less than a second for the switch up. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be. Fighters change stance mid-blows all the time. Want videos of that as well? Been awhile since I dug up the Machida fights.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Alexei

A professional boxer must meet certain criteria to achieve a significant degree of success in the ring. That includes slipping and weaving through punches, being able to predict an opponent's attacks based off of their body language.
It's not scarcely as vague as having no aforementioned reflexes listed, and in fight writing, the profile is God. If it isn't on the profile, you don't give it to someone anyways. I also specifically stated Kull's physical stats and provided examples of his prowess.

A few seconds is a long time in a fight. And, I suppose I should mention it a third time, it takes Kull less than a second for the switch up. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be. Fighters change stance mid-blows all the time. Want videos of that as well? Been awhile since I dug up the Machida fights.


I'll go ahead and supply some more reference material. It's honestly one of the simplest facets of combat, switching your stance. It's fundamental, pure basics. You'd be hard pressed to find a serious fighter who can't do that efficiently.



And some good old Machida, one of the most prolific fighters known for mixing up angles and stances in fractions of a second.



Ah, but I made direct comparisons to boxing, not MMA. Though, that was merely Kull's reflexes. His techniques are up to my personal discretion so long as he has the time and opportunity to perform them, which he did, given how he predicted what his opponent would do. Kull estimated Sel would do /before/ she did it, and in her following post, she did indeed meet his expectations.

Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Alexei
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@Alexei

A professional boxer must meet certain criteria to achieve a significant degree of success in the ring. That includes slipping and weaving through punches, being able to predict an opponent's attacks based off of their body language.


That's still not giving an actual reaction time. Just stating you can react quickly means little to nothing in T1. Even if you had a listed time, it would be a negligible thing. In T1 all characters are the same in physical capability.

If not, Eiji could literally tear through Kull. Given that his musculature is crafted from interwoven cabon nanotubes, called bucky paper. If we want to go through the fluff in a character sheet as if it means anything.

On the mention of reading body language, I find the concept laughable in the way I have seen it used. So far it might as well be highly predictive precognition. Kull has consistently dodged everything and in RM that is simply a deal breaker. Its unrealistic and to the point of metagaming.

@Alexei

It's not scarcely as vague as having no aforementioned reflexes listed, and in fight writing, the profile is God. If it isn't on the profile, you don't give it to someone anyways. I also specifically stated Kull's physical stats and provided examples of his prowess.


No its actually worse than not stating it at all. It is incredibly vague, which alliws you to manipulate it as much as someone without it. Only difference is that you can point to your profile, and pretend it says anything of real value in regards to it. So no, in write fighting the profile is not God. It is only ever useful in regards to spells. Physical ability is pointless. Especially when your charactee can combine strength and speed with no trade off. Which isn't realistic.

You specifically stated a vague descriptor. Unless you want to lay out hard data its useless.

@Alexei

A few seconds is a long time in a fight. And, I suppose I should mention it a third time, it takes Kull less than a second for the switch up. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be. Fighters change stance mid-blows all the time. Want videos of that as well? Been awhile since I dug up the Machida fights.


That's pretty fast. I have to call shenanigans. It might not be complicated but less than a second is also vague. How much less than a second? How fast is your opponent moving in relative to you? If these are not defined clearly by either side that is an exercise in uselessness. All the time yes, but irl there are certain factors at play not at all present in text based combat. Especially, as I stated, when such is ill defined.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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That's still not giving an actual reaction time. Just stating you can react quickly means little to nothing in T1. Even if you had a listed time, it would be a negligible thing. In T1 all characters are the same in physical capability.

If not, Eiji could literally tear through Kull. Given that his musculature is crafted from interwoven cabon nanotubes, called bucky paper. If we want to go through the fluff in a character sheet as if it means anything.

On the mention of reading body language, I find the concept laughable in the way I have seen it used. So far it might as well be highly predictive precognition. Kull has consistently dodged everything and in RM that is simply a deal breaker. Its unrealistic and to the point of metagaming.


No, they aren't. That's absolutely, incredibly wrong. Stats DO matter, that's why they exist in T1. Not all characters have the same physical ability either. That statement is immensely false. Just because I actually state the physical ability of one of my characters doesn't mean someone who has a vague profile can match every pound he can lift or every meter he can run. No, no, no.

No its actually worse than not stating it at all. It is incredibly vague, which alliws you to manipulate it as much as someone without it. Only difference is that you can point to your profile, and pretend it says anything of real value in regards to it. So no, in write fighting the profile is not God. It is only ever useful in regards to spells. Physical ability is pointless. Especially when your charactee can combine strength and speed with no trade off. Which isn't realistic.

You specifically stated a vague descriptor. Unless you want to lay out hard data its useless.


Nope. I was more precise in terms of stated stats than my opponent. I'm not insinuating anything negative by stating that, it's a simple fact. More information is just that, more information. It does not create more room to be vague, it minimizes it. I have no idea where you're drawing these far out conclusions from. Why are you here? Where are you from, that you think physical capacity has no bearing in RM? It's outrageous to even think that.

That's pretty fast. I have to call shenanigans. It might not be complicated but less than a second is also vague. How much less than a second? How fast is your opponent moving in relative to you? If these are not defined clearly by either side that is an exercise in uselessness. All the time yes, but irl there are certain factors at play not at all present in text based combat. Especially, as I stated, when such is ill defined.


Again, I defined my profile and actions with meticulous care. Note that you keep insisting on the value of "a few seconds", which matches "less than a second" in terms of your implied intentional vagueness. The difference isn't negligible, it's just so miniscule that I'm implying that Kull will be ready to hit his opponent before she closes the distance, as was stated ad nauseum multiple times, before she had even posted the action itself.

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Alexei

Also, do note that although your statements may hold bearing in a less competitive atmosphere, on this site and in ranked matches in particular, the profile is indeed God. If it isn't on the profile, you cannot use it. It also doesn't help that you arrived a few days ago at 'Tristwich's behest'. You have no history here and you're closely affiliated with the competitor. You're not qualified to give your opinion in this particular fight in light of those circumstances, only proven, unbiased judges are. I'm not saying you aren't trustworthy or knowledgeable in your areas of expertise, but this isn't a matter you should be involving yourself in.

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Alexei
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@Alexei

Also, do note that although your statements may hold bearing in a less competitive atmosphere, on this site and in ranked matches in particular, the profile is indeed God. If it isn't on the profile, you cannot use it. It also doesn't help that you arrived a few days ago at 'Tristwich's behest'. You have no history here and you're closely affiliated with the competitor. You're not qualified to give your opinion in this particular fight in light of those circumstances, only proven, unbiased judges are. I'm not saying you aren't trustworthy or knowledgeable in your areas of expertise, but this isn't a matter you should be involving yourself in.



My statement holds bearing in a far more competative setting. Far far more. If that is indeed true, your ability is too vague to be of any use. If this is RM I think there needs to be some real hard numbers. Otherwise it creates a big hole in the integrity of the fight. I will state one thing here. There is no such thing as unbiased. In fact, I should be a judge in consideration to one from this site. To provide a balance against nepotism. Two judges are better than one. Actually you are stating I am untrustworthy which is fine. You are too. There needs to be a clear overhall of T1 rules. Abilities must have clear definition if this is the case.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Alexei

You're repeating yourself. If I was the one being vague, then why am I supplying more information? You aren't making any sense. It's called 'Realistic Melee' for a reason. We use facts, references, and stats to define what a character can and cannot do. We don't leave it up to discretion, that's just asking for no limits fallacies.

There's nothing competitive about leaving physical stats in a RM fight at the door. Here's the thing. You arrived here three days ago with the competitor, you're very clearly her friend, and you're stating that "There's no such thing as bias" to try and convince me that you should judge this fight. Everything you say is a contradiction, I can scarcely fathom it.

Even if you had a listed time, it would be a negligible thing. In T1 all characters are the same in physical capability.


Abilities must have clear definition if this is the case.


Okay. Now, taking that into account, look at your friend's CS.

@Doc Doctor
Name: Selandra Windfall

Nickname: Spelldrinker
Age: 227 (appears 28)

Race: Elf

Ethnicity: Genisarian

Occupation: Gladiator/Mercenary

Sexuality: Bi

Marital Status: single

Physical Appearance:

Height: 6'9

Weight: 168

Hair Color: White (starts to turn blue the more mana she absorbs)

Eye Color: Radiant Orbs of blue white energy

Build: Muscular but lean

Marks or Scars: Complex designed blue tattoos that one could mistake for circuit paths which snake along her whole body, with the lines ending at her palms, feet, corners of her eyes and her bottom lip which to direct the mana she absorbs, allowing it to be more efficient when she uses that absorbed energy to increase the strength of her individual limbs. She also has various scars along her face and body from years of gladiator combat.

Armor: Blue and grey plate armor that is technologically enhanced so that it is physically linked with her body, allowing the armor to take a portion of the mana Selandra absorbs and recycles it in the form of mana gems that appear inlaid into the armor. These gems are able to be consumed later if Selandra is unable to find a source of mana to consume. It is elegant armor, forged by elves allowing it to be tough but lightweight, allowing Selandra to be quick and agile in combat. She also still holds onto the collar used on her during her time as a slave. She wears it at night to help her sleep.

Weapons: One Trident, one weighted net enchanted to expand allowing it to ensare an opponent of any size, one zweihander, two daggers, hidden blades in her boots and gauntlets.

Skills:

Elven Senses

Expert agility

The ability to absorb the magical energies from spells and enchanted items, the energy being used to enhance the power of her limbs. Spells are dissolved and enchanted items are broken down into dust. If she consumes too much mana, her body runs the risk of exploding.

History: Born into slavery, Selandra never knew a life outside the arena walls. At a young age her addiction to mana was exploited by her masters, as she was forced to sneak into gladiator's rooms as a child and siphon the magic away from their equipment. As she grew older she too became a gladiator, but still she was a slave. At some point, she realized she wanted more and bought her freedom. Now she wanders, hoping to find that purpose.

Will she be acceptable if I remove all of the magical abilities?


NO mentioned physical abilities, outside of simply stating that she's 'fast and agile'. How much bearing does that have in realistic terms when your character is 6'9" and 228 pounds? Not gonna go there. This is RM, but I won't try to dictate how she should write her own profile. That's why I didn't nag her to specify reach and lifting strength. Benefit of the doubt. It states her height, weight, and build, and that's it.
Now, look at my CS.



Much, MUCH more detail. If you were even remotely honest, it wouldn't be me you were criticizing for vagueness but your own friend. Of course I know her style is different, she comes from a different site. I'm accommodating that, not trying to inform her she's doing everything wrong. She's not doing things wrong, just differently. Now please let an official judge this thread. Even if they aren't perfect, I should think a bit more subtlety is in order if you're going to try and cheat. I doubt your friend enjoys how you're making them look.

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Tristwich
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I think I would rather have a judge call on this. There's a difference between a boxer in a ring and a gladiator match in the pouring rain.
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@Tristwich
If the rainy setting makes any sort of vital impact on Kull's performance, it'll affect Selandra too. That being said, I wouldn't screw with Mike Tyson in a boxing ring, OR during a rainstorm. For posterity, I want to make it clear one last time that Kull stepping forwards and his adjusting of his grip on his axe is simultaneous, not a step and then a grip swap. He changed his grip as quickly as he took a step forward, and the step intentionally coincided with the trident thrust. The time frame between her thrusting her trident and reaching Kull for a bear hug is when the axe is being swung.

You can apply your summed up counter argument once more for comparison beside my above little statement. Are you fine with @Ridaku judging? Would you like any references?
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Tristwich
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Forget it, I'm not dragging this any farther than it needs to. I guess your character does win and I just end up dead.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Alexei
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@Alexei

You're repeating yourself. If I was the one being vague, then why am I supplying more information? You aren't making any sense. It's called 'Realistic Melee' for a reason. We use facts, references, and stats to define what a character can and cannot do. We don't leave it up to discretion, that's just asking for no limits fallacies.

There's nothing competitive about leaving physical stats in a RM fight at the door. Here's the thing. You arrived here three days ago with the competitor, you're very clearly her friend, and you're stating that "There's no such thing as bias" to try and convince me that you should judge this fight. Everything you say is a contradiction, I can scarcely fathom it.

<Snipped quote by Alexei>

<Snipped quote by Alexei>

Okay. Now, taking that into account, look at your friend's CS.

<Snipped quote by Tristwich>

NO mentioned physical abilities, outside of simply stating that she's 'fast and agile'. How much bearing does that have in realistic terms when your character is 6'9" and 228 pounds? Not gonna go there. This is RM, but I won't try to dictate how she should write her own profile. That's why I didn't nag her to specify reach and lifting strength. Benefit of the doubt. It states her height, weight, and build, and that's it.
Now, look at my CS.



Much, MUCH more detail. If you were even remotely honest, it wouldn't be me you were criticizing for vagueness but your own friend. Of course I know her style is different, she comes from a different site. I'm accommodating that, not trying to inform her she's doing everything wrong. She's not doing things wrong, just differently. Now please let an official judge this thread. Even if they aren't perfect, I should think a bit more subtlety is in order if you're going to try and cheat. I doubt your friend enjoys how you're making them look.


I have to repeat myself because either you cannot comprehend my points, or are simply ignoring them. Which is fine, that's on you. Videos and huudurr reflexes like a boxer, is vague. Point blank. In fact, the only physical trait you define is his strength, mostly his lifting strength but crunching through a cinderblock is a good enough descriptor. That is where it ends and that is my point.

It gives no average speed on which your eyes can register the predicted movement and when the brain sends those signals. You might as well have just put fast and agile which already covers that. So no, you honestly haven't provided much more information.

Oh no friendo, I am criticizing you specifically because you are being dishonest you are straight up lying that you have any more detail in terms of reflex/speed than Trist. If it were up to me, I would force both of you to specifically state what that means. After a vigorous wedgieing.

In short let me summarize: You're reaction time is about as defined as Trist's speed and agility. The only advantage I would give you is the area of strength. Luckily it is not up to me, but I will make my opininion clear. You are shenanigans.

I will leave it at that.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Alexei

I've provided accurate, measurable comparisons, and yes, many martial artists can break cinderblock.

In no way am I lying, just because you say I'm lying. I provided proof, screenies, quotes, and videos to back up my argument. You just ignore that and declare me wrong with no backboard to support those bullets. I'm not shenanigans, you're just full of sh*t. I demonstrated what boxers are capable of with something called evidence. We like to use evidence around here, and not straw man arguments. You're purposefully vague on your points because you know I was factually more specific about physical abilities than my opponent, and you can think of no other way out of this hole you dug for yourself. Go to Google. Look up the question... "How hard can a boxer punch?", or, "How fast can a boxer move?", or "How fast can a boxer react?"
Now line up that result with someone from Kull's weight class. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Mmhmm. There are definable limits there. It's quantifiable. Now go look up, "How fast do you have to be to be quick?"

Yeah, no. Not gonna happen.

Just don't get blindly involved in fights that don't concern you out of your own personal bias and you'll do fine here.

Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Alexei
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@Alexei

I've provided accurate, measurable comparisons, and yes, many martial artists can break cinderblock.


No, no you didn't save for Kull's strength. Btw Robert E. Howard is disappointed in you. You gave me no accurate measurements of his reaction speed except that of a professional boxer. The thing with that is you provide no average time of reaction. Reaction time also varies per boxer, even those in the same weight class.

@Alexei

In no way am I lying, just because you say I'm lying. I provided proof, screenies, quotes, and videos to back up my argument. You just ignore that and declare me wrong with no backboard to support those bullets. I'm not shenanigans, you're just full of sh*t. I demonstrated what boxers are capable of with something called evidence. We like to use evidence around here, and not straw man arguments. You're purposefully vague on your points because you know I was factually more specific about physical abilities than my opponent, and you can think of no other way out of this hole you dug for yourself. Go to Google. Look up the question... "How hard can a boxer punch?", or, "How fast can a boxer move?", or "How fast can a boxer react?"
Now line up that result with someone from Kull's weight class. That wasn't so hard, was it?


You are. You have stated your profile is more detailed. Only strength has a solid definition. Everything else is negligible. Videos do nothing, if you don't have a solid reaction time stated in your profile, I could easily state you have the slowest reactions from a specifically chosen boxer and post a fucking video as evidence, and seeing how you like to play, I would have no qualms scamming you like that if I lacked my moral standard.

Boy, I did provide proof, you actually did for me. In your profile. I already made my case. Provide quantifiable measurments of his reaction speed. Cause AS I HAVE STATED MULTIPLE TIMES, you are vague severely about his reaction speed. You have only been detailed on one point. His strength that's it.

Again, you provided what boxers are capable of, a general idea. Vague. What. Is. The. Actual. Time. Of. His. Reaction? Multiple boxers have different rates of reaction. So by continuing to be a fucking idiot and posting videos of different boxers, you are showing that your reaction time is vague for the soul reason that you can adapt it to a specific opponent. That, my friend, metagaming. Just like how your character doesn't just react, but literally predicts every move his character made. Which is using OOC info IC. Also metagaming. The evidence is in every single one of your posts in this fight.

Lol. You use strawman incorrectly. That's cute.

I have googled all of those, and the answer varies from boxer to boxer. If you don't have a hard number listed for it like you do for Kull's strength, I could easily make it mean what I want it to.

@Alexei

Mmhmm. There are definable limits there. It's quantifiable. Now go look up, "How fast do you have to be to be quick?"


Not in your profile there isn't. How about you look up how not to be a shady turd? Cause from now on, Kull is the slowest boxer of his weight class until you define exactly how fast his reaction speed is with actual numbers.

@Alexei

Yeah, no. Not gonna happen.

Just don't get blindly involved in fights that don't concern you out of your own personal bias and you'll do fine here.


Yeah. Its going to happen.

Hah! No. When I see scummy bullshit like you pulled I am going to call it out. Period. Don't talk to me about bias. Everyone here is biased. From you, to whatever judge on this site.

Best strap up your boots. We're going to throw hands real soon.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Normie
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Best strap up your boots. We're going to throw hands real soon.


Oh we done thrown the gauntlet down now. Clearly the only way to settle this dispute is with a T1 fight. I am on offer as a completely impartial and respectable judge who will make entirely reasonable calls, of course.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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No, no you didn't save for Kull's strength. Btw Robert E. Howard is disappointed in you. You gave me no accurate measurements of his reaction speed except that of a professional boxer. The thing with that is you provide no average time of reaction. Reaction time also varies per boxer, even those in the same weight class.


Well, looks like we got ourselves an average then. As for feats, I supplied those. You choosing not to accept that is your problem, your inability to grasp the difference between a boxer and an untrained man.
That's more detail than just saying you're 'quick'. A child could see that.

You are. You have stated your profile is more detailed. Only strength has a solid definition. Everything else is negligible. Videos do nothing, if you don't have a solid reaction time stated in your profile, I could easily state you have the slowest reactions from a specifically chosen boxer and post a fucking video as evidence, and seeing how you like to play, I would have no qualms scamming you like that if I lacked my moral standard.

Boy, I did provide proof, you actually did for me. In your profile. I already made my case. Provide quantifiable measurments of his reaction speed. Cause AS I HAVE STATED MULTIPLE TIMES, you are vague severely about his reaction speed. You have only been detailed on one point. His strength that's it.

Again, you provided what boxers are capable of, a general idea. Vague. What. Is. The. Actual. Time. Of. His. Reaction? Multiple boxers have different rates of reaction. So by continuing to be a fucking idiot and posting videos of different boxers, you are showing that your reaction time is vague for the soul reason that you can adapt it to a specific opponent. That, my friend, metagaming. Just like how your character doesn't just react, but literally predicts every move his character made. Which is using OOC info IC. Also metagaming. The evidence is in every single one of your posts in this fight.

Lol. You use strawman incorrectly. That's cute.

I have googled all of those, and the answer varies from boxer to boxer. If you don't have a hard number listed for it like you do for Kull's strength, I could easily make it mean what I want it to.


I'm not. Again, you're lying by saying that I'm lying without any foundation for the accusation. If Trist's profile is more detailed than mine, prove it. No, no more trying to swerve around that.
Prove.
It.
Videos are feats, they provide examples of what boxers are capable of. Kull is capable of such things, and it was stated. You say I'm the straw man when you yourself have to scramble for illogical reasons to keep arguing. If your moral standard allows you this much bias, there's nothing I can do for you.

I've already explained how boxers predict moves, and what's more, I myself predicted what my opponent's options were and accounted for them.

"Waaaahhh, that's too broad of a-"

No. No it's not. One can tell the difference between someone committed to tackling you, and someone about to weave away, so kindly stop ignoring every single logical thing I say. I doubt you will though. Right now your brain is like a funnel, got tunnel vision, wanna win but you can't earn it.

If you want actual numbers, then ask for 'em before the fight. Don't come crying when somebody more prepared than you has feats and references. Boxers don't have a set number in their head that lets them see things in slo mo, as you seem to think. This is the last time I'll state it, they've been trained to decipher the core motions of an opponent to predict angles of attack and defence. Variables include how telegraphed a move is, the position the boxer is in, and of course the physical and mental condition of either fighter.

That's why I provide references. Only a dip would think such a thing could be consistently represented in numbers. Want a calculation every move? Okay. Sure. Just ask, but don't let your friend see this level of ignorance in public. Oh. Too late.

What's more, the burden of proof is on me, not you. I provide the references, you don't, unless you'd be happy doing my calculations for me with the help of the judge. Sound good? I'm sure it doesn't.

Yeah. Its going to happen.

Hah! No. When I see scummy bullshit like you pulled I am going to call it out. Period. Don't talk to me about bias. Everyone here is biased. From you, to whatever judge on this site.

Best strap up your boots. We're going to throw hands real soon.


You're the one that warped into a friend's ranked match without knowing what you were getting yourself into. If I call a white cow red, that doesn't make it red. Your sole excuse is now to claim that everyone is biased, when it becomes obvious how little you give a shit.

But okay. Okay. Let's throw down in the hardest way possible, if you think you got what it takes.

Live chat fight, Discord, live judges. Guild Colosseum. No dragging this out, we will get it done with pronto. You can have @Rilla, you can have @LeeRoy, @Ridaku, any proven judge who has references can be game.

discord.gg/Cc98svm

And, I'll give you a handicap. You can have ANY or ALL of your friends as ghost writers. Have 'em give you advice, help you create moves, a few extra minds. I consider that fair, given you have but half a brain yourself. As an added bonus it'd save me the effort of having to later beat everyone you know and love. I'll do it in one swoop.

Hope you don't mind RM or UM.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Mobius
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discord.gg/Cc98svm

And, I'll give you a handicap. You can have ANY or ALL of your friends as ghost writers. Have 'em give you advice, help you create moves, a few extra minds. I consider that fair, given you have but half a brain yourself. As an added bonus it'd save me the effort of having to later beat everyone you know and love. I'll do it in one swoop.


I'll be down to see it. Why don't you have your friend Ridaku unban me?

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@Mobius

Sure.
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@Mobius

Sure.


Well is that going to be today or tomorrow? I want to see this thing happening if it happens there. I would elect a more neutral area anyway.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Mobius

That depends on when Alex is ready, and the judges. I won't have anyone who isn't a judge trying to dictate the fight or argue on my behalf either.

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